Corned beef & Cabbage archtypically Irish?

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Sep 30, 10, 15:46 #1

Many food stereotypes circulate in the USA. For instance, it is widely believed that corned beef & cabbage are the archtypcial Irish dish and it is served in Boston and wherever on St Paddy's day. Oh yes, the Irish allegedly greet one another with 'The top o' the morning to ya'.
The English are thought of as consuming vast quantities of tea & crumpets, although the latter are a seasonal thing. Scones would be more typical, innit?
BTW do pubs in Ireland dye their lager green on St Paddy's?

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Edited by: Teffle Sep 30, 10, 15:52 #2

Polonius3:

BTW do pubs in Ireland dye their lager green on St Paddy's?

Most definitely not - very much an American thing. And yes, it's St Patricks or St Paddys but NEVER St Pattys as some Americans say. It gives me shivers down my spine it's so awful.

Polonius3:

corned beef & cabbage

I've never had it and I've never seen anyone eating it.

Cabbage in general is popular alright but again, can't remember the last time I had it personally though.

And, hand on my heart, except in jest, I have never heard the word "begorrah" or the phrase "top o' the mornin' to ya" uttered in my life. Honestly.

...	Sep 30, 10, 16:01 #3
I make corned beef and cabbage on new years day as well as on St. Patty's day.

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Sep 30, 10, 18:27 #4

We, the poor Irish are being stereotyped again. Begorrah and top of the mornin are only heard on old american B&W movies when the stereotyped drunken paddy falls into shot..As regards corned beef, well it is eaten here, but it wouldn't be considered a typical or national "irish" dish. But what i can see becoming an national dish is "humble pie" and the reason for this is our ingenious goverment and bank officials have made us the laughing stock of not just Europe but of the entire planet. We'll be back to famine times if they keep on the track their on

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Sep 30, 10, 19:17 #5
Corned beef and cabbage is fairly popular in Scotland, though there are many foods that are much more popular. Stovies is a Scottish favourite, as is kedgeree.

trener zolwiaThreads: 5 Posts: 2,786 Joined: Jun 8, 10 ♂	Sep 30, 10, 19:23 #6
Polonius3: the Irish allegedly greet one another with 'The top o' the morning to ya'. Sure. Ain't that what they say on their way to make a withdraw from their pot o' gold? The Irish are funny... an entire country of shamrocks and drunken little people all dressed in green. Lol...

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Sep 30, 10, 19:26 #7
Corned beef and cabbage are for poorer people in Scotland. We don't see cabbage in the same way as Poles yet it is used as an ingredient in some good foods. The Irish put it in colcannon, one of my personal favourites. Check also rumblethedumps as a Scottish food.

SeanBMThreads: 41 Posts: 8,727 Joined: Mar 10, 08 ♂	Edited by: SeanBM Sep 30, 10, 20:44 #8
There is one stereotypes that this thread shows, loud and clear. Americans ask dumb ass questions.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Sep 30, 10, 21:18 #9
Absolutely! Seanny, have you ever made colcannon here? The Poles would really go in for it, I think. Stovies would also be popular.

beckskiThreads: 19 Posts: 2,148 Joined: May 15, 07 MEMBER ♀	Edited by: beckski Sep 30, 10, 21:29 #10
My mom cooked corned beef and cabbage for my daddy. He loved cabbage dishes, no matter what season of the year. I also see it served often at Kosher Delicatessens. A sincere thanks PF, for putting up with me FIVE terrific years, muah!

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Edited by: SeanBM Sep 30, 10, 21:30 #11

Seanus:

have you ever made colcannon here?

Nope.

Probably the only real difference to my cooking and a typical babcia's is, I boil more veg rather than grate it raw.
So long as you don't over boil, the goodness is locked in but raw's just as good.
Oh and I don't do sour the way Poles do, sour cherries make me wince.

And to all the Americans, I have never in my life had meatloaf, shock, horror, terror, despair!

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Sep 30, 10, 21:33 #12
Boiling is more of an Irish/British thing right enough. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rumbledethumps, you should give this a go :)

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Edited by: SeanBM Sep 30, 10, 21:38 #13

Seanus:

Boiling is more of an Irish/British thing right enough.

I think Polish food is majorly influenced by the weather, those freezing cold winters... heavey fatty foods (these days mainly for tourists e.g. a tub of lard) and sour pickle their foods to preserve them, I am at a loss why sour but hey, each to their own.

Actually, I remember reading a theory that you may appreciate Seanus, having spent time in Japan.
The reason why Asians are not known as hardy drinkers is because they did not ferment their food for preservation like Europeans did. I do not know how valid this theory is but it sounds interesting.

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Sep 30, 10, 21:44 #14

Without a shadow of a doubt, Seanny. They have many warming foods through adaptation. Soups too but Scotland is no slouch there for the same reasons.

Hard issue. We should remember that cabbage, as used in okonomiyaki, is more Asian as it was brought across by the Celts and then given to Slavs. Right, Celts aren't Slavs ;) ;) The food doesn't seem to be fermented there. Oh, they like a drink, Seanny. Sake/shochuu/beer are all copiously consumed.

...	Sep 30, 10, 23:04 #15
colcannon here? The Poles would really go in for it, I think. Throw in some bacon bits and I can't see that there would be any leftovers. It has everything that Poles love in it. Cool!

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Sep 30, 10, 23:22 #16

skubus:

We, the poor Irish are being stereotyped again

The worst Ive ever seen!

Polonius3:

The English are thought of as consuming vast quantities of tea & crumpets, although the latter are a seasonal thing. Scones would be more typical, innit?

Crumpets are more for breakfast and scones are for afternoon tea - both can be taken any time of the year...Where did you hear it was a seasonal thing?

Seanus:

as is kedgeree.

Thats typically a British thing, it comes from India.

Polonius3:

it is widely believed that corned beef & cabbage are the archtypcial Irish dish

? WTF!

I could understand if you said Irish stew or spiced beef, but corned beef & cabbage?

trener zolwiaThreads: 5 Posts: 2,786 Joined: Jun 8, 10 ♂	Sep 30, 10, 23:52 #17
This is a typical Irishman as seen on the streets of Ireland... And this is there national staple food...

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Oct 1, 10, 02:47 #18

Before everyone jumps on the anti-American bandwagon, consider some of this. Corned beef became popular with the Irish immigrants as it was an actual affordable cut of meat at a time when the Irish were limited to mostly low paying jobs. Its a bit similar to bacon and cabbage, which last time I was in Ireland was still being served there.

Hopefully its all a bit clearer now.

Also corned beef in America isn't the kind from the tin, its the boiled seasoned brisket.

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Oct 1, 10, 07:08 #19

SeanBM:

Probably the only real difference to my cooking and a typical babcia's is, I boil more veg rather than grate it raw.

what about steam cooked.

you can do that too :)

SeanBM:

Americans ask dumb ass questions.

WOW I sense a rather large generalization here. ahem!!

ONLY ONE keeps asking these questions, but people seems to be answering now dont
they?? LOL

oh what is the saying, ask a stupid question get a stupid answer , but where is that
answer coming from? LOL

* runs away laughing* j/k blah hahahahaha

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Oct 1, 10, 10:18 #20

motylek:

Its a bit similar to bacon and cabbage, which last time I was in Ireland was still being served there.

Sure, it exists but I wouldn't call it common or popular. Amongst farmers maybe - older farmers that is. Otherwise maybe as a pub lunch or something, almost for tourists.

If someone said "OK, so we're having bacon and cabbage for dinner", most people would be surprised, bemused - probably like haggis tatties & neeps in Scotland.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Oct 1, 10, 10:29 #21
Mince and tatties is a different story :) Such a good dish :) Kedgeree too :)

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Oct 2, 10, 06:56 #22

Teffle:

Sure, it exists but I wouldn't call it common or popular. Amongst farmers maybe - older farmers that is. Otherwise maybe as a pub lunch or something, almost for tourists.

Right - its not common now, but it gained its popularity with the Irish immigrants to the States prior to 1900, most of which I'd venture to say were probably not well-off in either country. Either way, its associated with Irish communities in the States. I'm sure the majority of Americans are capable of understanding things wouldn't be the same in Ireland, even if they hadn't been there.

It's actually even kind of tasty!

Chicago PollockThreads: 10 Posts: 638 Joined: Apr 10, 10 ♂	Oct 2, 10, 07:04 #23
motylek: It's actually even kind of tasty! I love fresh corned beef. Maybe I'll have one tomorrow, corned beef on rye bread with sauerkraut.

JimmuThreads: 2 Posts: 152 Joined: Aug 26, 11 ♂	Edited by: Jimmu Sep 30, 11, 17:40 #24
they did not ferment their food for preservation like Europeans did. I do not know how valid this theory is Not very. Ever heard of soy sauce?

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Sep 30, 11, 17:50 #25

motylek re: bacon and cabbage.Right - its not common now, but it gained its popularity with the Irish immigrants to the States prior to 1900, most of which I'd venture to say were probably not well-off in either country. Either way, its associated with Irish communities in the States. I'm sure the majority of Americans are capable of understanding things wouldn't be the same in Ireland, even if they hadn't been there.

It's actually even kind of tasty!

I'm surprised it's gone off, or down, the menu. I was practically brought up on the stuff (perhaps because my mum was an immigrant!). btw, it should be noted that we are talking about boiled bacon here. Delicious.

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Edited by: Teffle Sep 30, 11, 17:56 #26

I'm surprised it's gone off, or down, the menu.

You'll probably find it has been "reinvented" (wish there was a roll-eyes thingy for this site) and can be found in upmarket restaurants served with a so-called twist, in a retro or ironic way, or has suffered some other pretentious fate...

Other than that, you might still get it in some battered oul dusty pub off the beaten track in the midlands somewhere. The real thing that is.

teflcatThreads: 6 Posts: 1,071 Joined: May 29, 11 ♂	Sep 30, 11, 18:05 #27
You'll probably find it has been "reinvented" (wish there was a roll-eyes thingy for this site) and can be found in upmarket restaurants served with a twist in a retro or ironic way or has suffered some other pretentious fate... I don't doubt it for a moment. 'Lard aux chou Mullingaraise', 25 Euro a pop.

TeffleThreads: 28 Posts: 2,105 Joined: Aug 26, 10 ♂	Sep 30, 11, 18:09 #28
LOL! very good

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