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Manko, Federowicz, Baszczek, Zatwarnicka. Family history mystery.

posts: 29

♂

Dec 30, 09, 03:47 #1

Ok. I found an interesting document in an old book in my attic. It was made by one of my cousins, for my Great Grandmother that was basically a family tree. I now know some new things.
1) Confirmed family last names- Manko, Federowicz, Baszczek, Zatwarnicka and something along the lines of Hileisnicki? (sp? doesnt sound polish?)
2) an interesting story written in Polish by one of my Cousins. It entailed some of the following info. "When my parents fled Poland, they told me they would come back for me. With the German and Russian borders changing, they did not feel safe and left me (it was between the late 1890's and early 1910's- but not sure exactly) They said they would send for me but they never did. I was taken into Grandma's house and raised there..." it went on and on, but the main point that interested my was the border changing.
3) My grandparents history that we know.
A. Helena Manko- father's name was Teofil Manko and mother was Anna Baszczek. Her father was a forest ranger and her mother died when she was quite young. Her last place of residence was Polana, Austria before coming to US. Apparently, he family fled poland as well as was born in 1889. We do not know where she was born. She could not read or write in any language. She also spoke Russian, but never lived there. Was this common back then? Babcia had a sister who came to america before her, Katarzyna. But, her sister returned to Europe and married into the Zatwarnicka name. Helena also had a Brother (Jan) who lived in Pittsburg, PA. She told her kids that the boys were schooled in the family and girls were not aloud to go to school and stayed home to work in the house. Was this common?
B. Staśko Federowicz- father's name was Stanisław I believe and mother was Tillie Hileisnicki(sp?) He was an only child. He is the real mystery. His last place of residence is believed to be Teresnica, Austria. But we do not know for sure as with many things with him. We know his father was a tailor and mother is unknown. His family had a lot of money and he was (we are assuming) very well schooled as he could speak, read and write 6-7 languages (Polish, Russian, Austrian, German, Hebrew, Czech and we dont know the other one). Now, there are 2 stories that have been told. Both involve him and his family living on the Poland/Russian border or in Russia. Story #1- His parents paid for him to come to America and later changed his name from Federowicz to the current Fredericks. We do not know why he "chose" to change his name. everything seems to lead to him keeping things secretive. Story #2- The Russian Army was going around killing young men. So in fear of loosing him, they sent him with family or friends from their area under there name- thus it being changed to Fredericks. While in America, we got a hold of some Census' from 1910, 1920 and 1930. This is what he put for
1910- he was born in Austria as were both of his parents. they spoke polish and russian.
1920- he was born in Poland, his parents are from poland and they spoke austrian and polish.
1930- he was born in Poland, his parents from Austria and Russia and spoke only polish.

As the stories state, the families were fleeing PL. Was there anything going on at that time that would cause them to? I am assuming they didn't flee PL too long before my Grandparents were born as that would have been more influential to their customs?

Thanks Guys and i hope you can help!!

♂

Dec 30, 09, 09:53 #2

To give some clues:

There was no Poland after 1795 and before 1918 and no Polish borders before 1921 so the villages mentioned above which names sound Polish can be in Poland now, but back then they were in Austraia...
Poland was partitioned between Austria, Germany and Russia, so it was normal that people living under German or Russian government were speaking also German or Russian because it was the official language... Only in Austrian part (Galicia) Polish was also treated as official language because there was some sort of autonomy.
So living in Russia back then can mean living anywhere in today's central and eastern Poland (Warsaw was also in Russia).

Regards

Lukasz

♂

Edited by: Moderator Dec 30, 09, 15:07 #3

Cher Monsieur.

Vos ancêtres semblent tous être originaires d'une région située à l'extrême sud-est de la Pologne actuelle et dont le nom est Bieszczady.
De 1772 et jusqu'en 1919 cette région se situait dans la province "Galicia" qui faisait partie de l'Empire Austro-Hongrois. La langue que la majorité des habitants y parlaient été la langue Ruthène qui est une langue proche de l'Ukrainien. La plupart des gens étaient Grèco-Catholiques. Les langues utilisées par les autorités étaient l'Allemand et le Polonais. Le Polonais, parce que la noblesse, qui étaient de grands propiétaires terriens, étaient Polonais et ce depuis avant 1772. A la fin du dix-neuvième et au début du vingtième siècle cette région était très densément habitée, essentiellement par de petits fermiers. Aujourd'hui c'est la région la moins peuplée de l'Europe.
Pendant le dernier quart du dix-neuvième siècle et juqu'au début de la Première Guerre Mondiale, Il y eu une émigration massive de la population, surtout vers les U.S.A. et spécialement vers la Pennsylvanie. Les habitants de la région étaient très pauvres et la terre ne parvenait plus à nourrir le peuple. Des démacheurs Américains venaient y recruter des travailleurs. C'étaient surtout des travailleurs pour les charbonnages et les aciéries.
Ces démarcheurs leur prêtaient de l'argent pour le voyage. Au moins un quart de la population est partie pour les U.S.A. et bon nombre ne sont jamais retournés.
Après la Première Guerre Mondiale la région fut attribuée à la Pologne. Entre 1944 et 1946 une grande partie de la population fut expulsée vers l'Ukraine. En 1947, ce qui restait de la population Grèco-Catholique fut expulsée par l'Armée Polonaise vers la régions gagnés sur l'Allemagne. Voilà pourquoi la région est aujourd'hui désertique.
Les trois dernières années, j'ai à trois reprises visité cette région et j'y ai fait de nombreuses photos dont de Polana. Il y a aussi un village du nom de Zatwarnica non loin de Polana et je suis persuadé que certains de vos ancêtres étaient originaire de cet endroit.
I apologize, having written this message in French, because my English is not very good. You can always use de translating program of Google to have my message translated.
For more information in English visit de website "LEMKO.ORG"
With kind regards.
Whymickey.

Edit
Google translation of the above.

Dear Sir.

Your ancestors all seem to be originating from a region located in the extreme south-eastern Poland and present whose name is Bieszczady.
From 1772 until 1919 this area was within the province "Galicia" which was part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire. The language that most people there spoke was the Ruthenian language is a language close to Ukrainian. Most people were Greek Catholics. The languages used by the authorities were German and Polish. The Poles, because the nobility, who were great landowners Landlords were Polish and that since before 1772. In the late nineteenth and early twentieth century this area was densely inhabited mainly by small farmers. Today it is the least populated region of Europe.
During the last quarter of the nineteenth century and juqu'au beginning of the First World War, there was a mass emigration of the population, especially to the USA and especially to Pennsylvania. The locals were very poor and the land could no longer feed the people. Démacheurs of Americans came to recruit workers. They were mostly workers for the coal and steel.
These canvassers lent them money for the trip. At least one quarter of the population left for the U.S. and many never returned.
After the First World War the region was awarded to Poland. Between 1944 and 1946 much of the population was deported to Ukraine. In 1947, the remnants of the Greco-Catholic population was expelled by the Polish Army to the areas reclaimed from Germany. That is why the region is now desert.
The last three years, three times I visited this area and I made many photos which Polana. There is also a village named Zatwarnica near Polana and I'm sure some of your ancestors were originally from there.

Please remember that posts should only be in English.

♂

Edited by: Trevor Dec 30, 09, 18:36 #4

Lukasz K:

There was no Poland after 1795 and before 1918 and no Polish borders before 1921 so the villages mentioned above which names sound Polish can be in Poland now, but back then they were in Austraia...
Poland was partitioned between Austria, Germany and Russia, so it was normal that people living under German or Russian government were speaking also German or Russian because it was the official language... Only in Austrian part (Galicia) Polish was also treated as official language because there was some sort of autonomy.
So living in Russia back then can mean living anywhere in today's central and eastern Poland (Warsaw was also in Russia).

Regards

Lukasz

Thank You so much! I did not know that Poland wasn't actually Poland until 1918. They all came to America between that time. This was very very helpful!

Whymickey:

Your ancestors all seem to be originating from a region located in the extreme south-eastern Poland and present whose name is Bieszczady.
From 1772 until 1919 this area was within the province "Galicia" which was part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire. The language that most people there spoke was the Ruthenian language is a language close to Ukrainian.

And thank you! I looked back at My grandfather's paper from Ellis Island (though vague) he put his ethinicity as Austrian, Ruthenian. But he told us his main language was Polish. Common or not? OOO OOO! I just went back into the records and looked up my Grandmother's Sister- Katarzyna- her last place of residence was Vuszko, Galicia She has her ethinicity as Austrian. While my grandma has her's as Austria Polish. Again, does this have to do with poland not being a country and they could have lived in what today is poland, but was before (in this case) Austria?

TrevorThreads: 8 Posts: 74 Joined: May 5, 09 ♂	Edited by: Trevor Dec 30, 09, 18:57 #5
I hope this works.... does this represent how there was no poland in 1871????? http://etc.usf.edu/maps/pages/6900/6933/6933.htm

♀

Dec 31, 09, 10:54 #6

Trevor:

While my grandma has her's as Austria Polish. Again, does this have to do with poland not being a country and they could have lived in what today is poland, but was before (in this case) Austria?

Poland had been partitioned by Austria, Prussia and Russia and its existence wiped off the map. Poles consider those parts still to be Poland but under the rule of whichever partitioner. Some parts came under different rulers, as in the instance of SE Poland - once under Austrian rule, then Russian and now Polish. Sometimes surnames were modified to the phonetics of the given ruler making it in some cases difficult (but not impossible) to trace ancestors.

Where the ethnicity is stated as Polish, you can be sure the roots are Polish.

Ruthenians had the same issues.

TrevorThreads: 8 Posts: 74 Joined: May 5, 09 ♂	Jan 3, 10, 15:06 #7
caprice49: Ruthenians had the same issues. and what exactly are Ruthenians?

caprice49Threads: 4 Posts: 288 Joined: Aug 5, 09 ♀	Jan 4, 10, 14:23 #8
Trevor: what exactly are Ruthenians? Eastern Slavic people from Rus (historically small parts of Russia, Ukraine, Belarus, Poland northern Slovakia. If you google Ruthenia you will find more details

♂

Feb 16, 10, 02:14 #9

Feb 17, 10, 04:32 - Thread attached on merging:
Family History, Confirmed information!

Cześć! I was visiting mój polska babcia and she showed me this book of a lot of family history, almost like a family tree, all the way up to my generation. (5 in total)

Ok, so my great-great grandmother was Helena Manko. Her father was Teofil (Manko) and her mother was Anna Baszczak. All together, there were 9 children. Jan, Katarzyna, Adrej, Maria, Elizbietat, Anna, Helena(grandmother), Franciszel, Stanisław. Jan, Katarzyna and Helena are the only ones who came to America. The rest were in Poland, while Maria was written as being in "ZSRR", I'm guessing this is Russia?

Katarzyna married Michał Zatwarnicki in Poland. They had their first 2 children in Poland, and had the remaining 5 in America. Now, their oldest, Aniela(born PL) was taken with them to USA (later came back to marry, settled in PL) while they left the boy (Jozef) to be raised by Teofil. Their was an address of some sort pertaining to Aniela. This is what I could make out- Aniela Cotalik(sp, couldn't make out the handwriting)
38-709 Polana
Polana 16 (or LB??)
POLSKA
Can this tell you anything??

Mój Polska babcia says that My gg-grandfather (Helena's husband) was part russian, by his dad's side. His name was Staśko or Staszko (written in polish by the way she says his name-Stashko) Frederowicz. He went by Stanley in the US, but the "kids" knew his name as Staś/sz.
His father was listed as Stanley (Frederowicz) so I'm guessing his name was Staś/szko as well. Is this Russian name for Stanley, or polish??? His mother was Tillie (common name?) Hataleinickie. Or would she be Russian?
His family was "well to do" and apparently had alot of money. My gg-grandfather could read, write and speak 5 languages (english, polish, russian, german and czech) and could only speak Jewish. My Polska Babcia says that he was just very well schooled, but we don't know for sure.
Helena and Staś/sz met in US and had 12 kids. (Rusty, Stanley, Benjamin, Rose, Helen, Tillie, Alexander, Stella, Alice, Anna, Frank and Denda*nickname, not sure of his real name)
Helen is my "Polska Babcia" hence, my great grandmother (88 yrs old).

That is all we know. I am hoping the address can give me something to work with.

I hope you can help me!

Dzięki!
Trevor

♀

Edited by: asik Feb 16, 10, 04:16 #10

Trevor:

38-709 Polana
Polana 16 (or LB??)
POLSKA
Can this tell you anything??

38-709 is a post code in the village called Polana
16 is a house number in Polana

LB is Liczba na Budynku and means: House number (exactly: Number on the Building)

About Polana:http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polana_%28powiat_bieszczadzki%29
In English: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polana,_Bieszczady_County

Trevor:

Their was an address of some sort pertaining to Aniela. This is what I could make out- Aniela Cotalik(sp, couldn't make out the handwriting)

If SP is in the address it means Szanowna Pani in English means Madam or Ms or Mrs.

"ZSRR", I'm guessing this is Russia? Means Soviet Russia

♂

Feb 16, 10, 18:59 #11

COTALIK: does not exist in today's Poland (which does not mean it never did; but if it did the meaning would be quite obscure and uncertain)
ZATWARNICKI: a good Polish name (toponymic nick from Zatwarnica)
MAŃKO: exists in Poland; possibly from Maniek (hypocoristic form of Marian)
BASZCZAK: possibly patronymic nick for someone whose dad was called Ba(r)szcz, perhaps for hailing from Barszcze or Barszczewo
HATALEINICKIE: ???? this has got to be a gross misspelling; tried different spellings in HAT and GAT but couldn't find anything even close; if it was to be Polish, then something such as Gatelnicki or Hatelnicki would probably be the most plausible (albeit non-existent) variants
TILLIE: English pet form of the Polish first name Otylia
STANISLAV: more popular in Poland (Stanisław) but definitely known and used in Russia;
Сташко could have been a Russian pet form.

♂

Feb 16, 10, 19:51 #12

asik:

38-709 is a post code in the village called Polana
16 is a house number in Polana

LB is Liczba na Budynku and means: House number (exactly: Number on the Building)

Oh my gosh, Thank You sooo much! This gives my a lot of information, because Polana used to be part of Austria, which is where my GG Grandmother (Helena) is listed to be from on Ellis Island! Yay!

asik:

If SP is in the address it means Szanowna Pani in English means Madam or Ms or Mrs.

"ZSRR", I'm guessing this is Russia? Means Soviet Russia

I think COTALIK was her last name, and i put SP because i wasn't sure of the spelling.

Polonius3:

I think COTALIK was her married last name, but I am not sure.

HATALENICKI- We do not know how it was spelt, in the book, it was like this "HATALENICKI (sp??) so they didn't know the spelling either so it could be Gatelnicki or Hatelnicki.

STANISLAV- I am thinking that him being know as Stash, that his father was russian, as they shared the same name. And isn't "Сташко" Pronounced "Stashko"??? My russian reading is very bad, but I know some basics.

This is truly amazing! That we finally have some answers!

Dzięki Bardzo!!!!!!!!!!!!
Trevor

Polonius3Threads: 1,005 Posts: 4,833 Joined: Apr 11, 08 ♂	Feb 17, 10, 00:02 #13
Maybe it was Cofalik? Could you have taken a handwritten F to be a T? A cofalnik or cofanik was once a bar used to immobiise a sawmill or other mechanical device. There are some 180 Cofaliks in today's Poland, nearly all of them living in the Greater Katowice area.

♂

Feb 17, 10, 01:30 #14

Polonius3:

Maybe it was Cofalik? Could you have taken a handwritten F to be a T? A cofalnik or cofanik was once a bar used to immobiise a sawmill or other mechanical device.
There are some 180 Cofaliks in today's Poland, nearly all of them living in the Greater Katowice area.

It could have been. It definitely had CO(T/F)ALIK

From where Aniela Cot/falik settled in Polana, It seems quite far, but they could have re-located. I found a letter written to family in PL, but it was and typed from an original copy, so I could have no address. The only address I have is the one in Polana of Aniela. Aniela is my GG Grandma's niece. My GG Grandma is definately 100% polish, no doubt about it. Since here father was a forest ranger, to do you think I could find anything about him online? Any records that would give me locations etc.

And as far as my GG Grandfather goes, Stanley AKA "Сташко" Frederowicz, I only know his father was a Tailor. And if they lived in Russia (as his father's side is apparently russian), I couldn't find any info about him or his father. Because if they lived in Russia, I wouldn't know what to search, as it would be in russian, especially the names.
By the way, is Сташко pronounced as STASHKO? My russian is horrible, but i think that's how it is said phonetically

♀

Feb 17, 10, 02:34 #15

Trevor:

By the way, is Сташко pronounced as STASHKO? My russian is horrible, but i think that's how it is said phonetically

Yes, it's pronounced as Stashko . In Polish Staszko and it could be a shortened version of Polish first name Stanisław . Stanisław in short could be: Staś, Staszek, Staszko, Stasiek, Stasiu.

Stanisław is Stanley in English.

Are you sure the surname is Frederowicz or it is Federowicz. I used to know a Polish national with Federowicz surname.

asik:

"ZSRR", I'm guessing this is Russia? Means Soviet Russia

I want to add, ZSRR (CCCP) the Soviet Russia or Soviet Union used to include all the former Republics like: Ukraine and many more.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Union

It doesn't always mean that if the person used to live in the former territory of ZSSR (Soviet Union) was of Russian origin. Many Polish nationals were living in the ZSSR area as well.

♂

Feb 17, 10, 02:59 #16

asik:

es, it's pronounced as Stashko . In Polish Staszko and it could be a shortened version of Polish first name Stanisław . Stanisław in short could be: Staś, Staszek, Staszko, Stasiek, Stasiu.

Stanisław is Stanley in English.

Are you sure the surname is Frederowicz or it is Federowicz. I used to know a Polish national with Federowicz surname.

I always though everyone calling him "Staś" meant he was polish. But now that my G Grandma said he was part Russian, there is no way of telling if it was polish, or russian. he had no other relatives in US so we cannot go by any of that. He was an only child and his parents stayed in Europe.
I do not know for sure about the last name! When he came to America, to was changed to Frederick or Fredericks, can't remember. My family says that Frederowicz (or Federowicz) means Frederick(s) in Polish. But i am not sure. On Ellis Island it says Federowicz (but they butchered everyones name) and in the book we have, it says Frederowicz. So it's unsure what to say.
He could (as i said before) speak 6 languages. Was it common that the richer families could send their children to many schools to learn the languages? Was it private schooling? Is it more complex then that, like, his family being involved in the Russian or whoever was richer at the time. I figured at this time, not many people had good money, but his family does. Any anwers?

asik:

I figured this so. Well, since the rest of the family was from Polana area, I'm sure she moved and settled in "Soviet Union." I am not sure if it would now be Poland, Russia or Ukraine. It's either of those. Since only 3 of the 9 came to america, Helena (my GG Grandma) stayed in contact with her sister Katarzyna (in Long Island, NY) and Katarzyna kept in contact with the family in PL. As did her husband's family (they are the Zatwarnicki)
this is all so much infomation to take in at once. hahahah, well its my fault for being so nosy. I am the only one trying to trace back our history on the Polish side. I'm trying my best!

Trevor

asikThreads: 2 Posts: 547 Joined: Feb 17, 09 ♀	Feb 17, 10, 04:23 #17
Trevor: Was it private schooling? If he was from a noble or rich family it could be home schooling with a private tutor/teacher. Trevor: My family says that Frederowicz (or Federowicz) means Frederick(s) in Polish. Frederic is in French and Fryderyk in Polish, like the Polish pianist Fryderyk Chopin, who also used French version of his first name when in France.

asikThreads: 2 Posts: 547 Joined: Feb 17, 09 ♀	Feb 17, 10, 05:11 #18
I didn't know that Trevor already had earlier posts regarding the same matter - thx moderator for moving his last post where it should be. Trevor - it makes much easier if you keep one topic in one post. That way it is easier and quicker to uncover some facts without guessing what's already is uncovered.

♂

Feb 17, 10, 13:12 #19

asik:

If he was from a noble or rich family it could be home schooling with a private tutor/teacher.

Ok thank you.

asik:

Frederic is in French and Fryderyk in Polish, like the Polish pianist Fryderyk Chopin, who also used French version of his first name when in France.

I know for sure it is either Frederowicz or Federowicz.

asik:

I didn't know that Trevor already had earlier posts regarding the same matter - thx moderator for moving his last post where it should be.

Trevor - it makes much easier if you keep one topic in one post.
That way it is easier and quicker to uncover some facts without guessing what's already is uncovered.

I am sorry! I had forgotten I had made another thread previously :(

trevor

♂

Feb 18, 10, 07:53 #20

FEDEROWICZ: patronymic* niccmeanign Theodore's son.

* In Polish, patronymic nicks evolved into proper surnamnes. In Russian tradition to this day they form a person's middle name and indicate paternity. Eg If a Viktor Bielov's father had been baptised Piotr, the the son's full proper signature would be:
Viktor Piotrovich Bielov. If the ancestor you refer to as Stashko ws living in a Polish setting, he may have dropped his original surname and used the patronymic as his nazwisko????

TrevorThreads: 8 Posts: 74 Joined: May 5, 09 ♂	Apr 5, 10, 03:35 #21
Is there any way I could contact someone (on here maybe?) That lives IN Polana???? Since it is such a small village, I don't know how possible it'd be. My family is curious as to how much family (if any) we have there.

♂

Sep 17, 10, 03:09 #22

UPDATE!

we have found an old frecord of my great great grandfather's birth place!!!!!! He has it as Podwolczyska, Poland. Any information on this place? Is it even still in Poland?

And, on the same record he has his mothers name (what we cant make out of it, its very old and has been copied a few times) as either
1. Tillie Hatalewick (with possible ending "i")
2. Tillie Halalewick (possible ending "i")
3. Tillie Hałalewick (possible ending "i")

That is what i could make out of her name. Any ideas?
Dziękuję

SoftsongThreads: 6 Posts: 588 Joined: Sep 2, 07 ♀	Sep 17, 10, 03:37 #23
Have you googled the name Podwolczyska? I found a few things one of which: Skalat, Ukraine (Pages 1-9) It passes through Podwolczyska, Tarnorude and many other villages. The town Skalat, in the Tarnopol district of Galicia, formerly part of Poland, ... www.jewishgen.org/yizkor/skalat1/ska001.html - Cached

TrevorThreads: 8 Posts: 74 Joined: May 5, 09 ♂	Sep 17, 10, 13:16 #24
Ok thanks! So now, it'd current location is ukraine?

Polonius3Threads: 1,005 Posts: 4,833 Joined: Apr 11, 08 ♂	Sep 17, 10, 14:16 #25
The Hatalewicz surname exists in Poland, and 24 of its some 3 dozen bearers live in the recovered lands, so originally they must have hailed from east of today's border.

♀

Sep 17, 10, 19:51 #26

The quote refers to Skalat, as being part of Ukraine, but mentions your village in passing. It may or may not be in the Ukraine. It is apparently nearby though. If you google the name of the village you can find the entire article and read it and get a better idea. I did not have the time, but was pleased to see that there were references to your village online.

I am sure you will find more. Google is your friend. :-)

TrevorThreads: 8 Posts: 74 Joined: May 5, 09 ♂	Sep 18, 10, 23:30 #27
So, from what i get, is that Podwoloczyska is now near Ternopil', Ternopil's'ka, Ukraine. Would this area be considered Ruthenia? As he listed himself as Ruthenian Polish on his record.

Joe FedThreads: 1 Posts: 1 Joined: Aug 12, 11 ♂	Aug 12, 11, 16:03 #28
Merged: Trying to find information about the Federowicz family I am in the US and working on our family tree. My grandfather came over from Poland in the early 1900's I just started working on this so at this time I have very little info, just our name FEDEROWICZ Does anyone have any info?

s fredericks	Nov 29, 11, 02:57 #29
I have read your posts with great interest. My name is Stanley Fredericks. Your great great grand parents were my grandparents. although I have limited information on the family history I would enjoy sharing what I have. How should we correspond?

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