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Mongolian the Golden Horde - do Poles have Mongolian ancestry?

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WhiteGoddess

Aug 1, 09, 22:34 #91

Poland's ancestry, from the 4th century on, is Slavic. Slavics are an indo-European group (meaning white, no Asian). So sorry to disappoint anyone who wants to have a little Mongoloid ancestry but the vast majority of Poles do not. The very few Mongols who were left in the area now known as Poland before the 4th century were absorbed into the Slavic population. Modern Poles are Slavic and only Slavic; therefore, white. And the same for Ukrainians. No Mongoloid. The Finnish and Swedish, however, do have some with significant admixture.

Remember if you see a person in Europe who appears to be something other than white, perhaps they are not ethnic European. Perhaps they or recent generations are from elsewhere. The vast, vast majority of Europeans are ethnic Europeans even if you really try to be something other than just plain old white.

WhiteGoddess	Aug 1, 09, 22:36 #92
Revision: NOT ALL SWEDES AND FINNS HAVE MONGOLOID ADMIXTURE! Just a very small group. You could see the same in the United States. It's a white majority but there are bi-racial blacks there as well.

WhiteGoddess	Aug 1, 09, 22:39 #93
That doesn't mean they mixed with them. An invasion doesn't equal a beautifully mixed society. Usually an invasion means turmoil.

chauduyphanvu	Aug 2, 09, 03:34 #94
I wouldn't say that some Poles might have Mongolian ancestry but I would say that some Poles might have Mongolian physical characteristics due to the invasions led by Genghis Khan and his sons into Eastern Europe and Poland - and no one would ever know if the soldiers married some of the original Poles and have children.

♀

Aug 2, 09, 05:58 #95

WhiteGoddess:

You could see the same in the United States. It's a white majority but there are bi-racial blacks there as well.

It's a myth that different races who live together and invade one another do not create offspring. It always happens. Look at all the bi-racial people over here. We aren't the only ones, either. It was just recently that military personnel were forbidden from creating bi-racial kids in countries they invaded.

WhiteGoddess

Aug 4, 09, 19:46 #96

Yes, but the Mongols were gone from the area now known as Poland before the Slavs set in. So if there was mixing, it was not with Slavs because they were not in the area at the time. After the Mongols left the area, the Slavs settled there. Slavs are an indo-European group, therefore, fully white. So as much as modern Poles or Ukrainians may WANT, WISH and HOPE to have Mongolian ancestry, they don't. They're just "plain, old" white folks. :)

SashaThreads: 2 Posts: 1,558 Joined: Apr 19, 08 ♂	Aug 4, 09, 20:11 #97
WhiteGoddess: WhiteGoddess I like reading your unscientific fiction. Keep it up! :)

♂

Aug 4, 09, 20:14 #98

WhiteGoddess:

Yes, but the Mongols were gone from the area now known as Poland before the Slavs set in.

wrong

first of all Mongol (sensu-stricte) raids on Poland (or say a Mongol raid on Poland) happened in 1249 (siege of Kraków, battle of Legnica)

then elements of Mongol tribes (not only mongol but also Turkic) settled in Crimea (other post Mongol statehoods were for example Golden Horde in the lower run of Volga)

there were multiple raids by Crimean Tatars (of at least partial Mongol origin) on the lands of Polish Kingdom and Grand Duchy of Lithuania the last significant during the Cossack wars (1640's 50's) or maybe the Transsylvanian invasion of Rakocsy

Tatar raids were mainly to plunder and take slaves which were later sold into Ottoman Empire

even before the Mongols sensu stricte arrived in Europe there were peoples of mongoloid features who definitely had some contact (invaded, lived among) Slavic peoples - these were first Huns then the Avars - it is even thought that Avars promoted settlement of Slavic people further and further south (colonization of the Balkans) - Poland and Czechoslovak lands and perhaps Pannonia were already colonized by Slavic people by the time Avars arrived there. Avars settled mostly on Pannonian plains and they somehow created a mixed Avaro-Slavic statehood but it is quite easily imagined that they performed raids to the lands north of the Carpathians were the ancestors of Polish tribes lived

so there were multiple instances some genetic mongoloid features could enter into Polish society

z_dariusThreads: 22 Posts: 5,091 Joined: Oct 18, 07 ♂	Aug 4, 09, 20:20 #99
gumishu: first of all Mongol (sensu-stricte) raids on Poland (or say a Mongol raid on Poland) happened in 1249 (siege of Kraków, battle of Legnica) I believe the siege of Krakow was in 1240 and Legnica 1241.

gumishuThreads: 13 Posts: 3,634 Joined: Apr 6, 09 ♂	Aug 4, 09, 20:44 #100
ok - I got it from the top of my head ;) you are perhaps right I haven't checked it before writing - just remembered 124 thing ;)

gascoThreads: - Posts: 3 Joined: Aug 6, 09 ♀	Aug 6, 09, 05:30 #101
I am trying to find out the same thing. My son's 1/2 sister tested her genetics and it confirms that she has Asian genes and both her parents are Polish.

Eaglewhite

Aug 9, 09, 04:49 #102

Hi all

I wrote in the section "Are there any tartars in here / poland"

That I had a Y DNA result placing me in the Q Halogroup of the Y from my late Polish father.

The only way that got into me according to the latest thinking is through the Tartar invasions of southern Poland and the ransacking of Krakow and the surrounding area.

My late father and his family come from about 25 miles or so south west of Krakow

So a Polish female ancestor some how meet a Tartar male during the 13th century

Eaglewhite	Aug 9, 09, 04:51 #103
i meant the section "ANY POLISH TARTARS HERE?

Bondo

Nov 3, 09, 08:22 #104

I'm a basic looking nordic caucasian. My maternal grandfather was full Polish. His parents were from Poland. His mother had a fairly distinctive east asian look, though also caucasian too. My uncle, son of the grandfather, has a somewhat distinctive east asiatic look, particularly noticeable when he was a child. The maternal grandmother was basic western nordic European caucasian.
My mom and Uncle look substantially different, my mom doesn't have any of the asiatic features. My grandfather has subtler east asiatic features than my uncle, even though he is the genetic father of my uncle, and also of my mother. Same genetic parents for both my mom and uncle.
When the national geographic was giving DNA testing for people, my grandfather had his DNA tested, and the distinctive east asiatic markers were found, as we expected.

Polishfriend

Jul 16, 10, 13:47 #105

During the Mongol invasions of 1200, much rape took place and many of the Polish population was killed. The Mongols suddenly withdrew, due to death of their Khan in Mongolia. History has it that over 300,000 + mixed mongol/european polish childern were born. There was much debate at the time about what to do with them (due to the trauma involving their birth). The Polish Church begged the population to accept them, because they were sinless children and the population had been decimated due to the invasions. This was done.
Not very surprisingly, the children grew up to be expert horsemen (due to their Mongolian heritage) and soldiers. The later generations formed the famous Polish Cavalry, which helped defeat the Ottoman Turks at Vienna in the 1400s. The Cavalry wore strange helmets the made an eriee shreiking noise, when they charged and struck terror into the Turks. Poles are known as 'Gallant Poles', due to their bravery and elan in battle.
Polish people are a very good looking people, some with high cheekbones and almond shaped eyes, due to the mixed ancestry. In my humble opinion, Poland has among the most beautiful women in the world.

♂

Edited by: hague1cmaeron Jul 16, 10, 14:11 #106

Polishfriend:

History has it that over 300,000 + mixed mongol/european polish childern were born. There was much debate at the time about what to do with them (due to the trauma involving their birth). The Polish Church begged the population to accept them, because they were sinless children and the population had been decimated due to the invasions. This was

it seems improbable considering that the invading army was I am led to believe only 30 000 strong, and a woman only has a 30% chance of falling pregnant after intercourse, and considering that not every single soldier was out to rape.

could you provide more information? Especially about the second part with the church.

IronsideThreads: 56 Posts: 6,196 Joined: Feb 26, 09 ♂	Jul 16, 10, 22:39 #107
Polishfriend: During t its some fairy tales

Jenny_IrishgreeThreads: - Posts: 4 Joined: Jul 17, 10 ♀	Jul 17, 10, 03:48 #108
Yes, they have (when you know where is mongoly and Poland...) and i'm sure, us, Irish have it too, we're all linked i saw a lot of polish people with mongolian characteristics.

PennBoyThreads: 148 Posts: 3,274 Joined: Dec 7, 08 ♂	Nov 17, 10, 21:26 #109
Polishfriend: History has it that over 300,000 + mixed mongol/european polish childern were born. Where do you get this from?

vetalaThreads: - Posts: 512 Joined: Jul 10, 09 ♀	Nov 17, 10, 21:44 #110
Polishfriend: History has it that over 300,000 + mixed mongol/european polish childern were born. But Poland's total population at that time was a little over a million. If 1/3 of the population were half-mongol, we'd all be VERY visibly mixed-race today.

♂

Nov 27, 10, 01:59 #111

chauduyphanvu:

I wouldn't say that some Poles might have Mongolian ancestry but I would say that some Poles might have Mongolian physical characteristics due to the invasions led by Genghis Khan and his sons into Eastern Europe and Poland - and no one would ever know if the soldiers married some of the original Poles and have children.

Exactly, spot-on champ !
I do not know why are all these people, supposedly anti-nazi, using nazi methods of thinking when it comes to a group of people.
Poles do not worship blood purity, they do not measure noses, nor do they euthanise subjects who would not fit 'mould'.

When will people get this thru to their clouded minds - even Polish nationalists will go as far as accepting Jewish Poles as POLES full-stop.

BaydlagThreads: - Posts: 2 Joined: May 7, 11 ♂	May 9, 11, 04:26 #112
Modern tatars should have little Mongolian gen. Their main ancestors were Volga Bulgars and Kipchaks.

Piast PolandThreads: 2 Posts: 256 Joined: Aug 28, 10 ♂	May 9, 11, 14:52 #113
Lodz_The_Boat: I can say from 10 hands away who is from the NorthEast of Poland! lol! I dont think so, Nearly my whole family is from that area, including Belarus/Lithuania region and none of us look like that. Neither does anyone that I recall.

PolskiMocThreads: 7 Posts: 488 Joined: Mar 15, 10 ♂	May 31, 11, 02:21 #114
No Poles do not have C or O haplogroups like Mongolians or Tatars. Neither do Ukrainians or Russians. However 9 percent of Mongolians are R1a. Likely from Mongolians capturing Slavs & Or Central Asians. Or Ancient Indo-Europeans like Western Chinese Tocharians mixing with Mongolians who came from near Ukraine, Polish, Russia area.

GrzegorzK	May 31, 11, 06:14 #115
Its possible that some modern Polish people have some mongol inside them, it's also possible that the lochness monster exists. I'd say there is a less than 50% chance that Poles have some mongol in them. Even during mongol empire they would have retreated south and west preventing any mixing