Drugi krąg (Smoleńsk context)?

Polonius3Threads: 1,005 Posts: 4,833 Joined: Apr 11, 08 ♂	Jan 23, 11, 14:30 #1
In following thr Smolesnk probe we hear the pilots were told to fly to 'drugi krąg'. Does that mean a different destination or another 'okrążenie' (fly-round) of he same airfield or what?

convexThreads: 46 Posts: 7,185 Joined: Nov 25, 09 ♂	Jan 23, 11, 15:40 #2
I believe it means "go around". Once the plane reaches the missed approach point and the field isn't in sight, the crew would need to execute a missed approach and decide whether to try again, hold, or to divert to their alternate.

♀

Edited by: asik Jan 25, 11, 08:34 #3

Polonius3:

we hear the pilots were told to fly to 'drugi krąg'

Na drugi krąg means go to different airport.

This was said but to Russian pilots who were trying to land their plane Ił-76 before our Polish plane (the one with our Polish President).
http://www.tvn24.pl/0,1689880,0,1,co-sie-dzialo-na-lotnisku-10-kwietni a,wiadomosc.html

W tym czasie na pokład tupolewa w Warszawie wchodzi prezydent Kaczyński. O godz. 7.27 rozpoczyna się lot Tu-154. W tym czasie Ił-76 podchodzi do lądowania z warunkową zgodą do tego. O godz. 7:25 dostaje polecenie odejścia na drugi krąg, a zaraz potem pozwolenia na podejście do drugiego lądowania - mówił.

Kilka sekund potem (7:25:54) kierownik lotów na wieży mówi, coś dość niezrozumiale: W tle pojawia się głos płk Nikołaj Krasnokutskiego: Jop twoja mać, ale jaja, oj kurwaaa…

Siedem sekund później: Kierownik lotów mówi o odejściu na drugi krąg,.

Po czym, o godz. 7:26:38 pojawia się kolejne stwierdzenie płk Krasnokutskiego: Trzeba Polakom powiedzieć, jaki jest dla nich, kurwa, wylot, no popatrz, no już ten…

MagdalenaThreads: 5 Posts: 1,389 Joined: Aug 15, 07 ♀	Jan 25, 11, 09:53 #4
asik: Na drugi krąg means go to different airport. In what language?!

alexw68

Jan 25, 11, 10:11 #5

Magdalena:

In what language?!

That's what I thought. The next part of the sentence shows it's definitely about coming round:

asik:

polecenie odejścia na drugi krąg, a zaraz potem pozwolenia na podejście do drugiego lądowania

... recommendation to come about, and straight afterwards [seek] clearance to approach for a second landing.

On such misunderstandings are conspiracy theories based...

♂

Edited by: skysoulmate Jan 25, 11, 10:59 #6

asik:

Na drugi krąg means go to different airport...

I don't think so.

Not familiar with aviation phraseology in Polish but to be told to proceed to a different airport this close to the ground would be very illogical. Controllers just don't do that. Instead when warranted they'll say "go around" and once at a safe altitude will inquire what intentions you have? In other words do you want to give it another try, or wait aka hold, or do you want to proceed to your alternate field?

The controllers normally do not tell the pilots to go-around for weather conditions once an approach has began. They will say it for runway incursions, etc., for example if an airplane or a car crosses the runway all of a sudden. Otherwise they'll always let the pilots to make the decision when to go around. "Drugi krąg" sounds like second/another circle/pattern, in other words a go-around to attempt a new approach.

♀

Edited by: asik Jan 25, 11, 12:13 #7

Magdalena:

In what language?!

It was translated from Russian "krug" which in Polish is "krąg" and in the above stated context means "different ring/second airfield/airport/"

krąg - circle, ring, sphere, range

alexw68:

asik:
polecenie odejścia na drugi krąg, a zaraz potem pozwolenia na podejście do drugiego lądowania

... recommendation to come about, and straight afterwards [seek] clearance to approach for a second landing.

On such misunderstandings are conspiracy theories based...

They ordered the Russian plane to fly to different airport and then they proceeded to land the same plane.
Read the whole article .
It just shows how unpredictable "flight manager/coordinator"( don't know the right name) from Smolensk base was.

skysoulmate:

Not familiar with aviation phraseology in Polish but to be told to proceed to a different airport this close to the ground would be very illogical.

But it was not directed to the Polish plane but to the Russian one, which was trying to land some time before the Polish plane.

MagdalenaThreads: 5 Posts: 1,389 Joined: Aug 15, 07 ♀	Edited by: Magdalena Jan 25, 11, 13:31 #8
asik: It was translated from Russian "krug" which in Polish is "krąg" and in the above stated context means "different ring/second airfield/airport/" Because you want it to mean that? Krąg is "krug" in Russian, and means circle. Lotnisko is "aerodrom" in Russian (airport). http://www.ling.pl/lotnisko,6,0 You can't just order words around like that, you know ;-)

♂

Edited by: skysoulmate Jan 25, 11, 13:38 #9

asik:

But it was not directed to the Polish plane but to the Russian one, which was trying to land some time before the Polish plane.

"circle" means pattern - this was a "go-around" call, not a "go to your alternate" call.

"...O godz. 8:35 i 22 sek. kontroler mówi pilotowi, że od 100 metrów ma być gotowy do odejścia na drugi krąg (czyli, że musi być przygotowany na przerwanie procedury lądowania). – Tak jest – odpowiada kapitan...."

http://www.tvn24.pl/0,1658805,0,1,ujawniono-stenogramy-z-czarnych-skrz ynek,wiadomosc.html

convexThreads: 46 Posts: 7,185 Joined: Nov 25, 09 ♂	Jan 26, 11, 14:21 #10
asik: It just shows how unpredictable "flight manager/coordinator"( don't know the right name) from Smolensk base was. Keep in mind that the Russian military controller can (and did) give orders to the Russian military pilot.

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