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Does anyone have any relatives who served with 1st Polish Armoured Division (Gen. Maczek)

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♂

Edited by: Peter Jul 18, 09, 23:39 #61

snip:

I found out today that he (Jan called Janek Dabek) was in 24th lancers.

Same regiment as my father.

A friend of my father's served in the submarine ORP Dzik in the Med. After the war he also had to take a menial job. He told me about having to load beer trucks at 4.30am and even though he was a sailor he could only get the worst jobs on tramp steamers.

Nevertheless it's great to hear that you are making headway in your search. I hope you continue to make new discoveries.

Timeline

Jul 19, 09, 03:21 #62

My father-in-law served in the 1st Polish Armoured Division i know he spent time in Scotland
and fought in Holland i know little else about what happen to him, he met my mother-in-law in Germany after the war (she had been taken as slave labour when she was 14years old.) I know they met in a German Village that had been given over to the Poles at the end of the war they married and came to the UK - I am looking for information about what happen to him in the war and the name of the village his name was Wacław Engelhardt. both my in-laws have sadly passed away it was hard to ask them to much as it was very painful for them

wiesiekThreads: 1 Posts: 41 Joined: Sep 21, 08 ♂	Jul 19, 09, 11:06 #63
Timeline My father served in 1st Armoured Division, my mother was slave labour 16 years old when taken from village near Łodz. They got married in Germany in town called Meppen. Wiesiek

♂

Jul 19, 09, 15:13 #64

Timeline:

I am looking for information about what happen to him in the war and the name of the village his name was Wacław Engelhardt. both my in-laws have sadly passed away it was hard to ask them to much as it was very painful for them

See sjam's post above with the contact details for the MoD, Polish Affairs.

The MoD will only release service records to a next of kin. So you will need a) proof of grandfather's death (death certificate) and b) that you are his direct next of kin.

The MoD will send you a "Certificate of Kinship" form which you have to complete and send along with the documentary proof you are your grandfather's next of kin. If your grandmother is alive for instance, the law is that MoD would only release this information to her and not you. There is a fee of £25.00 also.

You can download the "Certificate of Kinship form from here:
http://www.veterans-uk.info/pdfs/service_records/raf_kinship.pdf

Contact address for Polish service records (don't worry that it has RAF in the address; all Polish service records are archived here) at MoD:

APC Polish Enquiries,
Building 28B,
RAF Northolt,
West End Road,
Ruislip,
HA4 6NG,
Tel: 0208 833 8603
Fax: 0208 833 8866

e-mail: polishastdisoff@northolt.raf.mod.uk or polishdisoff@northolt.raf.mod.uk

The Polish Institute and Sikorski Museum in London:
The Polish Institute and Sikorski Museum, 20 Princes Gate, London SW7 1PT, Great Britain.
Telephone: +44 (0)20 7589 9249

The Sikorski holds all the unit records of the Polish Forces of the West including the listings of service men and women, but you would need to know what unit your grandfather served with as these records are all paper documents not a searchable database. They don't have email so you need to write or phone. The head of the archives at the Sikorski is Mr Andrzej Suchcitz. As the insitute is manned by volunteers (mainly Polish forces veterans) replies can take some time but they will reply.

♂

Jul 19, 09, 17:37 #65

my dad was born in a slave labour camp, kostroma in russia. I have decided to try and get things together methodically as there is no point in rushing back in time too quickly. My birth cert says st neots and so I looked for army camps and then I remembered that my mum had said `army hospital` and I found it at Diddington. I found one sheet of a newsletter that told about me winning a baby show 6 months later and codford was at the bottom. Then I found out about the accomodation at codford and it linked to a small photo of a hut with nappies blowing in the wind.

This is how I am working, just one step at a time. My siblings are finding a piece of paper here and there and today I got an e mail with a copy of an army reference and it shows my dads army number. A HUGE breakthrough. So now I can get some details from the army records office and later when I am sure of the unit, from the sikorski museum

I have googled non stop and found a map of the route the army took through europe when they liberated Breda and I have lots of printouts of things.

He left Poland in 1939 and went to Scotland and ended up back in the uk in 1947

The hardest gap for me is the time between 1916 and 1939. Slave labour was mentioned lots of times by my mother (Dutch from Breda) but dad didn`t talk about anything in his past. I have found where his parents are buried (Boby) and I found their names and I have a little picture of each of his siblings, including an older sister her husband and son. Her husband and son were shot by the kgb

The more I find out, the more I feel a hole in my heart for Poland. To know now that this hard working, brave and intelligent people were called aliens really hurts and so does the fact that the poles could not walk in the victory march, just to keep stalin appeased

♂

Edited by: Peter Jul 19, 09, 23:53 #66

Snip,

I'm afraid that as you slowly uncover more information and material you will discover a roller coaster of emotions as you do so. Sadly most people who undertake the search you are now doing (as I did and am still doing) will uncover tragic and painful events in their past. Whilst my father was lucky enough to escape through Romania in 1939, 2 of his cousins were not. One died at Katyn and the other mere days before the war ended when his POW camp was evacuated. His brother was shot in 1941 by SS troops and another cousin died during the Russian advance in 1944. I'm still "digging" through the long list of family relations so I have no doubt there will be more sadness to find. Still I've also found living cousins so there is also an upside!

Keep digging, you may have some most pleasant and unexpected finds!

♀

Jul 24, 09, 12:44 #67

My father Stanislaw Bogacz served in the 1st Polish Armoured Division. After the war he was based in several parts of the UK - Crawford, Sherbourne & possibly Penley. Does anyone remember him and perhaps have photos. Unfortunately he passed away and like so many of us, I never asked too many questions. A couple of years after the war my mother Bronia was found with my two brothers and they came and settled here too. I know he was in Falaise, Caen during the war and was made a citizen of the town of St Nicholas.

♂

Jul 25, 09, 21:11 #68

I know for sure now. My dad was definitely in the 24th lancers. I saw my brother this week and he has kindly lent me a book that he had tucked away in his loft. Its a really precious book, numbered 1069, so there are at least 1068 copies about. It is about A4 size softback and yellowing. On the front is 24 PULK ULANOW (lines through the Ls and a comma over the O ) It looks as though the book was printed in 1945. The eagle and the red and white (or cream) emblems are near the front. 24 is inside 4 wheat wreaths and the other side has HONOR I OJCZYZNA inside a larger wheat wreath. I think it is the 24th lancers flag

I can`t get the Polish alphabet sorry.

There are lots of photos, starting with the cavalry, then tanks. There are several pages of vertical columns of writing in 3 languages, including English. Maps. Photos in Chippenham, Douglas, Arbroath, Galashiels, Kirkudbright. Several other places in europe, including chambois, Gand (Ghent) and there is a great picture of my dad on a tank

Writing on several areas, including normandy. 47 officers and 634 men, 52 sherman tanks, 11 stuart tanks, 6 anti aircraft tanks. Kanski, Rakowski, Drzewinski, Komornicki, Piwonski, Szumanski, Zboski, ziolkowski, Dzierzek. They were the officers

It gives the armoury losses and the enemy losses etc etc. There is a list of people etc at the back plus pictures of medals

I nearly didn`t write this but I am so excited at having it in my hands for a short while. I had to share some detail with you. I`ll look for your name if I can

Can someone please translate this: KRZYZ ZASLUGI Z MIECZAMI

caprice49Threads: 4 Posts: 288 Joined: Aug 5, 09 ♀	Aug 7, 09, 13:48 #69
Yes he did have two daughter and I think both of them attended the Polish Boarding School in Northampton

caprice49Threads: 4 Posts: 288 Joined: Aug 5, 09 ♀	Aug 7, 09, 14:04 #70
KRZYZ ZASLUGI Z MIECZAMI Means A Cross of Merit with Swords. There are three catagories. Gold, Silver & Bronze. A Polish wartime medal given to soldiers serving in the Polish army as well as members of the Resistance. Primarily given for courage and fortitude

♂

Edited by: Peter Aug 7, 09, 18:54 #71

What an amazing discovery Snip! I almost envy you.

I don't know if you are willing to consider this but there is a museum in Poland dedicated to the 24th Lancers, they may not have a copy of the book and may be interested in getting a copy. The Sikorski Institute may also ne interested.

snip:

snipThreads: 2 Posts: 10 Joined: Jul 15, 09 ♂	Aug 7, 09, 19:21 #72
Thank you very much caprice

GILLESThreads: - Posts: 5 Joined: Aug 10, 09 ♂	Aug 10, 09, 19:55 #73
The german tank is still actually in La Gleize, many parts of them were stolled, and the camouflage is also not good. regards Gilles

GILLESThreads: - Posts: 5 Joined: Aug 10, 09 ♂	Aug 10, 09, 20:13 #74
Hello from Belgium, I have a few pictures from the monuments in Tielt about 24th lancers. You can contact me if interrested. Regards Gilles

GILLESThreads: - Posts: 5 Joined: Aug 10, 09 ♂	Aug 11, 09, 09:32 #75
Hello from Belgium, the german tank is still in la Gleize in belgium, with many parts stolled, and also bad camouflage. regards Gilles

♀

Aug 11, 09, 11:20 #76

snip:

The more I find out, the more I feel a hole in my heart for Poland. To know now that this hard working, brave and intelligent people were called aliens really hurts and so does the fact that the poles could not walk in the victory march, just to keep stalin appeased

I'm reading Rising 44 Battle for Warsaw by Norman Davies. It's shaken me, even though I was brought up on a lot of information it provides. I recommend reading it. It gives a very accurate account.

Zoe	Aug 11, 09, 16:46 #77
Hi - My Dad was also in the 24th lancers. He was a radio operator and also a sergent or corporal. His name was Jan Dabek and he married Adrienne Welton from Breda after the liberation. I am looking for more information and photos. He was born 1916 in Kostroma - How did his parents get there? Maybe you can help me. Thanks Zoe

♀

Edited by: caprice49 Aug 12, 09, 13:56 #78

Timeline:

My father-in-law served in the 1st Polish Armoured Division i know he spent time in Scotland
and fought in Holland

So did mine. Do you know whether he was in the first REgiment? If so he would have been stationed in Duns, Scotland - where a memorial was put up in memory all those who fought for the Division. For many years those who survived used to meet up in London - Either in the Polish Cultural Centre (POSK) or in Kensington around the corner from the Club "Polskie Ognisko" - Polish Hearth

SNIP
The reason Poles didn't participate in the victory parade, was because the Brits invited the Polish Government, but in the last minute they realised they hadn't been allies with that element (Lublin Committee) of Polish Government, so at the ninth hour those who had represented the Polish Government in Exile were hurriedly invited. It was felt however, that the parade for Poles would have meant a march for defeat and so no one took part.

caprice49Threads: 4 Posts: 288 Joined: Aug 5, 09 ♀	Aug 12, 09, 14:55 #79
ladycaren: It appears that my Gt, Gt, Grandfather was one of Napoleon Bonaparte's Generals and fought several battles against the Russians.. It can be only one of three. Do keep searching. If you need any help with the Polish just copy and paste - Just make sure you keep out family names.

WroclawThreads: 74 Posts: 7,276 Joined: Apr 1, 06 ♂ [Moderator]	Aug 12, 09, 17:22 #80
caprice49: Just make sure you keep out family names. The accepted norm is to keep out names of the living. Genealogy is pointless without names. Besides, wiki has a list of Bonaparte's commanders in the Russian campaign.

snipThreads: 2 Posts: 10 Joined: Jul 15, 09 ♂	Edited by: snip Aug 13, 09, 14:50 #81
Zoe Who is Zoe? She is not one of my siblings and has no authorisation to be putting any details of my family in such a posting If anyone is looking to get army records then the cost is now £30 and you need death certs of anyone above you in the kinship stakes ie father plus mother

♀

Aug 14, 09, 00:05 #82

Have found this thread most interesting and informative. My father was in the 2nd corps of the Polish Army (I think it may have been a tank regiment as he spoke about tanks quite often). He was involved with the Italian Campaign at Monte Cassino. I just wondered if anyone else out their had family members in this campaign. My dad mentioned General Anders and also the British 8th army. Any information would be appreciated.

timeline	Aug 14, 09, 14:06 #83
atfer the war my father came to England he was in a camp i think in southern england from there he came to South Wales and worked as a miner there were other Polish familys and once a month a polish priest would come and say mass at the local church

♂

Aug 14, 09, 18:15 #84

mazzastaffordsh:

My cousin was a corporal in an artillery regiment in the 2 Corps. Sadly he died in 1990. If you search the web you'll find a lot o general info on the 2 Corp from their formation to participation in the Italian theatre.

♀

Aug 14, 09, 22:41 #85

Thanks Peter will do.

Hi Timeline, many Poles worked in the mines in this country. Here in Staffordshire alone there are many mining communities that welcomed the hardworking Poles. They were a credit to the Polish country. It was not always easy for them to settle as sometimes the English people gave them a very hard time. In my father's case he settled into a lovely little village which he said reminded him of home. After his death in 2000 having never returned to his native village some of my family decided to visit our relatives and we have since been to see the village of his birth. He was quite right, it is very similar to the village that became his home in England. Anyone out there who had father's who left Poland because of the war and like my dad never returned if you have the chance to learn more about your heritage take the chance. We did and have no regrets, in fact it has helped us to learn more about ourselves and where we come from.

♀

Edited by: caprice49 Aug 19, 09, 17:44 #86

Photos from my collection:-
First attachment
From left to right
1st Armoured Division in prayer before battle somewhere in Europe
Scottish Polish Society Membership Card
The crew of this tank perished one hour before the end of the war.
Dijon
Memorial to those who served in 1st & 2nd Armoured Division erected in Dunsl
Souvenir card of 16th Brigade of 1st Armoured Division
Second & Third Attachment
Roll of Honour remembering those who were stationed in Duns of the 1st & 2nd Armoured Division and fell battlefields in France, Belgium, Holland & Germany
Fourth attachment.
Scotland - Sikorski present.
Can only load one at time, so the others will have to wait until someone else replies to this. will try to load on this one by editing.
Third one.
Fourth one
Here goes the fifth one. Sorry if it doesn't work.
I've attempted to the photo attachments individually hence the running commentary. I hope it's worked.

caprice49Threads: 4 Posts: 288 Joined: Aug 5, 09 ♀	Aug 19, 09, 18:05 #87
McCoy: In 2008 in Bielsko Biała took pleace The World Meeting of General Maczek's soldiers. How did you attach your photos. I've just tried and failed abysmally

wallis	Oct 4, 09, 12:15 #88
was the priests name father Ritko?

wallis	Oct 4, 09, 12:29 #89
sorry i forgot to mention my father was Henryk Slabczynski,he was a captain in the 1st armoured division,he met my mother in wales,while he was recovering after being wounded,they moved back to Poland but returned in 1958 and settled in Swansea,his brother Richard was in the Polish Cavelry.

dzien_dobryThreads: - Posts: 1 Joined: Nov 5, 09 ♀	Nov 5, 09, 00:41 #90
My grandfather, Franciszek Borys, served in the 1st Polish armoured division. From a letter I found, it appears that he was the CO who helped liberate part of Stadskanaal (in The Netherlands). Does anyone know where I could find more information about the liberations which the division undertook (or would it mostly be in Polish - I don't speak the language)

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