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Quote translation: "Cleanse my heart- give me the ability to rage correctly"


posts: 22

wegrzynskiThreads: 2
Posts: 1
Joined: Apr 30, 11 ♀ 		Edited by: Moderator  Apr 30, 11, 21:30    #1
It is hard enough to translate language while keeping the meaning, but I think it's even harder when translating something poetic or "deep."

I need help translating a quote:
"Cleanse my heart- give me the ability to rage correctly"

The best I've been able to come up with is something like "Czyste serce pozwala mi porządnic się wściekać" or "Czyste serce pozwala mi godnie się wściekać." I'm not crazy about either. I barely speak Polish and had help with those translations.

Any other ideas? If you could also offer the loose translation, I would really appreciate it!

Karen
alexw68  Apr 30, 11, 22:02    #2
wegrzynski:
but I think it's even harder when translating something poetic or "deep."

It's even harder when the original is frankly rubbish. OK, Joe Orton and all that, but this is dreadful stuff. 'Correctly'? Worst imaginable choice of adverb here - with the possible exception of 'fluffily'. The Orton myth is vastly more powerful than his actual writing abilities.

Polish is probably this, but it's crap too:

Wyczyszcz mi serce, abym mógł się gniewać porządnie

(Yes, I know porządnie sounds silly here. I'm merely trying to be faithful to the original)
BzibziohThreads: 6
Posts: 3,657
Joined: Oct 15, 08 ♀ [Suspended] 		 Apr 30, 11, 22:28    #3
alexw68:
Wyczyszcz mi serce, abym mógł się gniewać porządnie

Wyczyść mi serce abym mógł się porządnie powściekać. (?)

You are right, Alex, it sounds weird in Polish. Wyczyść mi serce?
boletusThreads: 47
Posts: 1,095
Joined: Apr 13, 11 ♂ 		 Apr 30, 11, 22:34    #4
Bzibzioh:
Wyczyść mi serce?

Oczyść me serce?
or more religiously: Oczyść serce me?
BzibziohThreads: 6
Posts: 3,657
Joined: Oct 15, 08 ♀ [Suspended] 		 Apr 30, 11, 22:39    #5
boletus:
Oczyść me serce?
or more religiously: Oczyść serce me?

Yeah, sounds better.
alexw68 Edited by: alexw68  Apr 30, 11, 22:53    #6
While we're on the subject of rage - in the early hours of this morning, the Muse reminded me of this excellent couplet by Dylan Thomas:

Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Now that I'd love to see translated...
chichimeraThreads: 3
Posts: 356
Joined: Feb 4, 11  Pictures: 1 ♀ 		 Apr 30, 11, 23:12    #7
alexw68:
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

So beautiful

I'll not attempt to translate poetry... Killing a poem is a deadly sin
MaaarysiaThreads: 3
Posts: 541
Joined: Feb 27, 10 ♀ 		Edited by: Maaarysia  May 1, 11, 12:52    #8
alexw68:
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.


Nie bądź potulny wobec nocy tej
Sprzeciw się śmierci świateł w niej.

How about that? ;)
TorqThreads: 65
Posts: 4,024
Joined: Apr 10, 09  Pictures: 1  Gold Member MEMBER ♂ 		Edited by: Torq  May 1, 11, 13:06    #9
alexw68:

Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Now that I'd love to see translated...


Lekko nie odchodź w tę dobrą noc
Swym gniewem wesprzyj światła moc.

or...

Nie odchodź w noc pokornie tak
Walcz, walcz o światła ostatni znak.

...or maybe...

Nie odchodź kornie, choć noc dobra jest.
Buntuj się, walcz nim przyjdzie kres.

Nah. I agree with Chichimera - translating is killing poetry.
MaaarysiaThreads: 3
Posts: 541
Joined: Feb 27, 10 ♀ 		Edited by: Maaarysia  May 1, 11, 13:13    #10
Torq:
Nah. I agree with Chichimera - translating is killing poetry.


Atually that one sounds petty nice:

Torq:
Lekko nie odchodź w tę dobrą noc
Swym gniewem wesprzyj światła moc.


Maybe the rhyme could be less obvious but the original sentence have a trivial rhyme too (night - light). I vote fot this translation, Torq :)



Ok the last try of mine:

Nie odpłyń w nocnych marzeń cień,
Walcz, walcz do ostatnich świateł tchnień.

...a little bit cheesy but some might like it.
MaaarysiaThreads: 3
Posts: 541
Joined: Feb 27, 10 ♀ 		 May 1, 11, 13:27    #11
Or the very last one:

Nie bądź miękki
Poczuj kawy wdzięki ;D
TorqThreads: 65
Posts: 4,024
Joined: Apr 10, 09  Pictures: 1  Gold Member MEMBER ♂ 		Edited by: Torq  May 1, 11, 14:02    #12
Maaarysia:
I vote fot this translation, Torq :)


Yours was better. I think, in this particular context, "rage against" is rendered much better
by "sprzeciw się" than by "wesprzyj gniewem", but thanks anyway :)

Maaarysia:

Nie bądź miękki
Poczuj kawy wdzięki ;D


:)
MaaarysiaThreads: 3
Posts: 541
Joined: Feb 27, 10 ♀ 		 May 1, 11, 15:19    #13
Torq:
Yours was better. I think, in this particular context, "rage against" is rendered much better
by "sprzeciw się" than by "wesprzyj gniewem", but thanks anyway :)


Thank you as well :)
That was my first poetic phrase ever written by me! Strangely I found a fun in translating this bit. To make it closer to the original I can propose a little change:

Nie podążaj ulegle ku czeluściom nocy tej
Sprzeciw się śmierci świateł w niej.

but still it doesn't sound so shapely as the original sentence.

I wonder how was it translated by the professional translator
MaaarysiaThreads: 3
Posts: 541
Joined: Feb 27, 10 ♀ 		 May 1, 11, 15:42    #14
Nie ulegaj pokusie za nocą podążania
Walcz do ostatniego tchnienia umierania.
TorqThreads: 65
Posts: 4,024
Joined: Apr 10, 09  Pictures: 1  Gold Member MEMBER ♂ 		Edited by: Torq  May 1, 11, 16:06    #15
Maaarysia:

Nie ulegaj pokusie za nocą podążania
Walcz do ostatniego tchnienia umierania.


No, I'm sorry - that would be...

Do not fall for the temptation of following the night
Fight until the last breath of dying.

...not:

alexw68:

Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.


;)

That's why I think translating poetry is ultimately pointless. To render simultanously the meaning, rhytm
and rhymes, as well as emotional potential and cultural/linguistic references, would seem to be impossible.
MaaarysiaThreads: 3
Posts: 541
Joined: Feb 27, 10 ♀ 		 May 1, 11, 17:23    #16
Torq:
That's why I think translating poetry is ultimately pointless. To render simultanously the meaning, rhytm
and rhymes, as well as emotional potential and cultural/linguistic references, would seem to be impossible.


Yeah I've just read the Polish translation of that poem and I don't like it. It sounds in Polish too much sophisticated and unclearly.
Des EssientesThreads: 11
Posts: 2,318
Joined: Feb 6, 10  Pictures: 4 ♂ [Suspended] 		 May 1, 11, 17:50    #17
Torq:
That's why I think translating poetry is ultimately pointless.

Exact translations of poetry may be impossible but that hardly makes them pointless. Look at the case of Omar Khayyam's Rubayyat. Edward Fitzgerald's translation of it contains some of the most beloved verses in the English language. If an expert in medieval Persian told you that Fitzgerald altered the meanings of the originals would you then believe that translation was pointless, or would you say "so what I love these profoundly beautiful poems"? Indeed a good, although innacurate, translation may make poems better than they were in the original language.
TorqThreads: 65
Posts: 4,024
Joined: Apr 10, 09  Pictures: 1  Gold Member MEMBER ♂ 		Edited by: Torq  May 1, 11, 18:03    #18
Whilst I don't deny that there may be cases of exceptionally good translations, the fact remains that
most poetry is quite impossible to translate faithfully. But you're right, maybe "pointless" is not the word
I wanted - some people probably enjoy English versions of Polish poems, for example, or French versions
of Russian ones, but to say that a translated poem is the same poem as original, only in a different
language, would be debatable to say the least.

How would you translate...

alexw68:

Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.


...into Polish?
aphrodisiacThreads: 22
Posts: 3,998
Joined: Apr 15, 09 ♀ 		 May 1, 11, 18:05    #19
wegrzynski:
"Cleanse my heart- give me the ability to rage correctly"

oczyść me serce- przywróć mi zdolność do szaleństwa :)
Des EssientesThreads: 11
Posts: 2,318
Joined: Feb 6, 10  Pictures: 4 ♂ [Suspended] 		Edited by: Des Essientes  May 1, 11, 18:19    #20
Torq:
How would you translate

I wouldn't translate that Dylan Thomas poem into Polish because I disagree profoundly with its sentiment. Gentleness is strength. Water is soft but it erodes mountains. Rage is a childish response to adversity.
alexw68  May 1, 11, 22:13    #21
Des Essientes:
I wouldn't translate that Dylan Thomas poem into Polish because I disagree profoundly with its sentiment. Gentleness is strength. Water is soft but it erodes mountains. Rage is a childish response to adversity.

Pretentious? Toi?

The good night of the poem, as any fule kno, is death. So not just any old adversity. Perhaps a little more at stake, and anyway it's good to have an alternative to the Stoic platitudes of Seneca et al.
Des EssientesThreads: 11
Posts: 2,318
Joined: Feb 6, 10  Pictures: 4 ♂ [Suspended] 		 May 1, 11, 22:17    #22
alexw68:
The good night of the poem, as any fule kno, is death.

Yes i believe it is addressed to his dying father, but i fail to see how my rejecting rage makes me pretentious. Some humans can rise above the baser emotions that lead to the casting of false aspersions maybe someday you can too.


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