Mongolian the Golden Horde - do Poles have Mongolian ancestry?

sjeffreysThreads: 1 Posts: 2 Joined: Jul 22, 08 ♀	Jul 22, 08, 14:17 #1
Is there any evidence that polish people have mongolian ancestry? I feel like I have some of their facial characteristics, as well as my father. Just curious.

JustysiaSThreads: 15 Posts: 2,869 Joined: Oct 14, 07 MEMBER ♀	Jul 22, 08, 14:24 #2
or maybe you simply have some asian ancestors...

♂

Jul 22, 08, 14:35 #3

There are some people in Poland of Tatar ancestry (within whom there may be some Mongolian admixture). They form a small minority in certain places. By and large, the Mongolian presence in the Polish gene pool would be best described as minimal to almost non-existent.

There is, however, a difference between the terms Mongolian (the nationality of ethnic group), Mongolic (a group of languages and the speakers thereof) and Mongoloid (a racial type which is not particularly clearly defined, as none of the racial groups really are, particularly considering how blurred they can be at the edges and how much variety there can be amongst them).

As for the kind of facial features you mentioned, there is something within certain Eastern European facial characteristics that may be shared with dwellers of the other end of the continent. I think it is more noticeable in Russians and Finns than in Poles, and it may be to do with some common heritage of some Northern Asian groups of people with some Eastern European groups, stretching back into prehistory.

♂

Edited by: Administrator Jul 22, 08, 14:41 #4

Mongolian admixture in Poland

Transfus Med. 2003 Jun;13(3):161-3.

The first example of anti-Diego(b) found in a Polish woman with the Di(a+b-) phenotype and haemolytic disease of the newborn not requiring treatment.

Lenkiewicz B, Zupanska B.

All pregnant women with anti-Diegob (anti-Dib) described so far were non-Caucasians. We present the case of a Polish Di(a+b-) woman with anti-Dib, which did not bind complement, was immunoglobulin G3 (IgG3) alone and had very low functional activity. She delivered a Di(a+b+) infant with a positive direct antiglobulin test and the antibody in his serum but very mild haemolytic disease. Both parents of the pregnant woman were Di(a+b+), so were all her three children. The whole family have been living in a small village in southeastern Poland for a long time. The rare Diego phenotypes, found now and previously in Poland, suggest gene admixture introduced as a result of Poland being invaded by Mongolian-background Tatars during the past centuries.

http://dienekes.50webs.com/blog/archives/000376.html

♀

Jul 22, 08, 14:48 #5

The last part makes sense. I'm only 1/4 pole but look very much like my grandmother who is full pole, and my father who is half. But whenever my dad is in Russia they think he is native russian.

We have high cheekbones, dark small squinty eyes, sloping noses with a little ball on the end, thin lips and sort of blocky shaped heads. I don't know if those are Polish traits or not. I have no asian ancestors.

rockThreads: 6 Posts: 1,493 Joined: Jun 13, 08 ♂	Jul 22, 08, 14:55 #6
Tatars are Turkic. A Turk can understand a Tatar when he/she speaks but can not understand a Mongolian. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tatars

McCoyThreads: 46 Posts: 1,756 Joined: Jul 3, 08 ♂	Edited by: McCoy Jul 22, 08, 15:13 #7
from wikipedia: ...a fusion of Mongol and Turkic elements took place, and the invaders of Rus and Hungary became known to Europeans as Tatars... some tatars look more asian and some more european - first two guys from the right: about polish tatars and golden orde ( in polish) : http://www.planetaislam.com/historia/tatarzy/orda.html

sjeffreysThreads: 1 Posts: 2 Joined: Jul 22, 08 ♀	Jul 22, 08, 15:29 #8
What information do I need to begin searching back my family tree? I have very little information. And, would it even be traceable back that far? To the Tatars?

BrzoskaThreads: - Posts: 1 Joined: Aug 26, 08 ♂	Edited by: Brzoska Aug 26, 08, 00:25 #9
The Mongolians invaded Poland several times.Of course alot of Polish people have Mongolian ancestry somewhere down the line.My mother looks Mongolian,and she is Polish.Turkish people,Jewish people,Mongolians,and most of all Slavic people make up the ancestry of the Polish,as well as some other groups.

SSpringerThreads: 6 Posts: 67 Joined: Sep 19, 07 ♂	Aug 26, 08, 11:22 #10
i have been told that the Ukranians have Mongolian in them? is that true?

McCoyThreads: 46 Posts: 1,756 Joined: Jul 3, 08 ♂	Aug 26, 08, 11:24 #11
yeap, every ukrainian has one little mongol inside.

ArcticPaulThreads: 49 Posts: 245 Joined: Apr 7, 08 ♂	Aug 26, 08, 12:42 #12
sjeffreys: What information do I need to begin searching back my family tree? I have very little information. And, would it even be traceable back that far? To the Tatars Very few families know their tree as far back as that. European aristocrats may but very few others do.

SSpringerThreads: 6 Posts: 67 Joined: Sep 19, 07 ♂	Aug 27, 08, 11:39 #13
McCoy: Quote \| Reply McCoy Yesterday, 11:24 Report #11 yeap, every ukrainian has one little mongol inside. ok cool good to know... the family story is that we are decendents of ganghis khan

SashaThreads: 2 Posts: 1,597 Joined: Apr 19, 08 ♂	Aug 27, 08, 11:43 #14
SSpringer: ok cool good to know... the family story is that we are decendents of ganghis khan Don't take it seriously. It's quite the same as saying every Pole keeps a Mongolian or Jew inside.

SSpringerThreads: 6 Posts: 67 Joined: Sep 19, 07 ♂	Aug 27, 08, 15:13 #15
Sasha: SSpringer: ok cool good to know... the family story is that we are decendents of ganghis khan Don't take it seriously. It's quite the same as saying every Pole keeps a Mongolian or Jew inside. story was passed down from my great great grand parents who came from the Ukraine.. so im trying to find out about it lol

ArcticPaulThreads: 49 Posts: 245 Joined: Apr 7, 08 ♂	Aug 28, 08, 10:06 #16
DNA would show your ancestral makeup.....but I wouldn't know to start arranging it?

SSpringerThreads: 6 Posts: 67 Joined: Sep 19, 07 ♂	Aug 28, 08, 20:14 #17
ArcticPaul: ArcticPaul Today, 10:06 Report #16 DNA would show your ancestral makeup.....but I wouldn't know to start arranging it? i dont know much about DNA testing, My great great grandparents on my dads moms,dads side. any info is great :)

SashaThreads: 2 Posts: 1,597 Joined: Apr 19, 08 ♂	Aug 28, 08, 22:34 #18
SSpringer: story was passed down from my great great grand parents who came from the Ukraine.. so im trying to find out about it lol I simply meant that McCoy: yeap, every ukrainian has one little mongol inside. was a crap. Are you trying to find out who are you genetically? Then DNA-test is an appropriate solution.

McCoyThreads: 46 Posts: 1,756 Joined: Jul 3, 08 ♂	Aug 29, 08, 05:09 #19
Sasha: Are you trying to find out who are you genetically? I already know. pure polish sarmatia, ruski kalmuku

♂

Aug 29, 08, 13:18 #20

Sasha:

Sasha
Yesterday, 22:34 Report #18

SSpringer:

story was passed down from my great great grand parents who came from the Ukraine.. so im trying to find out about it lol

I simply meant that

McCoy:

yeap, every ukrainian has one little mongol inside.

was a crap.

Are you trying to find out who are you genetically? Then DNA-test is an appropriate solution.

Do you recommend any specific test? like i stated earlier.. I dont know anything about DNA testing :)

The Ukraine/mongolian is on.. My dads,moms,dads side :)

Papagena

Sep 6, 08, 20:02 #21

I've also always suspected that our Polish-on-four-sides ancestry had a little Tatar or Jewish or something "different" thrown in for good luck. My dad was the spittin' image of the second guy from the right in that photo. And his sister had high cheekbones, slanted eyes, the whole nine yards. I see no one on this site gives their surname; let's just say that my dad's surname--which we've traced back to the 1600s in the part of Poland his side comes from--is a given name in Turkish-speaking countries. His family is from the northeast corner, right where Poland, Belarus, Lithuania, etc., all come together. Which is Poland's melting pot. And to top it off, my great-grandfather was illegitimate; he got the family name, but may or may not have had the family genes, so he's a real wild card. Do I think all this is very, very cool? You bet!

Esti Veneti

Sep 19, 08, 15:27 #22

Hello all of you ...,
I guess, the starting point should be that all so called "white" race is just an offspring of so-called "yellow" one. SO, Welcome TO CHINA AGAIN !
If you think, there is something like a "Polish race or genes"...well...you should know, or remind yourself, that Slovians came to nowadays Polish area not sooner than in V-VI century, together with Awars, Sarmatians, and...most of that probably with Huns...On site had been already present Goths, Celts, Romans, etc....By the way, do you know, that Jan III Sobieski, the former Polish king , has a Turkish grandmother ?, that's why he's got brown eyes; but he couldn' find a wife in Poland....
Ciao,
Esti Veneti

Esti Veneti	Sep 19, 08, 15:30 #23
...and, remember (till your better times): Polish and Hungarians ARE nephews...That's true, not a proverb. Ciao

southernThreads: 116 Posts: 10,955 Joined: May 17, 07 ♂	Sep 19, 08, 18:13 #24
sjeffreys: Is there any evidence that polish people have mongolian ancestry? No.

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Sep 19, 08, 21:02 #25

Brzoska:

.Of course alot of Polish people have Mongolian ancestry somewhere down the line.My mother looks Mongolian,and she is Polish

southern:

No.

Yes sir, there is evidence. Unless you have seen the Polish populace closely...

The North Easterns have a big percentage.. its not only visible but its even feelable :). The tatars as mentioned here... are on Mongoloid ancestry. There are semi-tataristic people (christians... but cross with tatar man/woman as ancestor).

The Polish Tatars however (Moslem or Christian) are more Polish than mongoloid (perhaps... 70/30 or 80/20). But still... the ancestry is there.

The whole of Poland... I would say... 60% of or population have some kind of Mongoloid ancestry... Due to the history we have with them... and their most obvious influences.

Good luck in your search

Esti Veneti

Sep 20, 08, 04:55 #26

Hello Lodz_The_Boat !
I agree with You, with one (last but not least...) exception...: all people here and there talk about ancestors like it were only down till grandparents, like the world begun before The II World War...
I mean, that, for example, if one of my grandmothers or grandfathers was Tatar (and the rest of any other genotype): than I should have some 25 % of Tatarian genes in my total genes pool; but: what if it happened 500 years ago ? Or 1500 years ago ? What would be a percentage ???
Moreover, it's not the same: Mongols and Tatars, even as a nationality or e gene pool. Tatars were like soldiers of subjugated countries (say: Krym and Greek colonies, Ukraina. Moldavia, etc.); so, Tatars could be either brown, white, tall or short...It is also possible, that some Greeks or Armenians were "Tatars" soldiers of a Chan (Hun). So, please don't say: 70/30 or even 80/20, unless you mean somebody who has a Tatar (or Mongol or anybody) GRANDPARENT ancestor.

Ciao

Lodz_The_BoatThreads: 58 Posts: 2,314 Joined: Sep 7, 08 ♂	Sep 20, 08, 05:00 #27
Esti Veneti: 70/30 or even 80/20, unless you mean somebody who has a Tatar (or Mongol or anybody) GRANDPARENT ancestor. friend... they LOOK like a tatar! That why I say... I can say from 10 hands away who is from the NorthEast of Poland! lol! The way they talk, walk... look... allll is easy to trace! I am a native here....not many of the PF members can say that about themselves though

konik	Sep 20, 08, 05:33 #28
Lodz_The_Boat: friend... they LOOK like a tatar! That why I say... I can say from 10 hands away who is from the NorthEast of Poland! lol! BS !!! :)

southernThreads: 116 Posts: 10,955 Joined: May 17, 07 ♂	Sep 20, 08, 05:41 #29
Lodz_The_Boat: The whole of Poland... I would say... 60% of or population have some kind of Mongoloid ancestry No,the Mongols have the classic mongolic spot in a high percentage of the population.Also shape of eyes and nose is different.No relationship to Poles. I have seen some Russians mixed but no Poles.

Esti Veneti	Sep 20, 08, 06:20 #30
Yeah, friend, it could be ! Maybe it's because of so-called "Wisła" action after The II World War, when hundreds thousand of people were moved from Ukraina border with Poland to "new lands" on North-east, North-west and South-west of nowadays Poland... Some Ukrainians may be prsumably Tatars - others are, indeed. Ciao

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