Russian Poland-what general area would this be?

♀

Jan 11, 12, 23:50 #1

Hi - New here. I am researching my paternal grandparents and have a question. I found my paternal grandfather, who was born in Poland, in a US census from 1920 and he wrote that he is from "Russia Poland". Does anyone know what general area this would be? He came to New York sometime between 1911 and 1920.

Also, even better, I guess my dad went to Utah and looked up our ancestry as best he could and found that my paternal grandfather came from a town called either Kransnelwitz or Krasnosiek. It was hard to make out the handwriting. Does anyone know where that is because I can't find it so I"m thinking the name has changed.

Sorry for being so longwinded here but there's also a mystery I'm trying to solve. Apparently my great grandfather is the one that sent my grandfather and grand uncles to the USA but for some reason my father seems to think the German's would not allow my great grandfather to go with them. Does that even make sense for between 1911 and 1920, especially if they were in Russian controlled territory? I ask because I found someone with his name on wikipedia and it shows that he had different children born after 1918 and a totally different wife. o_0

Thanks for any and all help you can give me!!!

AlligatorThreads: - Posts: 350 Joined: Dec 15, 10 ♂	Jan 12, 12, 00:17 #2
It is possible that your great grandfather couldn't go to America because Germans didn't allow him to do that. Although he was from territories occupied by Russians, in order to go to America he had to go to German seaports. They were in polish territories occupied by Germany or in Germany (e.g. Hamburg).

IronsideThreads: 59 Posts: 6,783 Joined: Feb 26, 09 ♂	Jan 12, 12, 00:30 #3
bostonlass65: Does anyone know what general area this would be? He came to New York sometime between 1911 and 1920. Find map of Poland from 1939 and then map of Poland from 1764. Compare eastern border of these two. Area you looking for should be between eastern border of Poland from 1939 and eastern border of Poland from 1764. Good luck!

AlligatorThreads: - Posts: 350 Joined: Dec 15, 10 ♂	Jan 12, 12, 00:32 #4
As for the territory: it's huge. Russia took about 60% of I Rzeczpospolita Polska (Republic of Poland). These land consist of present: Ucraine, Belarus, Lithuania, Latvia and eastern district (powiat) of podlaskie province (województwo). So you would have to look for Krasnosiek? not only in present Poland.

delphiandomineThreads: 42 Posts: 9,954 Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ [Suspended]	Jan 12, 12, 14:07 #5
bostonlass65: I found my paternal grandfather, who was born in Poland, in a US census from 1920 and he wrote that he is from "Russia Poland". So he wasn't born in Poland, but rather Russia. As for area - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congress_Poland

hythornThreads: 6 Posts: 843 Joined: Feb 21, 08 ♂	Jan 12, 12, 14:32 #6
bostonlass65: he wrote that he is from "Russia Poland". @ Delph did she not say this already?

isthatu2Threads: 13 Posts: 5,225 Joined: Apr 3, 08 ♂	Jan 12, 12, 14:37 #7
hythorn: @ Delphdid she not say this already? Its like Tourettes for those two :( BTW OP between 1914 and 1918 there was this little thing called World War One, little spats like that can make travel a tad akward between beligerant nations ;)

♀

Edited by: bostonlass65 Jan 12, 12, 16:01 #8

I found a US draft document for my grandfather dated 1918 so I think he was here by then. I'm going to assume he was sent here before the war, the war maybe being the reason why he was sent away to the US. Kind of ironic that he was drafted into the very war he was sent to avoid but whatever.

Thanks to everyone for all of your help! I can't wait to research the area this weekend! I wish I could speak Polish since most of the websites I've found are in Polish.

♀

Jan 12, 12, 18:58 #9

I have another question if you don't mind. I haven't seen this document yet but my father said that my grandfather's immigration form, from when he first arrived in the US, has a "K" on it. That's a mystery to us because from what people have told me, that means that he was Jewish. That's all well and fine but my father grew up Catholic, thinking his father was Catholic as well. They had a very distant relationship - he hardly ever saw him and only remembers taking to him two to three times in his life since his dad died at an early age.

So does anyone know what that "K" stands for?

AlligatorThreads: - Posts: 350 Joined: Dec 15, 10 ♂	Jan 12, 12, 19:47 #10
I don't know what K stands for. Maybe you could find some information about your grandfather here: http://www.ellisisland.org/

JonnyMThreads: 16 Posts: 4,487 Joined: Mar 9, 11 ♂	Jan 12, 12, 20:05 #11
bostonlass65: Does that even make sense for between 1911 and 1920, especially if they were in Russian controlled territory? Yes, if it was during the First World War and he lived in one of the areas controlled by the German army.

♂

Jan 12, 12, 22:09 #12

bostonlass65:

Kind of ironic that he was drafted into the very war he was sent to avoid but whatever.

Many Polish people fled because they did not want to fight in the Russian army.
My grandfather did.

bostonlass65:

I have another question if you don't mind. I haven't seen this document yet but my father said that my grandfather's immigration form, from when he first arrived in the US, has a "K" on it. That's a mystery to us because from what people have told me, that means that he was Jewish. That's all well and fine but my father grew up Catholic, thinking his father was Catholic as well. They had a very distant relationship - he hardly ever saw him and only remembers taking to him two to three times in his life since his dad died at an early age.

So does anyone know what that "K" stands for?

Not sure what the K stands for can you give us any more information. Like where it was on the immigration form? Alot of practicing Jews changed over to the Catholic faith as well looking to avoid problems at port.

IronsideThreads: 59 Posts: 6,783 Joined: Feb 26, 09 ♂	Jan 12, 12, 22:29 #13
bostonlass65: That's a mystery to us because from what people have told me, that means that he was Jewish. What people ? What are you talking about ? Can you be precise if you want to learn something you need to provide data not what some mysterious peeps are saying ! K is the most important flat clustering algorithm.

♀

Jan 13, 12, 22:13 #14

Sorry. The people are friends that I have met that are into ancestry research. i shouldn't have even brought it up because it involves what today is a very derogatory word. Never mind. I haven't seen the document that it's on yet so I don't know what section it is in. Basically what was told to me is that illiterate immigrants who were Christian would place an "X" in the space in question but when jewish immigrants came through they would place an "O" which later would be changed to a "K" by the authorities.

Doesn't make sense if they were hiding their religion to come out with it as soon as they landed at Ellis Island. Anyways I won't ask anything else before having all of my ducks in a row. I was just curious since I grew up Roman Catholic all my life and none of this was ever mentioned to me before.

Polonius3Threads: 1,005 Posts: 4,833 Joined: Apr 11, 08 ♂	Jan 19, 12, 21:37 #15
For what it's worth, there are a numeber of localities in today's Ukraine called Krasnoselka and places in Russian known as Krasnoselsk. Duno if this will help?

archiwumThreads: 11 Posts: 30 Joined: Dec 1, 11 ♂	Jan 24, 12, 00:17 #16
Hello, Names & Places: PolishGen-PIAST, www.bagnowka.com, Bialystok.pl, Podlachia, Central/State Archive/USC Registry

archiwumThreads: 11 Posts: 30 Joined: Dec 1, 11 ♂	Jan 24, 12, 22:27 #17
Hello, Again Here is a site: www.amazon.com/polish-surnames-origins-meanings William F. Hoffman

Ralph	Feb 23, 12, 11:23 #18
delphiandomine: So he wasn't born in Poland, but rather Russia. If at the time of this birth his birthplace was in the Polish hands, he was born in Poland. It is possible that the place is in Russia now: a joint decision by Britain, the Soviet Union, and the U.S. has shifted Poland westwards by hundreds of miles right after the end of the WWII.

pawianThreads: 90 Posts: 5,395 Joined: May 30, 08 ♂	Edited by: pawian Feb 23, 12, 18:27 #19
bostonlass65: rom a town called either Kransnelwitz or Krasnosiek. Krasnosielsk is a county in today`s Belarussia. http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krasne_nad_Usz%C4%85

♂ [Suspended]

Edited by: Harry Feb 23, 12, 18:39 #20

Ralph:

If at the time of this birth his birthplace was in the Polish hands, he was born in Poland.

The OP said "in a US census from 1920 and he wrote that he is from "Russia Poland"." Given that in December 1920 nobody who had been born in Poland could have been more than two years and one month old and that babies who are two years and one month old can not write, the gentleman in question cannot have been born in Poland.

Ralph:

a joint decision by Britain, the Soviet Union, and the U.S. has shifted Poland westwards by hundreds of miles right after the end of the WWII.

Such a pity for this theory that the first leader to propose the current western border of Poland was actually the Polish prime minister in 1942.

Note to mods: as the post I quote from has been left in the thread, I have assumed that the topics which it addresses are sufficiently on-topic to be quoted from and replied to.

Ralph

Feb 24, 12, 15:55 #21

Harry:

in December 1920 nobody who had been born in Poland could have been more than two years and one month old and that babies who are two years and one month old can not write, the gentleman in question cannot have been born in Poland.

He was not born in an independet, sovereign Poland, granted, but was born on the Polish soil. No true Pole has ever considered the partitions as legitimate. There is (so far) no independent Scotland, for example, but the Scots come from Scotland, do they not?

Harry:

he wrote that he is from "Russia Poland

He wrote "Russia Poland" to indicate he was from the part of Poland that had been annexed by Russia.