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Translate "no faith without doubt" into polish.


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rpajestkaThreads: 1
Posts: 5
Joined: Jun 19, 10 ♂ 		 Jun 19, 10, 22:25    #1
How do you translate "no faith without doubt" into polish?
KapustaThreads: 5
Posts: 120
Joined: Apr 29, 09 ♀ 		 Jun 19, 10, 22:30    #2
Nie ma wiary bez watpienia (?)
rpajestkaThreads: 1
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Joined: Jun 19, 10 ♂ 		 Jun 19, 10, 23:49    #3
thank you, but is (?) meaning your not sure
f stopThreads: 33
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Joined: Dec 9, 09  Pictures: 1 ♀ 		 Jun 19, 10, 23:56    #4
I think it means that having doubts is a part of faith.
enderThreads: 13
Posts: 528
Joined: Nov 7, 09 ♂ 		 Jun 20, 10, 00:00    #5
It's treaky, her translation could also means:
No doubt, there is no faith.
rpajestkaThreads: 1
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Joined: Jun 19, 10 ♂ 		 Jun 20, 10, 00:03    #6
ok, so could you please translate it correctly?
enderThreads: 13
Posts: 528
Joined: Nov 7, 09 ♂ 		 Jun 20, 10, 00:23    #7
Shortest vesion is:
Nie ma wiary bez zwątpienia.
KapustaThreads: 5
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Joined: Apr 29, 09 ♀ 		 Jun 20, 10, 00:24    #8
So I was almost right? (didn't use Polish letters:)
enderThreads: 13
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Joined: Nov 7, 09 ♂ 		Edited by: ender  Jun 20, 10, 00:32    #9
Kapusta:
So I was almost right?

zwatpienie is not the same as watpienie
zwątpienie-despondency
wątpienie-doubt(s) polish version got double meaning doubt AND doubts plus some extra its tricky
rpajestkaThreads: 1
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Joined: Jun 19, 10 ♂ 		 Jun 20, 10, 00:42    #10
ok thank you very much, does this work too, "brak wiary bez watpienia?"
enderThreads: 13
Posts: 528
Joined: Nov 7, 09 ♂ 		Edited by: ender  Jun 20, 10, 00:55    #11
rpajestka:
"brak wiary bez watpienia?"

bit strange expression in polish but possible in some strange conversation
and means lack of faith without doubts
Bez wątpienia nie ma wiary. - No faith without doubts.
Bezwątpienia nie ma wiary. - No doubts faith doesn't exist.
Polish TutorThreads: -
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Joined: Jun 22, 09 ♂ 		 Jun 20, 10, 12:33    #12
Nie ma wiary bez wątpliwości

Każda wiara rodzi wątpliwości


Zwątpienie cacels the faith, wątpliwość is a natural part of the faith
If you believe you " masz wątpliwości"
I you "popadniesz w zwątpienie" you lose your faith

wątpliwość is local zwątpienie is total (-:
enderThreads: 13
Posts: 528
Joined: Nov 7, 09 ♂ 		 Jun 20, 10, 14:23    #13
Polish Tutor:
Nie ma wiary bez wątpliwościKażda wiara rodzi wątpliwości

Please don't listen atheist
Even your
Nie ma wiary bez wątpienia. (Be careful how you saying it cos Nie ma wiary, bezwątpienia. means Undoubtedly there is no faith)
is better then
atheistic
Nie ma wiary bez wątpliwości.
Shortly if you religious I wouldn't use above sentence. If you atheist or your god is your mate from pub then you can have wątpliwości about amount of beer he drinks.
emkapThreads: -
Posts: 3
Joined: Jun 1, 10 ♀ 		 Jun 22, 10, 22:11    #14
i would translate 'brak wiary bez watpliwosci' however it makes me thinking whether it should be 'bez watpliwosci brak wiary' which makes more sense to it.
alexw68  Jun 22, 10, 22:19    #15
Careful: 'bez wątpliwości' changes the meaning.

That comes out as "indubitably there is no such thing as faith". (I've recast the sentence to bring out the difference).

'bez wątpliwości' -> There is no questioning the proposition I am making. Compare: 'nie ulega wątpliwości'
'bez wątpienia' -> The proposition I am making has been arrived at via the practice of doubt, scepticism, self-examination etc.

Probably not watertight across all usage cases but I think it holds here ...
rpajestkaThreads: 1
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Joined: Jun 19, 10 ♂ 		 Jun 22, 10, 23:10    #16
ok, so does "nie wiara bez wątpienie" work
alexw68  Jun 22, 10, 23:14    #17
No, but Kapusta's
Nie ma wiary bez wątpienia

does.
rpajestkaThreads: 1
Posts: 5
Joined: Jun 19, 10 ♂ 		 Jun 22, 10, 23:16    #18
ahh, but i dont want "there is" in the sentence, because its going to be a tatoo
alexw68  Jun 22, 10, 23:21    #19
"Nie wiara" is ungrammatical.

You could have instead "Wiara nie istnieje bez wątpienia" but no, to be honest, it wouldn't fit on my forearm/small of back/arse cheek either...
estraund  Nov 10, 10, 21:19    #20
Nie ma wiary bez zwątpienia is how we say it in poland no matter what the translation is. you dont have to just translate it but to change it into polish version.. and Nie ma wiary bez wątpienia just doesn't make sense
nottThreads: 6
Posts: 1,271
Joined: Jun 2, 10 ♂ 		Edited by: nott  Nov 10, 10, 21:54    #21
estraund:
Nie ma wiary bez wątpienia just doesn't make sense


Well, it does, more that 'zwatpienie', which is 'despondency' rather(*), as ender pointed out.

I was slightly at a loss, so I googled, with quotes:
1. 'nie ma wiary bez zwątpienia' - 9 results
2. 'nie ma wiary bez wątpienia' - 1 result; not used widely probably because of the similarity to 'bezwątpienia', which is 'undoubtedly'
3. 'nie ma wiary bez wątpliwości' - 968 results, unchallenged winner.
4. 'nie ma wiary bez zwątpień' - 1 result, 'nasz biskup mówił'

While speaking, I wouldn't bother much, though. It's a cliche, people know what it means regardless of grammatical nuances. But google says that the proper (most often used) form of this cliche is the 3rd one.

(*) 'rather' only, but not definitely. 'Popaść w zwątpienie' can mean both 'to become despondent' and to 'develop doubts about something'.

Edit:
with the 3rd one make sure you have no mole or sth in place of the comma below:
'nie ma wiary, bez wątpliwości'
This would change the meaning to 'there's no faith, undoubtedly.' Risky choice of a tattoo :)
TomG1  Nov 11, 10, 18:45    #22
There is nothing like "bezwątpienia" in Polish - it must be written only with a space bar between!
nottThreads: 6
Posts: 1,271
Joined: Jun 2, 10 ♂ 		 Nov 11, 10, 21:11    #23
TomG1:
There is nothing like "bezwątpienia" in Polish - it must be written only with a space bar between!


And I thought the same, until I googled it. Seems this error propagates, and may become a standard soon.
TomGThreads: -
Posts: 1
Joined: Nov 11, 10 ♂ 		Edited by: TomG  Nov 11, 10, 21:30    #24
I am sure it is not accepted and cannot be used. To make it more believable, check this: w w w.sjp.pl/bezw%B1tpienia out.
nottThreads: 6
Posts: 1,271
Joined: Jun 2, 10 ♂ 		 Nov 11, 10, 23:13    #25
TomG:
I am sure it is not accepted and cannot be used.


Thing is, dictionaries are supposed to describe the language, not to define it, or there'd be no change ever. See discussion on bździągwa http://www.sjp.pl/b%BCdzi%B1gwa for example.

I don't like this kludge, hurts my eyes, but the people will decide.
Marynka11Threads: 8
Posts: 1,447
Joined: Nov 3, 10 ♀ 		 Nov 12, 10, 00:26    #26
How about "Watpliwości są częscią wiary"

Doubts are part of faith.
nottThreads: 6
Posts: 1,271
Joined: Jun 2, 10 ♂ 		 Nov 12, 10, 00:34    #27
Marynka11:
How about "Watpliwości są częscią wiary"


The meaning is doubtlessly all right, but google gives 4 results only. So it depends on rpajestka what is best for the tattoo.
asikThreads: 2
Posts: 547
Joined: Feb 17, 09 ♀ 		 Nov 12, 10, 01:28    #28
rpajestka:
How do you translate "no faith without doubt" into polish?

In Polish known saying is :

"Nie ma wiary bez wątpliwości" or "Tam gdzie jest wiara, są też i wątpliwości"

It says that in every faith there are always some doubts. We are only humans, we are designed to sometimes doubt our faith etc.


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