Are there other ways of finding records that exist further back than 1826?

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Feb 15, 10, 02:47 #1

I have come to a major roadblock or an end depending on one's interpretation. The earliest record I can find regarding my family is in 1826 wedding record that lists parent information. I have no way of looking further back. The records just don't exist. Is this it? Am I finally done or are there other ways of finding records that exist further back than archives in Poland. I want in my heart to go further but am truly perplexed as to find anything else. My family came from Podbielko Poland a small village. I have checked all religios record from Stary Luboten which was the proper Catholic parish of that time. Is this really it? I have even tried neighboring parishes but thier records do not go any further back. My heart feels empty. I want to go further but I think this is the end. Thank you all for your enthusiasm and I hope all of your searches don't end as abruptly as mine. Good luck all.

f stopThreads: 33 Posts: 2,861 Joined: Dec 9, 09 ♀	Feb 15, 10, 03:31 #2
markskibniewski: My heart feels empty 1826? That is pretty good, as far as that goes. But "my heart feels empty"?? I understand you're trying to elicit sympathy here, but that's a bit over the top. Good luck, though.

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Feb 16, 10, 21:12 #3

Sympathy no. Perhaps understanding from those who feel the same as I do when they are faced with the possible end of a journey. Certainly not feeble comments from a weak fool wishing to kick someone when they are down. Or perhaps maybe some honesty. I have looked for a long time and hoped I would be able to go back further. I understand I am lucky to have gone back as far as I have but I do not wish to give up. I still appreciate the luck though as I will need it.

TheOtherThreads: 5 Posts: 1,584 Joined: Jul 13, 09 ♂	Feb 16, 10, 21:19 #4
1826 isn't very far back for catholic records. Did you try the state archives already? Maybe the church books are there. Also, don't rely on church records only. There are land records for example, and many other sources you can tap into.

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Feb 16, 10, 22:03 #5

All records I have found to date are from the Pultusk archives in the Stary Luboten area which was the proper Catholic parish. What bothers me is there is a large gap in the records from 1808 to 1826. Which suggests to me that they moved from a different area to that region. Unfortunately for me I have no idea from. I tried to check other parish records for neighboring areas but they don't exist for that time period, records checked in archives

STARY LUBOTYŃ Roman-Catholic parish records:
B: 1808-1862, 1864-1869, 1890-1898
M: 1808-1862, 1864-1869, 1884-1900
D: 1809-1862, 1864-1869, 1882-1897

as well as grodzkie books for the Ostrow MAzowiecka area (only 2 survived)

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Edited by: TheOther Feb 16, 10, 22:27 #6

Did you see that the LDS has a whole bunch of microfilms, too?
http://www.familysearch.org/eng/library/fhlcatalog/supermainframeset.a sp?display=titlefilmnotes&columns=*%2C0%2C0&titleno=140079&disp=Kopie+ ksi%C4%99g+metrykalnych++

Mikrofilm oryginała w Archiwum Diecezjalne, Warszawa.
Poland, Warszawa, Lubotyń Stary (Ostrów Mazowiecka) - Church records:

Akta urodzeń 1808-1825 FHL INTL Film 995596
Akta małżeństw 1808-1813, 1815-1825 FHL INTL Film 995597
Akta zgonów 1809-1825 FHL INTL Film 995598
Akta urodzeń, małżeństw, zgonów 1826-1835 FHL INTL Film 995599
Akta urodzeń, małżeństw, zgonów 1836-1849 FHL INTL Film 995600
Akta urodzeń, małżeństw, zgonów 1850-1859 FHL INTL Film 995601
Akta urodzeń, małżeństw, zgonów 1860-1862, 1864-1869 FHL INTL Film 995602

If the records you are looking for are not on those films, then I would guess that the church books are sitting in a Russian archive and not in a Polish one. The region came to the Russian Empire in 1795, right?

TrevekThreads: 33 Posts: 2,155 Joined: May 21, 08 ♂	Feb 16, 10, 22:39 #7
Have you tried the Mormon archive? Sometimes they have stuff which isn't available in the country.

TheOtherThreads: 5 Posts: 1,584 Joined: Jul 13, 09 ♂	Feb 16, 10, 22:40 #8
Trevek, see my post above.

markskibniewskiThreads: 4 Posts: 357 Joined: May 31, 09 ♂	Edited by: markskibniewski Feb 16, 10, 22:50 #9
The records exist they just don't contain any information about my family prior to 1826. My family seemed to avg 7-9 siblings per generation and seems weird that there is no records for births for close to 20 years. The records listed are LDS records ordered throught the archive. Thank you very much for list. Is it possible to gain access to the Russian archives?

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Edited by: TheOther Feb 16, 10, 23:05 #10

Looks as if your ancestors moved to that village from another place, as you suspected already. Try to find census records for that area after 1826 instead, maybe land deeds or other court records. They often contain valuable information about a person like name and place of birth.

markskibniewski:

Is it possible to gain access to the Russian archives?

AFAIK it is possible, but it can be very difficult.

TrevekThreads: 33 Posts: 2,155 Joined: May 21, 08 ♂	Feb 16, 10, 23:46 #11
TheOther: Trevek, see my post above. Ah, sorry. On another point, I have found trouble with more recent archives where some books exist but others don't. part of the problem might stem from destruction of books due to war etc. Was anything happening in that region during the 'missing years'?

TheOtherThreads: 5 Posts: 1,584 Joined: Jul 13, 09 ♂	Feb 17, 10, 00:03 #12
Trevek: part of the problem might stem from destruction of books due to war Destruction during WW2, widespread looting by the Soviet army, clerics being too lazy to keep records in earlier times, burnt down churches ... there are many reasons why records are missing in the area that is now Poland.

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Feb 17, 10, 10:40 #13

TheOther:

Destruction during WW2, widespread looting by the Soviet army, clerics being too lazy to keep records in earlier times, burnt down churches ... there are many reasons why records are missing in the area that is now Poland.

I was thinking that there might also have been events during the years which are missing from the records, but yeah, a couple of world wars and a few other things rpobably don't help for good record libraries.

SoftsongThreads: 6 Posts: 588 Joined: Sep 2, 07 ♀	Feb 17, 10, 11:54 #14
Maybe you could look for the death record of the furthest back family you have found. That sometimes lists the place from which they came. Good luck!

markskibniewskiThreads: 4 Posts: 357 Joined: May 31, 09 ♂	Edited by: markskibniewski Feb 17, 10, 14:23 #15
Softsong Thank you for the suggestion. I have looked at all death records from D: 1809-1862, 1864-1869, 1882-1897. the earliest death record I have is Florian Skibniewski died Dec 31. 1841. It does say they were living in Podbielko at the time.

TheOtherThreads: 5 Posts: 1,584 Joined: Jul 13, 09 ♂	Feb 17, 10, 18:15 #16
Here are some links regarding the Russian census: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Empire_Census http://demoscope.ru/weekly/ssp/rus_lan_97.php

TheOtherThreads: 5 Posts: 1,584 Joined: Jul 13, 09 ♂	Feb 17, 10, 18:31 #17
Forgot to say: you are out of luck. No census available before 1897.

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Feb 17, 10, 21:12 #18

Yeah I figured that. Just don't understand how the records were destroyed. I understand that buildings were destroyed during wartime but according to what I have read. The records were copied every year and sent to the vatican. I don't understand how centuries of records were lost...unless the vatican is holding out on the world. (God forbid) Oh well. I may have to start on my mothers side of the family (100 percent Irish).

HarryThreads: 62 Posts: 8,508 Joined: May 2, 07 ♂ [Suspended]	Feb 17, 10, 21:18 #19
markskibniewski: I may have to start on my mothers side of the family (100 percent Irish). Either that or just get a life.

markskibniewskiThreads: 4 Posts: 357 Joined: May 31, 09 ♂	Feb 17, 10, 21:54 #20
Have one thank you very much and doing well. Have 4 beautiful healthy children and do not need the advice of some moron looking to belittle someone looking into thier family history.

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Feb 17, 10, 22:24 #21

markskibniewski:

Yeah I figured that. Just don't understand how the records were destroyed. I understand that buildings were destroyed during wartime but according to what I have read. The records were copied every year and sent to the vatican. I don't understand how centuries of records were lost...unless the vatican is holding out on the world. (God forbid) Oh well. I may have to start on my mothers side of the family (100 percent Irish).

I wonder just how many of them actually got to the Vatican. Thing is that sometimes the records got destroyed in transit or were just lost. I have been looking for records from late 19th/ early 20th C and in some places I can only find marriage books but no birth books, or death books but nothing else. Some churches had 3 different books, whilst others just have one (the local parish residency book). Some books are in Germany. others... who knows?

One story I heard from the Nuns was that when the Russains were approaching in 1945 there was a big bonfire of records to stop the Sovs getting hold of them.

As an earlier poster suggested, there are other ways. have you tried the local civic archives? Sometimes there are things like land records, legal documents etc which might give a clue.

I think you may find similar problems with ireland. If you're abroad, start checking the shipping records.

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Feb 18, 10, 20:10 #22

I will try the land records and see if that helps. grodzkie books have some land records in them sales and wills and the like but there wasn't much in there to help me. Hopefully I will have more luck with the land records.

I figured some records were destroyed in transit. Looters ,bandits, etc. but every year for centuries. Of course that is assuming the priests did there job correctly.

Thanks for the suggestions all. :)

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Feb 21, 10, 23:54 #23

markskibniewski:

All records I have found to date are from the Pultusk archives in the Stary Luboten area which was the proper Catholic parish. What bothers me is there is a large gap in the records from 1808 to 1826. Which suggests to me that they moved from a different area to that region. Unfortunately for me I have no idea from. I tried to check other parish records for neighboring areas but they don't exist for that time period, records checked in archives

STARY LUBOTYŃ Roman-Catholic parish records:
B: 1808-1862, 1864-1869, 1890-1898
M: 1808-1862, 1864-1869, 1884-1900
D: 1809-1862, 1864-1869, 1882-1897

Have you tried with Archwium Główne Akt Dawnych (General Archives of Old Records)?:
http://www.agad.archiwa.gov.pl/

There are some information about parish files form different bishoprics secured in AGAD: http://www.agad.archiwa.gov.pl/metodyka/akta_parafii.pdf

And by the way your family name is good noble name, have you tried with any heraldry book?

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