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Is carp indigenous to Israel?


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Polonius3Threads: 1,005
Posts: 4,833
Joined: Apr 11, 08 ♂ 		 Jan 10, 10, 10:34    #1
The discussion on this forum may have suggested to the underinformed that carp is an exclsuvely or primarily Polish speciality. In fact, apart from Oriental types, America's biggest carp eaters are Jews. Carp flesh is a tradional ingredient of ‘gefüllte Fisch’ (spelling?) -- fish forcemeat balls.
My question is: was carp indigenous to Palestine/Israel and the Middle East or was it something Jews picked up in Central Europe? Isn't much of the food widely regarded as Jewish (kreplach, blintzes, latkes, borscht and beetroot in general, horeradish, pickled herring, etc.) of East-Central European origin?
polkamaniacThreads: 1
Posts: 514
Joined: Aug 2, 09  Pictures: 1 ♂ 		Edited by: polkamaniac  Jan 10, 10, 15:23    #2
Originally from Asia,for thousands of years,the Chinese have used Carp for food, as a pond ornament, and for sport fishing. Since the beginning of her time with people, She has been
surrounded by mythology.
The Chinese viewed Carp as a symbol of fertility since She was a prolific breeder. Carp were honored for their courage and persistence. Koreans revered Carp as their symbol of youth, bravery, strength, and wealth. Meanwhile in Japan, Carp represented courage and endurance. Japanese boys were encouraged to be warriors like Carp.
In Europe, Carp also had many associations for people. For the Jews, Carp became a symbol of the Sabbath.

Jews first farmed carp in Poland. Carp became a traditional Sabbath dish. In Eastern Europe, Carp was served as the traditional main course for Christmas dinner.
Originating in Asia, Carp was transported to many countries.
yehudiThreads: 1
Posts: 871
Joined: Jul 27, 08 ♂ 		 Jan 11, 10, 12:13    #3
Polonius3:
My question is: was carp indigenous to Palestine/Israel and the Middle East

No.
Polonius3:
or was it something Jews picked up in Central Europe?

Yes.
polkamaniacThreads: 1
Posts: 514
Joined: Aug 2, 09  Pictures: 1 ♂ 		 Jan 11, 10, 14:32    #4
I think me answer clarified this question quite cleary.Yes or no????
joepilsudskiThreads: 44
Posts: 2,529
Joined: Apr 27, 07  Pictures: 1 ♂ 		 Jan 11, 10, 15:51    #5
sacarp

This carp is from South Africa

Ready for 'gefilte fish'...
PlasticPoleThreads: 10
Posts: 5,429
Joined: May 28, 09 ♀ 		 Jan 11, 10, 16:44    #6
yehudi:
No.

In the bible, people talk about fish a lot. What kind of fish were they?
BrutalButcherThreads: 1
Posts: 623
Joined: Nov 10, 09 ♂ 		 Jan 11, 10, 17:14    #7
PlasticPole:
What kind of fish were they?

How could we possibly know :(
PlasticPoleThreads: 10
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Joined: May 28, 09 ♀ 		 Jan 11, 10, 17:15    #8
Er...based on fish in the region now?
BrutalButcherThreads: 1
Posts: 623
Joined: Nov 10, 09 ♂ 		 Jan 11, 10, 17:21    #9
THose were different times...
ShortHairThugThreads: -
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Joined: May 1, 09 ♂ 		Edited by: ShortHairThug  Jan 11, 10, 17:29    #10
Isn’t Tilapia also known as St. Peter's fish. Surely this has to be indigenous to Israel.
PlasticPoleThreads: 10
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Joined: May 28, 09 ♀ 		 Jan 11, 10, 17:30    #11
Maybe Carp's one of those fishes found on every continent?
ShortHairThugThreads: -
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Joined: May 1, 09 ♂ 		 Jan 11, 10, 17:37    #12
The Sea of Galilee has small indigenous fish species which supposed to evolve from big carp common in the Sea of Galilee.
PlasticPoleThreads: 10
Posts: 5,429
Joined: May 28, 09 ♀ 		Edited by: PlasticPole  Jan 11, 10, 17:38    #13
That's interesting information. Carp is a universal species of fish, which makes it the perfect symbol of Christianity, a religion that will embrace all mankind and is truly universal. If we were to discover aliens from another planet, Christians would tell them about Jesus and try to get them to join their church.
yehudiThreads: 1
Posts: 871
Joined: Jul 27, 08 ♂ 		 Jan 11, 10, 17:51    #14
ShortHairThug:
The Sea of Galilee has small indigenous fish species which supposed to evolve from big carp common in the Sea of Galilee.

All I know about is St Peters Fish (which we call "Amnun") and I've also seen catfish near the restaurants on the shore, lapping up what falls in the water. But we don't eat catfish. There are also little fish that nibble at you when you swim there, but I don't know what they're called.
PlasticPole:
Carp is a universal species of fish, which makes it the perfect symbol of Christianity,

So I guess an appropriate symbol for christianity could be Gefilte Fish made of carp.
PlasticPoleThreads: 10
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Joined: May 28, 09 ♀ 		Edited by: PlasticPole  Jan 11, 10, 17:55    #15
yehudi:
So I guess an appropriate symbol for christianity could be Gefilte Fish made of carp.

I don't see why not. They symbolize the very first miracle Jesus performed, the Miracle of the two fish and five loaves feeding the crowd of five thousand. It is what Christianity's main role is, that of nourishment and charity.
ShortHairThugThreads: -
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Joined: May 1, 09 ♂ 		 Jan 11, 10, 17:58    #16
yehudi:
There are also little fish that nibble at you when you swim there, but I don't know what they're called.

The St Peters Fish was a joke, the small fish which I don’t know the name was supposed to be a kin to carp. I know I was reading about it long time ago but don’t know much more then that about it.
wildroverThreads: 180
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Joined: Jun 7, 07 ♂ 		 Jan 11, 10, 18:05    #17
yehudi:
There are also little fish that nibble at you when you swim

No , thats a shark you are thinking of there...!
aphrodisiacThreads: 22
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Joined: Apr 15, 09 ♀ 		 Jan 11, 10, 18:50    #18
yehudi:
So I guess an appropriate symbol for christianity could be Gefilte Fish made of carp.

ha, ha..............;)
joepilsudskiThreads: 44
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Joined: Apr 27, 07  Pictures: 1 ♂ 		Edited by: joepilsudski  Jan 11, 10, 21:18    #19
aphrodisiac:
yehudi:
So I guess an appropriate symbol for christianity could be Gefilte Fish made of carp.

ha, ha..............;)

Better yet, for Judaism, oven baked carp...Now, myself, I do not care for this type of fish.
polkamaniacThreads: 1
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Joined: Aug 2, 09  Pictures: 1 ♂ 		 Jan 14, 10, 04:11    #20
I woudn't eat carp myself but give me Trout----its the best !!!
scrappletonThreads: -
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Joined: Apr 28, 09 ♂ 		 Jan 14, 10, 04:22    #21
What American here has eaten carp?? I want to know what it tastes like. That Scottie dude was so repulsed by it he just changed the damn subject when I brought it up, haha.
polkamaniacThreads: 1
Posts: 514
Joined: Aug 2, 09  Pictures: 1 ♂ 		 Jan 15, 10, 00:00    #22
Americans don't eat carp-it's a bottom feeder and has a bad taste-In Europe and Asia,Carp are bred specifically for human consumption.I remember the Polish calling the ponds " Stawy"
sledzThreads: 29
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Joined: Sep 19, 06 ♂ 		 Jan 15, 10, 01:07    #23
scrappleton:
What American here has eaten carp??

Hec No!
polkamaniac:
Americans don't eat carp-it's a bottom feeder

Its considered a dirty fish here
scrappletonThreads: -
Posts: 1,365
Joined: Apr 28, 09 ♂ 		 Jan 15, 10, 03:06    #24
sledz:
Hec No!

C'mon man, you know you've hooked many a carp out of the Chicago River or something. Put that dough ball on there. Poles might cook them up good but I couldn't eat it , no way.. it's in the whole "sewer rat may taste like pumpkin pie" realm.
f stopThreads: 33
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Joined: Dec 9, 09  Pictures: 1 ♀ 		Edited by: f stop  Jan 15, 10, 03:11    #25
BTW, Asian carp DNA was found in water sample of Chicago river (no sighting of the fish tho, they say) and now 'authorities' in charge of these matters are panicking and proposing closing off some important waterway??
scrappletonThreads: -
Posts: 1,365
Joined: Apr 28, 09 ♂ 		 Jan 15, 10, 03:16    #26
f stop:
BTW, Asian carp

The dreaded Asian carp! Hillbillies in Arkansas brought them in to eat algae or something and the fish swam up the Mississippi and now might ruin the Great Lakes fishing industry? I don't see how though, carp aren't really predators.
polkamaniacThreads: 1
Posts: 514
Joined: Aug 2, 09  Pictures: 1 ♂ 		Edited by: polkamaniac  Jan 15, 10, 14:11    #27
there is a worst threat from the "Gobi" brought in by ships into the great lakes inside their ballast tanks.
szarlotkaThreads: 14
Posts: 3,349
Joined: Feb 20, 07 ♂ 		 Jan 15, 10, 14:19    #28
scrappleton:
I don't see how though, carp aren't really predators.

It's their size and rapid reproduction rates. They will reduce the food available to indigenous species. Carp will eat small fish occasionally too.
SashaThreads: 2
Posts: 1,597
Joined: Apr 19, 08  Pictures: 1 ♂ 		 Jan 15, 10, 14:55    #29
Polonius3:
In fact, apart from Oriental types, America's biggest carp eaters are Jews.

Russians like carp too. :) Karpov is very popular last name in Russia and the former SU.

Diter Stein with the biggest carp.
carp

I prefer its smaller brothers - crucians.

a crucian
sledzThreads: 29
Posts: 3,202
Joined: Sep 19, 06 ♂ 		Edited by: sledz  Jan 15, 10, 15:06    #30
scrappleton:
C'mon man, you know you've hooked many a carp out of the Chicago River

I dont think anything could live in the Chicago River..lol

Ya, Ive caught them in ponds before, nasty looking things!

f stop:
BTW, Asian carp DNA was found in water sample of Chicago river (no sighting of the fish tho, they say)

Ive heard a report that one was found in Lake Erie, not sure if its true but I hope not.

f stop:
and now 'authorities' in charge of these matters are panicking and proposing closing off some important waterway??

The state of Minnesota and Michigan are trying to get an injunction to close down the Illinois shipping canal.

scrappleton:
I don't see how though, carp aren't really predators

Its coz theyll eat everything, the whole food chain is in jeopardy!
http://asiancarp.org/Documents/AsianCarp.pdf




We have electric barriers that kill the fish but when it floods all that extra water gets released into Lake Michigan.

Im for saving the Great Lakes before a shipping canal, they will just have to truck stuff into Chicago, Not that its really going to matter because the Illinois river has tributaties that run through Indiana and eventually into the lake.

scrappleton:
Hillbillies in Arkansas brought them in

Yep dumb rednecks trying to think again



szarlotka:
They will reduce the food available to indigenous species

And our beautiful lakes will be ruined:(

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