Why Polish aren't white??

freebirdThreads: 3 Posts: 638 Joined: Jun 8, 07 ♂	Apr 11, 09, 18:16 #61
Seanus: I see where HB is coming from well, I do too but only the very simple and uneducated people would come up ideas like Europeans are not white and there are quite a few Americans, also in the South HB, who exactly know who's who :-)

tornado2007Threads: 20 Posts: 3,497 Joined: Jul 11, 07 ♂	Apr 11, 09, 18:19 #62
The only reason the BNP is gathering support is due to the lack of time given by the British government to the subject of immigration. If Brown and the boys made a few adjustments to our weak immigration system i'm sure you would see support falling for the BNP

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂	Apr 11, 09, 18:20 #63
tornado2007: Well we know that the Germans should know for sure what white is :) Or should i say Austrians :) The Germans WERE picking and killing anything that wasn't white, that probably inlcuded wasps as well :):) Yeah...funny...

♂

Apr 11, 09, 18:33 #64

Randal:

A bird does not know where one country starts and another begins.

That's because birds are stupid.

Randal:

In our world race is as real as the imaginary human constructed political boundaries between nations.

Politics and nationality is not the same thing, you have multi-national states, nation-states, and multi-state nations, I guess those boundaries are as 'imaginary' as the 38th parallel because everyone knows that there is no such things as North Koreans and South Koreans, just Koreans.

Randal:

Race is always a complex issue because it is an ill-defined human construct and people confuse things like ethnicity and nationality and culture with race.

That sounds like something a communist would say.

♀

Edited by: HatefulBunch397 Apr 11, 09, 21:19 #65

tornado2007:

The Germans WERE picking and killing anything that wasn't white, that probably inlcuded wasps as well

If you mean anyone who wasn't the Aryan Ideal, that wasn't as much about whiteness as much as it was about an ideal person. Tall, athletic, fair skinned, blue eyed with blond hair. This person was supposedly genetically superior and was associated with noble character traits.
Adolf Hitler spoke of this ideal in his book Mein Kampf.

MarcinK:

That's because birds are stupid.

Birds are not stupid. You think animals that can do what they can are stupid? You ever try flying without a plane?

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂	Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Apr 11, 09, 21:34 #66
HatefulBunch397: Tall, athletic, fair skinned, blue eyed with blond hair. That is crap because the leader himself didn't look like that... He meant the germanic/nordic race where this look is just one variant! All this blond/blue eyed etc....is after war movie/book/propaganda hype!

HatefulBunch397Threads: - Posts: 1,018 Joined: Nov 5, 08 ♀	Apr 11, 09, 21:37 #67
Bratwurst Boy: That is crap because the leader himself didn't look like that... He meant the germanic/nordic race where this look is just one variant! That was in Mein Kampf, I do believe. I have a theory tho. I think he was trying to satisfy a German demographic so he praised those who fit that demographic in his book. He must have known what he was doing because it worked, for a while.

♂

Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Apr 11, 09, 21:43 #68

HatefulBunch397:

That was in Mein Kampf, I do believe

Really!
A link would be nice...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master_race

The master race (German: die Herrenrasse, De-herrenvolk.ogg das Herrenvolk (help·info)) was a concept in Nazi ideology, which holds that the Germanic (including the Nordic peoples) represent an ideal and "pure race".

Nevertheless, such theorists usually accepted that considerable variety of hair and eye colour existed even within the racial categories they recognised.
Contrary to a popular myth, the Nazis themselves did not discriminate against Germans who were not blonde or blue-eyed, or had only one of these features. Adolf Hitler and most Nazi officials had brown hair and were considered to be "Aryans".

Germanic peoples:

The Germanic peoples are a historical ethno-linguistic group, originating in Northern Europe and identified by their use of the Indo-European Germanic languages which diversified out of Common Germanic in the course of the Pre-Roman Iron Age.

The descendants of these peoples became the ethnic groups of North Western Europe: the Danes, Finland-Swedes, Swedes, Norwegians, Faroese and Icelanders in Scandinavia and some other countries (known as Scandinavians), the Germans, Dutch and Flemish on the continent, and the inhabitants of South-East Scotland, East England and South-East England in Great Britain...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanic_peoples

The "nordic" (blond, blue eyed) were always thought of as only one sub group of the germanic peoples...all the hype about it came later because of allied propaganda and later popular myth due american/british movies and fiction books!

Here are some sub groups:

Grzegorz_Threads: 81 Posts: 6,213 Joined: Nov 16, 06 ♂	Apr 11, 09, 22:02 #69
HatefulBunch397: It's generally Americans raised in the south of scottish and english descent who believe this. But they aren't white themselves. They are pink.

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂	Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Apr 11, 09, 22:03 #70
Just an example...one of the most prolific WWII generals, Adolf Galland. As a descendant of french hugenottes he was quite dark :) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Galland waits to get send into the random bin

♂

Apr 11, 09, 22:39 #71

Bratwurst Boy:

HatefulBunch397:
That was in Mein Kampf, I do believe

Really!
A link would be nice...

Of course it is, actually it's one of the main concepts of the book and not only a side note.
Here you go:
http://wiki.dickinson.edu/index.php?title=World_War_II_Eugenics

"Many of Hitler's eugenic ideas surfaced in his book Mein Kampf."

Bratwurst Boy:

The "nordic" (blond, blue eyed) were always thought of as only one sub group of the germanic peoples...all the hype about it came later because of allied propaganda and later popular myth due american/british movies and fiction books!

I guess this is anti German propaganda, too:

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂	Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Apr 11, 09, 22:58 #72
berni23: "Many of Hitler's eugenic ideas surfaced in his book Mein Kampf." And where did he speak explicitely of the blond/blue eyed people? Because THAT was actually the question... Looks quite brunette to me: Or this, one blonde - one brunette:

freebirdThreads: 3 Posts: 638 Joined: Jun 8, 07 ♂	Apr 11, 09, 23:01 #73
HatefulBunch397: You ever try flying without a plane? good1

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Apr 11, 09, 23:20 #74

freebird:

berni23:
"Many of Hitler's eugenic ideas surfaced in his book Mein Kampf."

And where did he speak explicitely of the blond/blue eyed people?
Because THAT was actually the question...

Have you even read the book???

The concept of an Aryan race(or Herrenrasse) is predominant in it and according to this the blond/blue eyed ideal is very much a part of it:

"By the 1880s a number of linguists and anthropologists argued that the "Aryans" themselves had originated somewhere in northern Europe. A specific region began to crystallize when the linguist Karl Penka (Die Herkunft der Arier. Neue Beiträge zur historischen Anthropologie der europäischen Völker, 1886) popularized the idea that the "Aryans" had emerged in Scandinavia, and could be identified by the distinctive Nordic characteristics of blond hair and blue eyes."

"This "Nordic race" theory gained traction following the publication of Charles Morris's The Aryan Race (1888), which argued that the "original Aryans" could be identified by their blond hair and other Nordic features, such as dolichocephaly (long skull)."

♂

Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Apr 11, 09, 23:23 #75

berni23:

The concept of an Aryan race(or Herrenrasse) is predominant in it and according to this the blond/blue eyed ideal is very much a part of it:

Maybe you need to learn to read first? Of course it is...that wasn't the question!

Read my posts: rolls eyes

Bratwurst Boy:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master_race

Bratwurst Boy:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanic_peoples

Bratwurst Boy:

Here are some sub groups:

Nevertheless, such theorists usually accepted that considerable variety of hair and eye colour existed even within the racial categories they recognised.
Contrary to a popular myth, the Nazis themselves did not discriminate against Germans who were not blonde or blue-eyed, or had only one of these features. Adolf Hitler and most Nazi officials had brown hair and were considered to be "Aryans".

♂

Apr 11, 09, 23:34 #76

Bratwurst Boy:

Nevertheless, such theorists usually accepted that considerable variety of hair and eye colour existed even within the racial categories they recognised.
Contrary to a popular myth, the Nazis themselves did not discriminate against Germans who were not blonde or blue-eyed, or had only one of these features. Adolf Hitler and most Nazi officials had brown hair and were considered to be "Aryans".

Who's disclaiming that?

The only person claiming the Nordic look of Aryans is a myth created by the evil allies are you and i have already provided you with your beloved lnks/quotes that disprove that.

♂

Edited by: Moderator Apr 11, 09, 23:40 #77

berni23:

The only person claiming the Nordic look of Aryans is a myth created by the evil allies are you and i have already provided you with your beloved lnks/quotes that disprove that.

Are you lying purposely or are you that stupid?

HatefulBunch397:

If you mean anyone who wasn't the Aryan Ideal, that wasn't as much about whiteness as much as it was about an ideal person. Tall, athletic, fair skinned, blue eyed with blond hair....

Bratwurst Boy:

That is crap because the leader himself didn't look like that...
He meant the germanic/nordic race where this look is just one variant!

And yes that people like you and HB harp on all the time as if there is ONLY ONE group of Germans/Aryans shows how successful the propaganda was because it was hardly heard as much during the Nazi time!

I remember someone (Ami or Brit) asking how stupid Hitler must have been propagating the blond/blue eyed look as he as the leader even didn't look like that (and many of the higher echelons too)...

*groans*

Remember after war movies? Isn't the foe to often a blond with a black uniform to look like a "real German"??? There you have your reason!

Battle of the Bulge

♂

Apr 11, 09, 23:45 #78

Again:

"By the 1880s a number of linguists and anthropologists argued that the "Aryans" themselves had originated somewhere in northern Europe. A specific region began to crystallize when the linguist Karl Penka (Die Herkunft der Arier. Neue Beiträge zur historischen Anthropologie der europäischen Völker, 1886) popularized the idea that the "Aryans" had emerged in Scandinavia, and could be identified by the distinctive Nordic characteristics of blond hair and blue eyes."

"This "Nordic race" theory gained traction following the publication of Charles Morris's The Aryan Race (1888), which argued that the "original Aryans" could be identified by their blond hair and other Nordic features, such as dolichocephaly (long skull)."

Good bye and goodnight my learning-disabled friend.

southernThreads: 116 Posts: 10,959 Joined: May 17, 07 ♂	Edited by: southern Apr 13, 09, 00:15 #79
Bratwurst Boy: Here are some sub groups: I agree with the theory that these subgroups exist.The first one lives for example in Hamburg,the second in Frankfurt and the third in Bayern. Using strict anthropologic criteria for admission into SS,dozens of thousands of Russians were discovered to be fit,that is why SS abandoned the effort to integrate aryan looking Slavs.

niejestemcapitaThreads: 3 Posts: 666 Joined: Jan 3, 09 ♀	Apr 13, 09, 00:24 #80
Bratwurst Boy: All this blond/blue eyed etc....is after war movie/book/propaganda hype! what nonsense bratty boy....was it propaganda when German ppl "of a certain age" were practically dribbling with joy over my yellow haired blue eyed kids? "ahhhh! super haar!" (and no this just didnt happen only once)

HatefulBunch397Threads: - Posts: 1,018 Joined: Nov 5, 08 ♀	Edited by: HatefulBunch397 Apr 13, 09, 00:25 #81
Bratwurst Boy: A link would be nice... I was going to give you a link, BB, but since I am so nice and Mein Kampf is against the law in Germany, I did the polite thing and spared you! BTW those photos you posted are creepy, lol. That style is weird.

panienkaThreads: 2 Posts: 215 Joined: Mar 4, 08 ♀	Edited by: panienka Apr 14, 09, 13:50 #82
PennBoy: many idiots in America think and many idiots don't even think

Guest	Apr 16, 09, 04:45 #83
HatefulBunch397: not consider Italians to be "White they're white but in america you can tell if sombody is italian by their overly unnartlurly taned body & spikey hair!

♂

Apr 16, 09, 05:11 #84

Oh this is silly.
Of course Americans know you are white. However we Americans are SO programmed to pretend we do not see color so as to seek any label but the obvious one, for fear of offending, or being labeled a "racist".
A white man is not a white man...to speak of such is equated unfortunately to certain racist groups portrayed on the media...likewise many shy away from calling a black man black, for fear of causing offense.
IMHO it is ridiculous. Black people know they are black, white people know they are white, yet we play these silly hyphenation games. I'm not black...I'm African-American. I'm not "white", I'm Caucasian using other labels is even considered by some to be "insensitive". Hence referring to people by national origin, rather than, heaven forbid, the race that anyone can see.
Political correctness run amok,
and I wouldn't be surprised if Americans on all sides of the issue were tired of it.
Yet, it is how things are.

John P.

HatefulBunch397Threads: - Posts: 1,018 Joined: Nov 5, 08 ♀	Apr 16, 09, 05:15 #85
John P must not be from the American south.

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Apr 16, 09, 05:28 #86

Actually.....
I am.

Still, regardless where one is from it is frustrating.

I think we are far too thin skinned; we worry about offending people now, based on what may (or may not) have happened to their great, great grandfathers, now. It would be nice if for once the world could let 800 years ago or 200 years ago or 60 years ago remain in the past, and stop making current generations stand or fall on their own merit. I'm as much for learning from history's mistakes as the next guy, but I don't think we should hate Germans because of Hitler, white people (in the US) and especially Dutch, because of slavery here, or black people because of violence in the past...
Its just ridiculous. I think we'd get along a lot better if we stopped being sensitive over what one persons 800 year ago ancestor did to that of another...

I may be completely off the mark, of course.

John P.

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Apr 16, 09, 06:04 #87

Where I live in the US, people still say "white" and "black". Hardly anyone ever says "African American". I live in a mostly white suburb and people here tend to associate being white not only with skin color, but surname too. To them "white" means having a last name like "Smith" and having ancestors who fought with Ethan Allen or owned a plantation in Alabama. That's their definition of "white". Some of them don't think of Europeans as "white" just "foreign". It's really strange how backwards some are.
I know where Pennboy is coming from with this. It's true, to some extent.

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Apr 16, 09, 06:15 #88

HB, perhaps I've been in government/military service too long. If it is printed it is PC. We have to attend all sorts of training every quarter to make sure we stay in touch with our sensitive side and don't go around offending people...

Perhaps out in town people will refer to each other as white or black...but try saying someone did something because "he is white" or "she is black" and see how fast you end up talking to your boss or risking loss of employment.

Still, even foreigners...we know they're white (or black).

I often wondered, years ago when applying to colleges, whether a white immigrant from South Africa would be able to check the minority block for "African American" and if any were able to receive affirmative action benefits due to this.

Not that it had one bit to do with my own situation, but it was something for me to ponder.

John P.

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Apr 16, 09, 06:15 #89

HatefulBunch397:

Where I live in the US, people still say "white" and "black"

Because it's a fact of life HB. Using different names for the same thing it won't change anything, white is white, black is black and pink is pink. Obviously some people are trying to use the new fashion names like "African-American"etc. to avoid possible hostilities but to be honest to normal thinking people it shouldn't make any difference as long as one is not insulting another using degrading names like for example a "******" .

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Apr 16, 09, 06:25 #90

freebird,
I agree. Just wish the government saw it this way also.

I really do believe the PC movement is why a Pole or someone else is not identified as "white" first, for instance.

It's possible that hey, it's OBVIOUS you are white, but where are you FROM?

Met an Army MP in Iraq who adamantly claimed to be from "Cleveland, Ohio" but her accent told otherwise. Ended up she was originally from Ukraine. Pretty too, a buddy of mine even tried asking her out. Yes, she was white...but that was never the question.
I'm rambling. I guess I see your point as well HB.

John P.

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