help finding info about Naliborski

POLAND . The Unofficial Guide

caddyski	Edited by: Moderator Feb 22, 12, 04:37 #1
tried finding naliborski on most sites, none show anything close, anybody have any ideas, maybe other spellings?

♂

Edited by: boletus Feb 22, 12, 08:50 #2

caddyski:

tried finding naliborski on most sites, none show anything close, anybody have any ideas, maybe other spellings?

The bad news is, as you were already told - there is almost no connection between Naliborski name and Poland. One old record relates it to Great Poland province, another to small town Gołańcz in the same province, and that's about it. Statistically - nil. No Naliborski name appears in basic dictionaries of currently used surnames in Poland. There is though a young Polish tennis player named Joanna Nalborska, which only underlines the fact that to any rule there is always an exception.

But the good news is that you are not alone in this world and there are many people of that name in USA - specifically in Illinois and Michigan. But they do not have Polish sounding first names; they are Franks, Georges, Walters, Davids, Helens, Jessicas, etc. Some claim German, or - more specific - Prussian origin.

Check http://www.ancestry.com/name-origin?surname=naliborski
Related to Naliborski name, they collected there 73 census & voters lists, 102 Birth, Marriage and & Death certificates, 7 military records, 3 immigration records and 142 Member Family Trees established by people like you. Some services are free, some are free on trial basis - all you have to do is to sign in.

maksymThreads: 1 Posts: 37 Joined: Mar 21, 07 ♂	Feb 22, 12, 10:24 #3
Are you searching for information on a surname or town/village name?

caddyski

Feb 24, 12, 02:19 #4

searching for a surname, and maybe eventually finding coat of arms if any, comment on prussian possability have heard before, i was under the assumption that prussia was poland just carved up by germany, russia and other powers after polands fall from grace after the middle ages? i know for fact that my grandfathers grandparents were from poland and generations in u.s. were in the illinois areas, their might be ties to wisconsin as well.

♂

Feb 24, 12, 19:28 #5

With all due respect, why do you think Naliborski family (if it existed in Poland as such) had any coat of arms? The postfix -ski does not necessary signify any nobility. In the break-up of the feudal system in Europe, many of the Polish peasants were given names from the estate on which they worked, or from the fauna and flora around them, and carried these names with them to America. They often added a "ski" signifying a family of titled ancestry, but which in many cases was not valid.

After double checking I only found one short record in Polish sources, listed in book (1), related to name Naliborski in Poland: "Naliborski Julian, a carpenter from Warsaw, taken prisoner from the battlefield, sent to Siberia to work, died in Karnyszłow in April 1864." BTW, I do not know where Karnyszłow is.

On the other hand the name Nalborski (without "i") is not unpopular in Poland. According to Polishtoledo database, http://polishtoledo.com/lastnames.htm , there are 337 Nalborski names in Poland. Another database, MoiKrewni, http://www.moikrewni.pl/mapa/kompletny/nalborski.html , lists 143 people named Nalborski, in 38 districts, with 20 of them living in Tczew, former Prussia. This name does not seem to be connected with any coat of arms either. You could try following this track. There is however one major problem with it: the majority, if not all, of American Naliborski are spelt with "i".

For example. the records of baptisms at St. Michael the Archangel Catholic Church, Radom, Washington County, Illinois lists zero Nalborski names, but eight baptized Naliborski kids (1895 - 1906), with seven parents or witnesses of that name. The parish's marriage records (1875-1931) list six brides or grooms and two witnesses with Naliborski/ska name. No Nalborski either.

The story of the early Polish immigration to Wisconsin, and particularly to Portage County, published here(2) and here(3), mentions Naliborski only once (but not Nalbolrski):

And on Monday, May 4, 1891 the Polish people of the county and surrounding counties gathered at Stevens Point to celebrate the 100th anniversary of the adoption of the Polish constitution. The grand march down Main Street was headed by John Boyer, Joseph Moses
(Mozuch) and John Maslowski as "generals," and by John Borchardy, Andrew Kreiger, and E. C. Naliborski as ''marshals.''

But the story starts with explanation that those immigrants came mostly from Prussia (or more exactly from the former Polish Royal Prussia, around Gdańsk). They came almost one generation after Norwegians, Germans (from Pennsylvania), Irish, etc., so they got the rough deal with land quality and price. Most of them could not speak English, but they communicated with their neighbours in other languages - including German, or even Latin. The very first Polish immigrant to Portage County was Michael Koziczkowski, a lesser Kashubian noble - Koziczkowski coat of arms, http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koziczkowski, from Kożyczkowo (today: Kartuzy County, Pomeranian Province), http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kożyczkowo . He initially called himself Michael Von Koziczkowski, until he realized that the titles do not work in America, and so he dropped the German's VON. Most other Polish names mentioned in that article, with few exceptions, sound like commoner names. But there are some Polish-German connections in terms of common business.

The only American Nalborski that shows up here and there in American sources is August S. Nalborski, listed here: http://www.karljanssen.com/ps02/ps02_095.htm , whom I mentioned in the previous message. He was born on Aug 18, 1861, in Golancz, (Great Poland) Poland. He and his brothers Emil and Clement were listed as butchers. On the other hand Emil and Clement Naliborski (with "i") appear in the St. Michael records, mentioned before. So there might have been some confusion regarding the spelling.

References:
(1) Pamiątka dla rodzin polskich. Cz. 1 : krótkie wiadomości biograficzne o straconych na rusztowaniach, rozstrzelanych, poległych na polu boju oraz zmarłych w więzieniach, na tułactwie i na wygnaniu syberyjskiem : 1861-1866 r., Nowolecki Aleksander, http://www.pbi.edu.pl/book_reader.php?p=40378&s=1
[Memorial for Polish families. Part 1: Brief biographical information about those hanged on the gallows, shot, killed on the battlefields, and perished in prisons and in exile in Siberia, 1861-1866, Nowolecki Aleksander]

(2)http://library.uwsp.edu/pcl/history/ourcounty/images/00000007.pdf

(3)http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~wispags/history/ethnic-polish.htm l

♀

Edited by: polishmama Feb 24, 12, 19:43 #6

caddyski:

maybe eventually finding coat of arms if any

Most people do not have a coat of arms. Coat of arms are reserved for nobility, of which, just like today's mega wealthy few and billions of modern day peasantry, of which you and I are a part of, there were few and the peasants back then were the majority.

The only names in Polish coat of arms that start with an "N" are Nalecz and Nieczuja, neither of which your last name sounds like. Also, your last name having a coat of arms doesn't mean you are related to the nobility, it's a very complicated explanation. But simply, just like all "Johnson" family in a country are not related.

caddyski:

i was under the assumption that prussia was poland

No, Prussia was it's one culture and tribe.

http://www.moikrewni.pl/mapa/kompletny/naliborski.html Does not list your last name.

http://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?rank=0&gsln=Naliborski&db=n ypl&gss=genfact&_82004280=Poland I found this but your last name doesn't seem very common.

http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~wispags/history/ethnic-polish.html And this. But whether that person is related to you, idk. You need to trace back your family tree, not your last name. Assemble the names of all family members as far back as you can get first, then start from there. Otherwise, you really won't get started at all and will just be grasping for straws, which frankly, might not be the straws you were even meant to find.

I would contact a professional geneologist.

caddyski

Feb 24, 12, 23:09 #7

thanks for all the feed back, as far as the coat of arms i wasnt sure if any, not really my major concern, tracing back the family tree is what i have been doing, due to situations occured to the family over the years,i.e the depression, wars etc, a lot of infor has been lost or not handed down unfortunately. best i can tell i believe a relation to august naliborski is possible, also ties to naliborskis in portage county a possibility according to the story of the "brothers" coming over from poland told in the family. i guess my main want is not a coat of arms but rather to try and find where in the "old country" my family is from whatever country that might be. again, from what i can gather my great grandparent Frank and Martha spoke polish as well as my great great grandparents, they were residence in tamaroa illinois wich does have a polish community, unfortunately my grandfather, who had many siblings left home at a very yound age because of hardships due to the depression, only his youngest brother james and a sister were ever really talked about. again i appreciate all the info and links, i hope this will help find some info, also i believe the lack of "i" in some spellings is a reasonable issue as i myself have people mispronounce and mispell the name constantly, im sure most polish do.

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Feb 24, 12, 23:24 #8

No, most Polish don't misspell their own names.

However, Ellis Island and Americans being how they were to foreigners who weren't English, etc., would have butchered the names. I would suggest you contact the churches and cemetaries of the towns and counties you mentioned above which are in the US and get info using what you have. It would be where I would start from here. And I would trace the line that way.

WroclawThreads: 77 Posts: 7,404 Joined: Apr 1, 06 ♂ [Moderator]	Feb 24, 12, 23:32 #9
polishmama: Ellis Island didn't butcher names. names were checked against the ship's manifest

polishmamaThreads: 5 Posts: 300 Joined: Dec 2, 10 ♀	Feb 24, 12, 23:37 #10
Yes they were. Ppl would walk up, say their name and because immigrants didn't speak English in order to spell it using the English alphabet, the names were misspelled. You're talking hundreds of people coming through at a time 24/7. They did mispell names. Also, many poor immigrants didn't know how to write, just like many poor Americans and throughout the world at that time.

WroclawThreads: 77 Posts: 7,404 Joined: Apr 1, 06 ♂ [Moderator]	Feb 24, 12, 23:48 #11
polishmama: Also, many poor immigrants didn't know how to write, which is why the name was wrong on the manifest. or the person writing the name at the departure point, usually hamburg, for Poles, got it wrong. there is a whole history about this at genealogy.com

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Feb 24, 12, 23:48 #12

Between the time of buying a ticket and putting a name on the ship's manifest and getting to Ellis Island, it happened. Ppl would walk up, say their name and because immigrants didn't speak English in order to spell it using the English alphabet, the names were misspelled. Or were encouraged to go with an already misspelled version on the manifest. Or Americanize it.

I found some interesting links explaining it

http://thehistoricpresent.wordpress.com/2011/07/26/truth-v-myth-my-fam ilys-name-was-changed-at-ellis-island/

http://sydaby.eget.net/swe/journey.htm

WroclawThreads: 77 Posts: 7,404 Joined: Apr 1, 06 ♂ [Moderator]	Feb 24, 12, 23:58 #13
polishmama: I found some interesting links explaining it your first link agrees with me. i didn't look at the second link regardless of what i said. it is important that folks delve a little deeper into name changes and not accept a myth or accepted truth. genealogy is about checking every thing.

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Feb 25, 12, 00:08 #14

I think the main thing, first, for the OP is to trace back his own family before grasping at possibilities. Like I said, contact the towns in the US where for SURE his family lived, the names he knows for SURE are related to him, call the churches and cemeteries and court houses and trace back from there. Maybe he was once a Nalborski. Maybe he's not Polish. Maybe he is. Won't know without doing it the right way.

modafinilThreads: - Posts: 831 Joined: Jun 28, 11 ♂	Feb 25, 12, 00:15 #15
A cousin of mine told me his Grandfather (or could have been his GGF) immigrated into the US from Portugal and took the opportunity to knock five years of his age.

WroclawThreads: 77 Posts: 7,404 Joined: Apr 1, 06 ♂ [Moderator]	Feb 25, 12, 00:20 #16
polishmama: Won't know without doing it the right way. that is for certain. there are many threads with little and general tips, here on PF. as well as the genealogy resourses thread.

WroclawThreads: 77 Posts: 7,404 Joined: Apr 1, 06 ♂ [Moderator]	Edited by: Wroclaw Feb 25, 12, 00:24 #17
modafinil: immigrated into the US from Portugal and took the opportunity to knock five years of his age. some women added five years, here, after the war.

♂

Edited by: boletus Feb 25, 12, 13:32 #18

caddyski:

find where in the "old country" my family is from whatever country that might be. again, from what i can gather my great grandparent Frank and Martha

Connecting Frank+Martha from Tamaroa, IL with their descendants should be quite easy. I know for example about one of their sons, James Naliborski (1933-2011) and the grandson Robert, also deceased, I also learned about bunch of their surviving grandchildren and great grandchildren. The next step for you would be to go back in time to see if there is any relation between Frank+Martha Andrews Naliborski (1897-1975) and any of the brothers: August(1861-1933), Klemens/Clemens/Clement(1857-?), Emil(1867-?), etc. They were all born in Poland, probably in the same town as August - Gołańcz, Wielkopolska Province, formerly Posen province of Prussia.

August produced several daughters and some unmarried sons, so he is of no interest anymore. Klemens, Emil, George(?), Steve(?) moved to Radom, IL so you can stitch some data from St. Michael the Archangel Catholic Church records, at Radom, http://genealogytrails.com/ill/washington/church/olophcc/stm_baptisms. html (see also marriages and burials). They show, for example that Klemens got married in 1883 and produced several daughters and son Joseph. Similarly, Emil had several daughters and sons Joseph and Michael.

However, this manual approach is time consuming and error prone. There are tools, such as www. ancestry.com (which I already mentioned in post #2) that make such tasks much easier and more exact. You can built any family trees, navigate back and forth, cross-reference. But that requires you to at least register, or pay for some services. I am not willing to get involved that deep in your affairs and it is up to you to check any possible connections between Tamaroa, IL and the "butcher business" brothers, born in Gołańcz, today's Poland. BTW, trees of other families, related to Nalborski/Naliborski can be also of use to you. Check for example Pasternacki, or Felckowski trees.

If such connection is established then you would need to switch to Polish records. One very useful web page is "Poznan Marriage Indexing Project", http://poznan-project.psnc.pl/project.php . It consolidates searches through various parishes (Catholic, Lutheran, etc.) in the Prussian province of Posen (Today Wielkopolska Province, with its capital Poznań). This is where town of Golańcz (Gollantsch) is located, the birth town of August Nalborski and his brothers.

BTW, the town of Gołańcz suffered from plagues over the centuries and therefore its owners/rulers were bringing German and Jewish settlers there. Consequently it had mixed population. In 1871, it had 1281 inhabitants: 673 Catholics, 385 Evangelists, 243 Jews. Many people emigrated to America from this town in 19th century.

I will show you how to work with this project. The quick rough search in that database produces four records from that area - two exact and two approximate due to misspelling. I retained only groom records here.
1. Catholic parish in Gołańcz [Gollantsch], entry # 8 in 1821 score: Groom: 100% => Adam Nalborski (24)  + Joanna Makrzyńska (17)
2. Catholic parish in Gołańcz [Gollantsch], entry # 2 in 1822 score: Groom: 100% => Martinus Nalborski (23) + Rosalia Dąmbrowna (20)
3. Catholic parish in Chojna, entry # 3 in 1858 score: Groom: 87% => Joseph Nalberski (28)  + Rosalia Szarwark (22). Possible misspelling
4. Catholic parish in Gąsawa [Gonsawa], entry # 5 in 1851 score: Groom: 76% ==> Jacobus Nalborksi (28)   father: Valentinus,   mother: Marianna Beleg
Antonina Trechogiaka (33)     father: Simon,   mother: Marianna. Definite misspelling: Nalborksi, should be Nalborski.

These records are clickable. After selecting record 1, say, you will get something like this:
Our database only provides basic information to identify the spouses. There is no liability for the accuracy, as it depends on the quality of the record and the skills of the transcriber. The full information about the marriage can only be found in the original records.

The original record for this marriage is held in the Archdiocesan Archive in Gniezno, Poland.
To obtain a certificate or digital copy, you have to download the genealogical research request form, fill it in and send back to the address metryki@archidiecezja.pl.

Further genealogical research is also offered there.

Archiwum Archidiecezjalne w Gnieznie
Ul. Kolegiaty 2
62-200 Gniezno
POLAND

WWW: http://www.archiwum.archidiecezja.pl

E-mail: metryki@archidiecezja.pl

But the detailed services are not free. I have not investigated how much they cost, but be prepared for about $10 for a photocopy of a single record, I guess.

Good luck.

caddyski	Feb 26, 12, 04:33 #19
i didnt mean polish mispell their own names, i meant others mispell their names, especially like discussed here, someone who didnt write or speak english telling someone from immigration or ship log and having the name misspeld.

caddyski	Feb 26, 12, 04:40 #20
to boletus, thanks very much, james is my grandfathers brother and i knew him well, so as you stated, the start from frank and martha is the begining, all the info will help greatly. again thank you for the info and your time it is greatly appreciated.

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