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Are Poles aware of Thracian aspect in original roots of Polish ethos?


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Edited by: Crow  May 10, 10, 20:31    #61
Seanus:
Most Poles aren't into ethnicity, Crow.

all of us has ancestors. To most people ancestors are important, this way or another

Seanus:
Serbians no doubt grew tired of this but the Serbs have problems of their own now, http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8671783.stm

what you expected. NATO bombarded Kosovo and whole Serbia, killing many people no matter ethnic background. Not to mention all chaos on terain caused by NATO attack

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 May 10, 10, 20:36    #62
I meant ethnicity on a broader scale. They are Europe's equivalent of Japan, very self-obsessed people when it comes to introspective looks at themselves. Just like Japanese don't identify with their Asian ethnic kin, Poles prefer to look away most of the time and focus on their own.

If Poland was an island like Britain, it would never abandon the policy of splendid isolation ;) ;)
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Edited by: Crow  May 15, 10, 23:10    #63
in our search for deepest Polish roots we inevitably coming to Balkan as Polish starting point. This goes for all the Sarmatians and we can say that their first steps on European soil, after Ice age was finished started from Balkan. That`s why there, on Balkan, Sarmatian name (by official linguistic science) was preserved in form of Serbian ethnic name. But, if we follow Danube river, we actually follow steps of first Sarmatians. That`s why on the line Balkan-Baltic, along the Danube river we always founding new traces of Serbian name as designation for ethoses (Lusatian and Balkan Serbs), as form of culture (Polish Sarmatism).

Obviously, Sarmatian name represent once universal Proto-Slavic ethic name. Bearers of Serbian/Sorbian name just preserved in use that old original, same way as Poles preserved memory on Sarmatism.

So, all Slavs, including Poles, are autohtonous (native) people on their own land, not some unknown newcomers invaders as Germanic scholars suggests in their science with pollitical background. But, not only that, Proto-Slavs were first Europeans, maybe even ancestral race of all Europeans.

The Mystery of The Thracians



Crow:
Thomas A. Emmert. Serbian Golgotha, Kosovo, 1389, New York, 1990. [selections, translated texts relating to the "Kosovo Legend."]
http://coursesa.matrix.msu.edu/~fisher/bosnia/readings/Emmert1.html

pp. 93-95: From the second half of the fifteenth century, Ducas, in his History of the Byzantines, shows a warm emphathy for the Serbs:

In that same year Orkhan, the ruler of the Turks, died bequeathing his dominion to his son Murad who, having become the master of the Thracian cities, besieged Adrianople and took possession of all of Thessaly with the exception of Thessaloniki. Since he now held practically all the lands of the Romans, he advanced to the Triballi [Serbs].

here, we mentioned Thracians/Tribally designated as Serbs, in old Byzantine chronicles

Thracians according Herodotus:

Thracians

Spot this:

Triballi

The Triballi were an ancient Thracian tribe whose dominion was around the plains of south Serbia and west Bulgaria, at the Angrus and Brongus (the South and West Morava) and the Iskur River, roughly centered where Serbia and Bulgaria are joined.

This Thracian tribe has etymologically been connected with the Serbs, as many medieval Byzantine historians referred to the Serbs as the Triballians (Serbian name for Triballians is "Srblji, Thracians is ra¹ani - the first Serbian state was Rascia, present-day Serbia). Trebinje, a present city of Herzegovina and historical Serbian principality (Travunija, Triballia) has also been connected with this tribe. The Triballi had received influences from Celts, Scythians and Illyrians.

Triballi
Triballi -main Thracian tribe

Now, to connect name of Sarmatia and Thracia >>>

Raci

Raci (Раци, Hungarian: Rįc, (pl.) Rįcok, German: Ratzen, Raize, (pl.) Raizen, Ratzians, Rasciani, Rascians) was a name used to designate Serbs, or sometimes, in a wider perspective, all South Slavs, in the Middle Ages and the early modern times. The name was primary used by Hungarians and Germans and it derived from the name of medieval Serbian principality – Ra¹ka (Rascia). The southern parts of the Pannonian Plain were also named Ra¹ka (Rascia in Latin, Rįczsįg or Rįczorszįg in Hungarian and Ratzenland or Rezenland in German).

SRBI / SRBLJI / RASHANI (original forms) = SARMATI / TRIBALLI/ THRACIANS / TRACI (forms written and pronounced by foreigners, Greek and Latin authors)

If someone, for example, asked ancient (all to the middle age) Serbs who are LEDJANI, only answer would be ``its our own people that once in deep past went to the north, on frozen lands``. Yes, LEDJANI is Serbian form of LECH, oldest Polish ethnic designation and means `people from the ice`.

So Poles, Serbs would tell you that Poles originate from Balkan, that early Polish ancestors along the Danube river slowly (after Ice age was finished, some 12.000 years ago- in that time already Slavic speaking!) dispersed from Balkan to what is today`s Poland and further. In that part of Europe, on the north of Europe, ancestors of Poles were first Whites, pioneers that conquered nature of Europe, not other Europeans.

There are also other branches of Proto-Slavs that bypassed Anatolia and Balkan on their historical path and arrived in Europe via Caucasus/Eurasia (i don`t speak of Russians here, considering that genetic science confirmed that Russian genetic stock came from Poland). That other branch later mixed with the Danubian branch, contributing to all today existing Slavs. Anyway, its just ancient story of inter-Slavic migrations. But Balkan is the main source, ancestral place for bulk of our population. And, that ancient Proto-Slavic Balkan-Baltic Danubian line gave roots to the Western civilization.
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 May 15, 10, 23:18    #64
Crow:
we inevitably coming to Balkan as Polish starting point.


I don't think that Poles came from Balkan.Actually I find it impossible.In my opinion they most probably came from the area which is now central Ukraine and mixed with germanic tribes which were living easter of Oder.
The reason we know about Thracians,Illyrians etc and not about folks easter of Oder or near dnipr is that the former were living closer to Greeks and so they were refered in history books which were written by Greeks.Actually there is no especially favourable reference to Thracians except their blonde hair and tall body stature.
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Edited by: Crow  May 15, 10, 23:44    #65
king polkakamon:
I don't think that Poles came from Balkan.Actually I find it impossible.In my opinion they most probably came from the area which is now central Ukraine

impossible. When Ice age finished on Balkan and people started to migrate along the Danube River, Ukraine territory was still for long under the ice.

Also, have in mind that Serbs have name LEDJANI (Lech) for Poles. LEDJANI in Serbian coming from word LED (ice).

Then, if Swedes originate from Thracians, meaning Sarmatians, Poles for sure originate from the same source. After all, Poles remembered their Sarmatian roots much batter then Swedes.

Thracians: Ancestors of the Swedes

SWEDISH WEB SITE
http://www.osterholm.info/thracian.html

The origins of the Thracians, and thus the Swedes, can be traced back to secular and biblical history. Chapters 9 and 10 of Genesis describe how the nations developed from Noah's three sons, Shem, Ham, and Japheth. Recorded history continually verifies the biblical account of the spread of nations.

Swedes

After the Greek victory over the Persians (449 BC), the Persian king Xerxes (486-465 BC) established for himself a large army among whose soldiers Herodotus mentions Thracians from northwest Asia Minor, who are described as follows:

"The Thracians joined the expedition wearing fox caps, wearing long coats under their vivid colored capes. Their calf-high footwear was made of deerskin. They were equipped with spears, light shields and small daggers."

What is biggest European ethos? Slavs of course, they always were.

From above link >>>
Josephus (1st century AD Jewish & Roman historian) identifies them as the tribes who were known to the Romans as Thirasians, and to the Greeks as Thracians, whom they feared as marauding pirates. Dio Cassius, Roman historian in the 2nd century AD, wrote "let us not forget that a Trajan was a true-born Thracian."

Tiras himself was worshipped by his descendants as Thuras (Thor), the god of war. The river Athyras was also named after him, and the ancient city of Troas (Troi, Troy - the Trajans or Trojans) perpetuates his name, as also does the Taunrus mountain range. Thracian lands stretched from southwestern Europe to Asia Minor, a vast area historically known as Thracia. The historical Thracian genealogical tree counts over 200 tribes which had several names, according to their specific regions. Some of their tribal names were Trajans, Etruscans, Dacians, Luwians, Ramantes, Pelasgians, Besins, Odrisi, Serdoi, Maidoi and Dentheletoi. The Trajans (Trojans) founded the city of Troy which existed approximately 2400 years (about 1900 BC to 500 AD), which was destroyed and rebuilt several times. Thousands of Trojan warriors left the city of Troy during the 11th century BC. They came north and captured land along the banks of the river Don (southwestern Russia), a major trade route. The locals named the Trojan conquerors the "Aes," meaning "Iron People," for their superior weaponry. The tribes of Trojan Aes would eventually move north, settling in present-day Scandinavia. The Aes or Aesar (plural), subsequently became known as the Svear, and then Swedes.

king polkakamon:
and mixed with germanic tribes which were living easter of Oder.

also impossible. In that time there was no any `Germanic` tribes/ethos. Its myth of German historical school. Just later in history existed Roman province of Germania and was populated with Slavs. When those Slavs from Roman province of Germania were Romanized and then Germanized, German ethos was born and named by the name of province- Germania.
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Edited by: Crow  May 16, 10, 23:19    #66
amazing, amazing... all this is about Thracians. once when we established correlation between Thracians and Sarmatians we are fascinate with proportions of untold history of Slavs, particularly of Poles (considering that we are on Polish forum).

Tharcains (Sarmatians) in the deepest past were stretched from Anatolia via Balkan to the Baltic. Then, more later from west of Europe to the Ind river. Great, amazing, fascinating, successful people and civilization. And those Thracians were nothing but our Proto-Slavic ancestors. Thracians, Sarmatians, Scythians, Hittites, Cimerians, Celts, Gauls, Iliryans, Dardanians, Dacians, Spartans, Trojans... all those ethic designations were/are actually part of impossible deep and rich, fascinating and beautiful Slavic past.

The Conquest of Anatolia by the Carpatho-Danubians

http://www.dacia.org/history/anatol_e.html

Anatolia had been - for several centuries - subject to a Balkan tribal federation - the Phrygians, whose king Midas became legendary for the opulence of Gordion, the capital." One should not forget that only a few km east of Anatolia, another empire - the Urartu Kingdom - flourished, only to disappear into the black hole of history.

Between the Greek colonies on the shores of the Thracian Sea and the Phrygians, another Thracian kingdom was soon founded - the Lydians'. In roughly the 6th century BC, Anatolia was once more invaded, this time by the Cimmerians (themselves of Thracian origin). The ensuing fratricidal war caused serious losses to both the Phrygians and the Lydians. The Cimmerian people extended its sovereignty over the center of Anatolia and as far as the Thracian Sea and over several of the Greek colonies too.

In The Aryans (pg.176-177), V.Gordon Childe was indicating the map of the Carpatho-Danubian spreading, as far as the center of Anatolia and from there across Mesopotamia to Persia. Iosif Constantin Dragan, in We, the Thracians (pg.158), made use of the same arguments (although his book was published 16 years before V.Gordon Childe's above-mentioned work), speaking about the Hittite tribes as the first among the Carpatho-Danubian ones to "leave the sacred space" and followed shortly by the Luwians. Apart from the Dardan (Trojan)-Ramantes who settled down on the Anatolian coasts along the Thracian Sea shore, the Carpatho-Danubian Hittite people headed for the heart of Mesopotamia, and founded an empire, whose boundaries were marked by the Getic Sea (the Black sea) and Palestine. The founder of this empire was Labarnas and was followed by his son, Hatusilas, who extended his empire and pushed its frontier even farther, after braving the native Hatti people.

The Carpatho-Danubian Hittite civilization developed simultaneously with the Simerian and Egyptian ones.

The migration of the Carpatho-Danubian Thracians to Anatolia, as far as Asia Minor, took place during the early years of the Bronze Age. This could explain why the bronze hatchets found in this area are very much alike, or why the pottery made along the Danube shares certain characteristics with that from Anatolia. The Thracian craftsmen left their mark upon these hatchets too (also known as "Thracian hatchets").


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 May 16, 10, 23:22    #67
Did you hear the latest, Crow? The Albanians said to the Macedonians that they were their long lost Ilyrian brothers. The Macedonians had big problems with them.
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Edited by: Crow  May 16, 10, 23:33    #68
Seanus:
Did you hear the latest, Crow? The Albanians said to the Macedonians that they were their long lost Ilyrian brothers. The Macedonians had big problems with them.

yes. Albanian attacks on Slavs in the region regularly starting on the field of history. They (Albanians) immediately getting support from the so called west, considering that they insist on theory that Slavs are newcomers to the region. Then, after Albanians consolidate their nationalism (getting support for their claims from so called west), they advance strengthened and Slavs are in defensive (morally inferior) position. With time, support on the field of history transfer to the political sphere and on the end it turning in open military support by so called west.

From long time ago Serbian intelligentsia concluded that so called west wants to see weak Slavic Balkan.
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 May 16, 10, 23:40    #69
Are Poles aware of Thracian aspect? I'd doubt it!
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 May 16, 10, 23:44    #70
Seanus:
I'd doubt it!

me, too.

Belgrade is still natural capital of Slavic world, no matter how hard i want to suggest Warsaw as capital. :)
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 May 16, 10, 23:45    #71
Not Kiev or Moscow? Are they aware of their roots?
Gast  May 16, 10, 23:49    #72
Crow:
Serbian intelligentsia


Do Serbs have intelligentsia? I sincerely doubt it.
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Edited by: Crow  May 16, 10, 23:52    #73
Seanus:
Not Kiev or Moscow? Are they aware of their roots?

Balkan is original homeland of Danubian people (core of Western world). After Ice age was finished, Poland and Ukraine were directly populated from Balkan. Russia was populated from Poland.

just local nationalism in Poland, Ukraine and Russia suggest otherwise, no matter that their own legends turning their heads toward Balkan and Serbs that still hold down there.

Sindidun or Singidunum (old name for Belgrade) is natural center, no matter is it or isn`t official political center. Not to mention strategic importance of Balkan, for Slavic world.

Gast:
Do Serbs have intelligentsia? I sincerely doubt it.

Serbs are intelligentsia
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Edited by: Crow  May 22, 10, 10:15    #74
Kraków

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krak%C3%B3w

Etymology

The name of Kraków is traditionally derived from Krakus (Krak, Grakch), the legendary founder of Kraków and a ruler of the tribe of Lechitians (Poles). In Polish, Kraków is an archaic possessive form of Krak and essentially means "Krak's (town)". Krakus's name may derive from "krakula", a Proto-Slavic word meaning a judge's staff, or a Proto-Slavic word "krak" meaning an oak, once a sacred tree most often associated with the concept of genealogy. The first mention of Prince Krakus (then written as Grakch) dates back to 1190, although the town existed as early as the 7th century, inhabited by the tribe of Wi¶lanie.

The city's full official name, used on ceremonial occasions, is Królewskie Sto³eczne Miasto Kraków, meaning "Royal Capital City of Kraków". In English, a person born, or living, in Kraków is a Cracovian (Polish: Krakowianin).

Cracow (disambiguation)

Poljaci! What if?!! >>>

Let us try to give another explanation for Kraków`s etymology >>>

RACOW (local domestic Polish designation for RASHAN/RAS- Serbian) / THRACOW (foreign designation, meaning Thracian) >> KRAKOW >> meaning town of RAS/RUJNI- in Eng. Red/Rose/Pink- refer to White people (in other words Sarmatians)
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 May 26, 10, 10:46    #75
proof that Proto-Slavs (Ras people / Sarmatians / Slavs) had monumental architecture in time BC >>>

Modern day Bulgaria represent just one small segment of vast Thracian lands in time BC but, we must say, land of what is today`s Bulgaria (also- Serbia, Macedonia, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Montenegro, Northern Greece, Northern Albania, Romania) in deep past was populated with the bulk of our Proto-Slavic (Danubian) ancestral population that in later milenias slowly dispersed and migrated along the Danube river to the North, East and West of Europe. Let us see what is discovered till now...

The Goldens WONDERS of the Bulgarian Archaeology - SVESTARY Thracian Tomb



Thracians - One Beautiful Mystery



"THE THRACIANS" - Documentary; TRAILAR ; director: Stiliyan Ivanov



New Thracian Treasure



Thracian tomb - Pomorie, Bulgaria




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