Translation of tombstone inscription.

genjudeThreads: 1 Posts: 2 Joined: Nov 7, 11 ♀	Edited by: Moderator Nov 7, 11, 15:38 #1
These letters are inscribed on a tombstone. Is anyone able to translate it? Thank you. ZANEMZALUJE SOPROCAINMIZELI VECNIMIR AMEN

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Nov 7, 11, 16:13 #2

genjude:

ZANEMZALUJE
SOPROCAINMIZELI
VECNIMIR AMEN

This is definitely not Polish. I saw the same message on some Italian-English translation forum. Groping blindly around, do you?

But I can give you two hints.
1. When you copy something make sure that this is an exact copy, and not what you think it might be. Spaces are important, diacritic marks are important.
2. This could be a Czech inscription. The first line probably says: "ZA NEM ŽALUJE" and my guess is that it means "I MISSED HIM". The last line should read "VEČNI MIR AMEN", "ETERNAL PIECE AMEN". I have no clue about the middle line.

But this could also be one of South Slavic languages. Our resident Polish-Czech expert, Magdalena, will be able to solve the entire puzzle for you. In meantime go to some Czech forum and try there.

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Nov 7, 11, 22:46 #3

Absolutely not Polish. My Czech is rubbish these days, but:

boletus:

VEČNI MIR AMEN

this would be Věčný mír AMEN in Czech.

boletus:

ZA NEM ŽALUJE

I think this would be something like žal pro něj in Czech; not sure how to change the ending of žal (if necessary), though.

There may be completely different "respectful" form, as used on tombstones; but unless I die in CZ, I'll probably never find out (come to think of it, if I did die there, I wouldn't find out anyway would I, lol).

boletus:

But this could also be one of South Slavic languages

I think this is the most likely answer. Sounds to me like it may be from Serbian/Slovenian or one of the surrounding countries. Maybe those Serbs on here could make themselves useful for a change? ;) lol

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Nov 8, 11, 03:59 #4

Thank you all for your help and suggestions. I am checking with a Slovenian forum now BUT I am
almost positive this next tombstone is Polish. Can anyone tell me what Line 2 means? Did the person live to be 10 years old or 10 months old? STARA is YEARS
Thank you again. I don't know why I am so interested in the dead but that's how we genealogists are. I grew up next to this cemetery - maybe that's why.

Line 1 is: UM 23 MAJA 1902 which I know is BORN 23 MARCH 1902
Line 2 is: STARA 10 MIESZ

ShortHairThugThreads: - Posts: 1,374 Joined: May 1, 09 ♂	Nov 8, 11, 04:59 #5
genjude: which I know is BORN 23 MARCH 1902 Are you sure? The only thing you got right is the numbers LOL

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Nov 8, 11, 05:35 #6

You have quite a few details wrong:

Line 1 is: UM 23 MAJA 1902 which I know is BORN 23 MARCH 1902

Is it UM or is it UR? UR is an abbreviation of Urodzony/urodzona = BORN. However UM would be quite opposite: umarł/umarła = DIED. Strange orthography though, typically ZM (zmarł/zmarła) is used instead. MAJA is not MARCH, it is OF MAY

Did not I tell you to pay attention to details?

Line 2 is: STARA 10 MIESZ

STARA is not YEARS, STARA means OLD (Female).
Strange, non-polite wording. I have never heard it used like this in Polish. But it could be some dialect, uneducated jargon, or an English calque. Is this cemetery somewhere in Pennsylvania by any chance?
MIES would be an abbreviation from MIESIĘCY (MIESIĄCE) = MONTHS. MIESZ does not make any sense, unless you mistyped it or the word is corrupted. Taking all of this into account the second line would mean: (She was) OLD 10 MONTHS

ShortHairThugThreads: - Posts: 1,374 Joined: May 1, 09 ♂	Nov 8, 11, 05:53 #7
boletus: I have never heard it used like this in Polish. You never heard Yank translators that work for state department then, stick around you'll learn something about your own native language. That's how wars get started don't you know. LMAO

strzygaThreads: 4 Posts: 985 Joined: Apr 30, 08 ♀	Nov 8, 11, 09:10 #8
boletus: an English calque. that's my take on it too, probably a crude translation from English

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Edited by: Sidliste_Chodov Nov 8, 11, 12:14 #9

boletus:

STARA is not YEARS, STARA means OLD (Female).

I wonder if this is used in one of the other (southern/eastern?) Slavic languages? If not, I think the "English mistranslation" sounds like a possibility! lol.

Polish/Czech is żył/žil (lived to) x number of years, not "was x years old".

In Czech, born/died would be narozený/zemřel, unless Czech also has a form of "Zasnęła w Panu" for "died" which is sometimes seen on Polish tombstones, so it's becoming pretty clear that this isn't Czech (and therefore unlikely to be Slovak either).

ShortHairThug:

You never heard Yank translators that work for state department then, stick around you'll learn something about your own native language. That's how wars get started don't you know. LMAO

I bet they aren't as bad as the "nigger furniture" mistranslation, though... lol :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigger#.22Nigger-brown.22_colored_furnitu re

.

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Nov 8, 11, 21:20 #10

genjude:

I am
almost positive this next tombstone is Polish

I think, the unciphred words could be any slavonic language, or at least most Slavs would understand them. So if the words are probably misspelled then the only way to find the language would be checking which one would use them in this context.

Even though I can imagine an 100 yo tombstone sentence to read 'VEČNI MIR AMEN' (actually: Wieczny mir, Amen) still the other part doesn't look Polish at all, even misspelled. I think no one would use 'zaluje' (pol. żałuję) in this context. I think it'd be 'tęsknię' instead.

As the other ppl wrote, you should try with southern Slavs or Ukrainians (though the latter would use different alphabet, but they just may have not been able or allowed if this was in US).

Cinek

genjudeThreads: 1 Posts: 2 Joined: Nov 7, 11 ♀	Nov 9, 11, 03:35 #11
Thank you again. From what you have told me this little girl died 23 of May 1902 at 10 months old. I appreciate your help in translating this. Best wishes.

dbelaskiThreads: - Posts: 2 Joined: Aug 31, 11 ♂	Feb 18, 12, 13:25 #12
on my grandfathers tombstone it reads: UR. 15 BRUD. 1888 What does this mean?

ShawnHThreads: 9 Posts: 3,056 Joined: Jul 2, 09 ♂	Feb 18, 12, 13:34 #13
dbelaski: UR. 15 BRUD. 1888 Sure it isn't Grud? Then it would likely be: "Born 15 December 1888"

pantslessThreads: 1 Posts: 177 Joined: Feb 1, 10 ♂	Feb 18, 12, 13:35 #14
dbelaski: UR. 15 BRUD. 1888 It means you cant differentiate between the letters "B" and "G" What it translates to is: BORN DECEMBER 15TH 1888

VincentThreads: 15 Posts: 1,706 Joined: Sep 9, 07 ♂ [Moderator]	Feb 18, 12, 13:43 #15
pantsless: It means you cant differentiate between the letters "B" and "G" No need for the sarcastic remark. For all you know, the letters may have faded or weathered through time.

dbelaskiThreads: - Posts: 2 Joined: Aug 31, 11 ♂	Feb 18, 12, 14:07 #16
Thanks for your help. The letters are faded and weathered. Took a photo of the tombstone. It could be a G. I will have the photo enlarged and enhanced. Took me 3 years to find this tombstone of my grandfather. Some people just like to be sarcastic.

WroclawThreads: 77 Posts: 7,404 Joined: Apr 1, 06 ♂ [Moderator]	Feb 18, 12, 14:13 #17
dbelaski: Took me 3 years to find this tombstone of my grandfather. that is the way of genealogy and family history. and part of the fun and excitement too.

TrevekThreads: 33 Posts: 2,155 Joined: May 21, 08 ♂	Feb 18, 12, 16:33 #18
Could it be Old Church Slavonic in latin script?

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Edited by: boletus Feb 18, 12, 18:05 #19

Trevek:

Could it be Old Church Slavonic in latin script?

I took another look at this inscription

ZANEMZALUJE
SOPROCAINMIZELI
VECNIMIR AMEN

and I came to the conclusion that it is written in broken Slovenian and it actually was meant to be:

ZA NJIM ŽALUJEJO [ŽALUJE=grieves, but considering the second line it should be actually plural ŽALUJEJO= grieve]
SOPROGA IN MATERE [IN= AND, MIZELI=does not match anything obvious, but it could instead be MATI or MATERE=mother]
VEČNI MIR AMEN

For him grieve
Wife and Mother
Eternal Peace Amen

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