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Fermented Oatmeal Soup from Poland - Recipe?

Rakky Threads: 9
Posts: 277
Joined: May 23, 2007
  ♂   Nov 25, 2008, 02:53pm  #

My father is pining for a soup that his mother made when he was a child. Apparently it has fermented oatmeal as its base and is called something like "keselitsa" or "case-a-leetsia" or something like that.
Does anyone know this soup? Do you have a recipe? I'd love to make it for him.
Thanks!


noimmigration     Nov 25, 2008, 04:36pm  #

Fermented Oatmeal Soup - Recipe?

I think your grandmothers "recipe" is a description that tries to hide the fact that she obviously cant cook .

miranda     Nov 25, 2008, 04:39pm  #

noimmigration:

I think your grandmothers "recipe" is a description that tries to hide the fact that she obviously cant cook .

unfortunately you are wrong again. There is a soup like that and a fermented base is used to prepare it.

Rakky, I have heard about it but I have to ask my relatives for a recipe.

noimmigration     Nov 25, 2008, 04:42pm  #

Do you want to borrow my british cookbook ?

miranda     Nov 25, 2008, 06:03pm  #

noimmigration:

Do you want to borrow my british cookbook ?

no thanks. I have my own. There is diversity of food around the world you moron.

Cheery Threads: 14
Posts: 173
Joined: Nov 17, 2008
  ♂   Nov 25, 2008, 09:27pm  #

noimmigration:


Do you want to borrow my british cookbook ?


Borrow me it... I want to have a look inside...

Daisy Threads: 9
Posts: 1,750
Joined: Apr 28, 2007
  ♀   Nov 26, 2008, 12:17am  #

noimmigration:

Do you want to borrow my british cookbook ?

'Easy meals for one' no one else would want to share food with it :(

Rakky Threads: 9
Posts: 277
Joined: May 23, 2007
  ♂   Nov 26, 2008, 06:59am  #

miranda:

I have to ask my relatives for a recipe.

That would be great, Miranda. I really appreciate it. I'd love to surprise my father with something that he enjoyed so much but hasn't eaten in over 70 years.

noimmigration:

she obviously cant cook

Where do you get off insulting the cherished memory of someone's long-lost baba? What the f#@* is the matter with you?

miranda     Nov 26, 2008, 07:24am  #

Rakky:

That would be great, Miranda. I really appreciate it. I'd love to surprise my father with something that he enjoyed so much but hasn't eaten in over 70 years.

I actually had it a long time ago cooked by my grandfather.

Rakky Threads: 9
Posts: 277
Joined: May 23, 2007
  ♂   Nov 26, 2008, 10:38am  #

miranda:

I actually had it a long time ago cooked by my grandfather.

On our trip to Poland earlier this year my father got to see a woman preparing it, and enjoyed it with the meal we were served. You could really tell how much it was bringing him back and meant to him.
Do you remember how to pronounce the name of this soup? The best I can phonetically spell out the way I heard it is "kes-uh-leech-uh."

Lir     Nov 26, 2008, 11:31am  #

I've never heard of the soup before but I did some googling.
Oats are used in Polish Easter Soup (Zurek Wielkanocny)
loads of pages for it on the internet but this is one link.
http://www.bigoven.com/132574-Polish-Easter-Soup-(Zurek-Wielkanocny)-r ecipe.html

Then I found the one below ? Not sure if that is what you are looking for ? I have two very old Polish Cookery books, but they are packed away at the moment. If you haven't found the right recipe in a week or two then I'll have a search through my books.

Hope you find what youa re looking for :)



KESELITSA
1/2 box Old Fashioned Quaker Oats

2 T. flour

salt to taste

1 1/2 cakes yeast

1 t. caraway seed

1 quart lukewarm water
Place oats in a large bowl. Crumble the yeast into the oats. Add the flour and then pour in the water. Stir all ingredients well. Cover the bowl and place near a warm spot to ferment all day and night. The following day, gradually add: 3 quarts lukewarm water to the same bowl; stir well. Strain through a sieve, then cook the oats slowly, stirring constantly. Add garlic and caraway seed. Keselitsa is ready when the spoon becomes coated. Serve with boiled or mashed potatoes.

Rakky Threads: 9
Posts: 277
Joined: May 23, 2007
  ♂   Nov 26, 2008, 02:22pm  #

Lir:

KESELITSA

Thanks, Lir! This might be it. Although I think he said his Mom had to ferment the stuff longer than one day - maybe 2 or 3? And I thought it was soup - this sounds like the output is basically oatmeal. Unless I'm missing something here. How does the strained, slowly cooked oatmeal become a soup? Can any cooks out there help me more with this?
Thanks again, Lir - I look forward to hearing more from you on this.

Lir     Nov 26, 2008, 02:32pm  #

Rakky:

I look forward to hearing more from you on this.



I just found this recipe below......I think it is a Ukranian dish ?

Anyways, good luck with it :)

"keselitsa" - thin soup made from oats.
Recipe: take 1 kg of oats and mill with shell (husk) on [ oatmeal is a good substitute ], then add yeast or bread starter ("kvasok") dough left from previous bread making. Add 3 liters of warm water to each litter of oat flour. Keep it covered for 8 - 10 hrs in a warm place. Following the fermentation process, strain it through a sieve (screen), in order to remove oat shell, and cook it on medium heat. Add salt, caraway seed, and fat (bacon, oil or butter) to your taste. During lent keselytsia is prepared with the flax oil, while on other days it is served with bacon or butter. It is mostly consumed with a side dish of potatoes.

Rakky Threads: 9
Posts: 277
Joined: May 23, 2007
  ♂   Nov 26, 2008, 03:17pm  #

Lir:

this recipe below

Interesting. This one is made with freshly milled oat flour, then strained just to remove the oat shells. Which leads me to think that if you start with oatmeal instead, you'd toss the actual oats after straining them and make the soup from the liquid. This certainly requires further investigation.
Thanks again. Lir.

Lir     Edited by: Lir  Nov 26, 2008, 03:19pm  #

Rakky:

Thanks again. Lir.



You're very welcome. We'll get there eventually :)

It does look like this is the right recipe though.


Where did your father come from originally ? It may be that he was in a part of Poland that is now the Ukraine and that's why not that many Polish people have heard of it. Just a guess .


This is the link where I got the oup recipe from, you may find it of some interest ?

http://www.busternus.com/ukraine/43eng.html

Polonius3 Threads: 1,217
Posts: 7,151
Joined: Apr 11, 2008
  ♂   Nov 26, 2008, 03:22pm  #

KESELITSA is not a Polish spelling. Presumably it is derived from kisiel (pronounced: KEy-shell) -- a potato-starch gel, pudding or thick soup) and would have to spelt something like kisielica? It must be a highly local concoction. Has anyone seen the word in print?

Lir     Nov 26, 2008, 03:37pm  #

Polonius3:

Has anyone seen the word in print?



It does seem to be more Ukranian than Polish ?

miranda     Edited by: miranda  Nov 26, 2008, 03:39pm  #

Lir found the right recipe. Good job. I tried and could not find one.
Polonius3:

Presumably it is derived from kisiel



nope, t has nothing to do with kisiel.

Keesylycya (Lemko term and this it where Rakky's father is from is how I remember it is derived form Kiszony - pickled/ fermented.

Lir     Nov 26, 2008, 04:15pm  #

miranda:

Good job.


Thanks Miranda :)
miranda:


Lemko term and this it where Rakky's father is from



That's quite interesting. So many different Polish dishes and it's fascinating to find where they originated from. Wish someone would write a book on it all before all the information gets lost when the older generation are no longer here.


:)

miranda     Nov 26, 2008, 04:17pm  #

Lir:

So many different Polish dishes and it's fascinating to find where they originated from.

it is not Polish but Ukrainian since lemkos are considered Ukies. In my books anyways.
Lir:

Wish someone would write a book on it all before all the information gets lost when the older generation are no longer here.

It has been documented for sure.

Lir     Nov 26, 2008, 04:26pm  #

miranda:

it is not Polish but Ukrainian



Yes, I agree. I did say that it was Ukranian in a previous post. That's how I managed to find the recipe.

But quite a few older generation Polish people have food that was prepared by their Mothers and depending where they lived, depends on the variation they are used too.

It's like that soup, it was really difficult to find and there are only really one or two entries on the internet for it. It's things like that would perhaps be good to document, with a bit of a narrative with it. Make for an interesting read I think.

:)

miranda     Nov 26, 2008, 04:37pm  #

Lir:


But quite a few older generation Polish people have food that was prepared by their Mothers and depending where they lived, depends on the variation they are used too.

well, you are right and when it comes to soup base for beet soup and zurek, traditionally women in those days used to make a fermented base, so the taste was naturally sour and I actually think is is healthy for you.

Nowdays, in order to achieve the sour taste, people use leon juice or other things, but it is not the same. I think that respected cooks still use the fermented base because I have seen some recipes being revamped in Polish magazines, it just doesn't happen that often. It is the same with bread such a sour dough bread which calls for the fermented base as well, because it makes a huge difference in taste but it is time consuming.

Rakky Threads: 9
Posts: 277
Joined: May 23, 2007
  ♂   Nov 27, 2008, 10:53am  #

miranda:

lemkos are considered Ukies. In my books anyways.

A common misperception. Lemkos are one sub-group of Carpatho-Rusyns (see www.lemko.org for some more information on this). We are our own distinct nationality with our own language, culture and customs.

Lir     Nov 27, 2008, 01:54pm  #

Rakky:

Lemkos



The page where I got the recipe from has several opening paragraphs about Lemkos ! Did you manage to read it ?


http://www.busternus.com/ukraine/43eng.html


I'd never heard of Lemkos before so found it very interesting. Maybe you could tell us a little bit more about them ?


:)

Rakky Threads: 9
Posts: 277
Joined: May 23, 2007
  ♂   Nov 28, 2008, 07:23am  #

Thank you, Lir. I have seen these woodcuts and the related text many times - they are gorgeous and informative. But within the text lies some of the controversy - are Lemkos (Rusyns) just a sub-group of Ukrainians? Regardless of where we live, I believe the answer to be "no." We are our own people. Many of us are very confused as to our true ethnicity. My own father had no idea what he was until I did the research nearly 6 years ago. That means he lived 78 years of his life not knowing his proud and tragic Rusyn ancestry. There is far too much for me to tell here - I strongly urge you to start with the website I provided in an earlier post and go on from there. That way you can come to your own conclusions. I know that my paternal ancestral roots are in Poland, but I also know that they are not Polish. Nor are they Ukrainian. I am Rusyn, and very proud of it.

babcha     Jan 3, 2009, 02:08pm  #

HI,
My family has been eating a fermented Polish soup for vigilia for generations. It is my great-grandmother's recipe, we think for her hometown. The soup is fermented for three days, strained and flavored with garlic and wild mushrooms (the REALLY smaleey really expensive ones). It is served over a boiled potato, and is yummy. Is this the recipe you are interested in?

Babcha

babcha     Jan 3, 2009, 02:10pm  #

My family calls the soup "zhood". I found your thread because I was looking for the spelling! Which I still haven't found.

Babcha

Rakky Threads: 9
Posts: 277
Joined: May 23, 2007
  ♂   Jan 16, 2009, 07:12am  #

babcha:
really expensive ones). It is served over a boiled potato, and is yummy.

It sure sounds like it. Do you have a recipe that you can share?

temp     Jan 17, 2009, 09:54am  #

My Mother is Ukranian and has been asking me about this "soup" for weeks...after lots of looking, I finally came upon this site. Very Helpful!! (Originally she thought it was a Christmas eve dish since that is when she recalled eating it...never found a recipe associated with Ukranian Christmas dishes...so just more looking) Her Ukranian relatives are also interested for a recipe so I will be checking back....Thanks for all the leg work...really helpful.

Piorun Threads: -
Posts: 789
Joined: Nov 11, 2007
  ♂   Edited by: Piorun  Jan 17, 2009, 10:50am  #

Is this what all the fuss is about? It’s a Lemko style very thick (Żur owsiany), Polish name is (kieselycia).

lisiełycia

You can find the recipe Here

BTW it is a Christmas eve dish.





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