Slavs are descendants of Sarmatians?

OgienThreads: 15 Posts: 420 Joined: Jul 22, 09 ♂	Feb 1, 11, 03:41 #1
I've noticed a few people on this site talk about Slavs being the descendants of the Sarmatians. I'm assuming this is not a very well accepted theory by most historians since I can't find much information on the Slavic-Sarmatian connection. So, to those of you who believe this theory, what evidence makes you so inclined to support it?

♂

Feb 1, 11, 04:15 #2

Ogien:

I've noticed a few people on this site talk about Slavs being the descendants of the Sarmatians.

Only Crow, but there is connection between Poles and Sarmatians!
Some historians thinks that - due to findings in ancient Slaves graves, elements of Sarmatains like items - there is connection between Slaves and Sarmatians, either:
- Sarmatians it is an old name of Slaves or some of the Slaves.
- Slaves are the result of mix between Balts and Sarmatian people.
- port of the Sarmatians conquered Slaves and then they had been assimilated by Slavic culture.

For Poles in the middle-ages a myth that Poles are descendants of the Sarmatians had been very important for building national identity.
There is similarity between some of the early Polish coats of arms and Sarmatians signs/tamagha.
Polish heraldry includes the extensive use of horseshoes, arrows, Maltese crosses, scythes, stars and crescents as well as many purely geometrical shapes for which a separate set of heraldic terms was invented. It has been suggested that originally all Polish coats of arms were based on such abstract geometrical shapes, but most were gradually "rationalized" into horseshoes, arrows and so on. It suggests in turn that Polish heraldry, also unlike Western European heraldry, may be at least partly derived from a kind of rune-like symbols: the Tamgas used by nomadic peoples of the Steppe, such as the Sarmatians or the Avars.
Enjoy!

OgienThreads: 15 Posts: 420 Joined: Jul 22, 09 ♂	Feb 8, 11, 06:50 #3
Ironside: Only Crow He never responds to me in other threads when I ask him about the Sarmatian connection. :-(

CrowThreads: 367 Posts: 7,316 Joined: Feb 14, 07 ♂ [Suspended]	Edited by: Crow Feb 8, 11, 07:34 #4
Ogien: He never responds to me in other threads when I ask him about the Sarmatian connection. :-( i apologize then. :) Just, more appropriate title for the thread would be that `Sarmatians were Slavs (Proto Slavs)`, same way as you can say that many other ancient designations for ethoses: Thracians, Dacians, Iliryans, Scythians,,... represent nothing but designations of Proto Slavs.

J2M172	Dec 9, 11, 20:45 #5
DNA will be the answer here. Sarmatians originated in territory of present Iran and most people in this region is J2 (M172). We should look at Slovenians, Pols and others... whether there is any link there. Maybe there was just a ruling class that could be identified as Sarmatians.

Sidliste_ChodovThreads: 2 Posts: 683 Joined: Jul 27, 11 ♂	Dec 9, 11, 20:48 #6
Ogien: I've noticed a few people on this site talk about Slavs being the descendants of the Sarmatians. Don't encourage him, ffs :p

CrowThreads: 367 Posts: 7,316 Joined: Feb 14, 07 ♂ [Suspended]	Dec 9, 11, 21:51 #7
Ogien: Slavs are descendants of Sarmatians? not descendants. Sarmatian story is Slavic story. Sarmats were and are Proto Slavs/Slavs

EM_WaveThreads: 20 Posts: 513 Joined: Nov 11, 11 ♂ [Suspended]	Dec 9, 11, 23:38 #8
Crow: not descendants. Sarmatian story is Slavic story. Sarmats were and are Proto Slavs/Slavs Except there is no DNA evidence proving it. Sarmatians were an Iranian tribe.

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Dec 10, 11, 00:13 #9

EM_Wave:

Except there is no DNA evidence proving it. Sarmatians were an Iranian tribe.

The Sarmats were indeed an Iranian tribe and their most direct descendants, the Ossets, still speak a Persian language, but there is ample DNA evidence proving that Poles and Iranians are indeed closely related and thus the Sarmatian story of Polish origins may very well be true: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_R1a_(Y-DNA)

EM_WaveThreads: 20 Posts: 513 Joined: Nov 11, 11 ♂ [Suspended]	Dec 10, 11, 00:20 #10
Des Essientes: but there is ample DNA evidence proving that Poles and Iranians You find Poles and Iranians closely related just because they share the R1a haplogroup?

blackadderThreads: 4 Posts: 403 Joined: Jun 28, 07 ♂	Dec 10, 11, 00:30 #11
EM_Wave: Except there is no DNA evidence proving it. Sarmatians were an Iranian tribe. As I recall Crow connected Sarmatians as Serbs which ruled in big part of Poland by the grace of God,and that King Arthur was in fact-a Serb. I suppose Sir Lancelot was horny Croat that ?))&%$# his wife.Merlin was Albanian witch-king. Don't ask him about Luke Skywalker please...

Des EssientesThreads: 11 Posts: 2,318 Joined: Feb 6, 10 ♂ [Suspended]	Dec 10, 11, 01:18 #12
blackadder: that King Arthur was in fact-a Serb. King Arthur was not a Serb but his legend is probably a variation of the Sarmatian/Ossetian legend of the Narts, brought into Britain by Sarmatian mercenaries employed by the Romans.

isthatu2Threads: 13 Posts: 5,225 Joined: Apr 3, 08 ♂	Dec 10, 11, 02:07 #13
blackadder: I suppose Sir Lancelot was horny Croat that ?))&%$# his wife.Merlin was Albanian witch-king.Don't ask him about Luke Skywalker please... Classic :)

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Dec 10, 11, 18:31 #14

blackadder:

As I recall Crow connected Sarmatians as Serbs

Crow will say anything. He even claimed that bridges were invented by Slavs but in reality nature invented bridges. There is no evidence that Slavs were sophisticated in building bridges, let alone inventing man-made bridges LOL!

I hate to say it, but the ancient Slavs were so behind other civilizations that we can't even find any writings about their pagan religion.

Grzegorz_Threads: 81 Posts: 6,213 Joined: Nov 16, 06 ♂	Dec 10, 11, 19:36 #15
There's definately some connection between Sarmatians and Slavs, probably some groups of Sarmatians merged with several other tribes and that's how Slavs emerged.

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Dec 10, 11, 19:49 #16

Grzegorz_:

There's definately some connection between Sarmatians and Slavs, probably some groups of Sarmatians merged with several other tribes and that's how Slavs emerged.

I doubt it. Since Sarmatians were Iranian, I would think that Slavs would have a higher frequency of haplogroup J2 but that's clearly not the case. Maybe there was some mixing with Sarmatians, but it couldn't have been too significant.

JonnyMThreads: 16 Posts: 4,487 Joined: Mar 9, 11 ♂	Dec 10, 11, 19:50 #17
DNA tests on Sarmatian remains suggests the romantic ideal of Sarmatism is precisely that. A romantic ideal.

pawianThreads: 90 Posts: 5,395 Joined: May 30, 08 ♂	Dec 10, 11, 20:51 #18
Ogien: I'm assuming this is not a very well accepted theory by most historians since I can't find much information on the Slavic-Sarmatian connection. So, to those of you who believe this theory, what evidence makes you so inclined to support it? I just feel it that my descent is from Sarmatians. I cannot explain it rationally. You have to be born Polish to know it.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Dec 10, 11, 20:53 #19
My question is, so what? What does it really matter?

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Dec 10, 11, 21:20 #20

EM_Wave:

I hate to say it, but the ancient Slavs were so behind other civilizations that we can't even find any writings about their pagan religion.

Do you really hate to say it, or are you really happy to say it because you are a British/South African who comes to this forum to hassle Slavs and indulge in your stupid fantasy about how superior Western Europeans are to them?
Ancient Slavs were actually far ahead of other civilizations politically, because they refused to be governed by kings or other despots and instead lived on mirs in which wealth was distributed equitably and everyone had their soveriegnty, unlike the craven ***** civilizations of Western Europe and Asia that bowed down to tyrants. When the proper human form of political existence, that of anarcho-syndicalism, is attained in the future it will be new for most of the world's cultures, but for Slavs it will just be a return to the superior lifestyle their ancestors enjoyed.
As for a lack of writing making the Slavs inferior, that is just ridiculous. Cultures whose stories are transmitted orally are in no way inferior to those with writing. In fact the memory of peoples without the crutch of script are far better, and that is why you see that the Slavs posting on this forum tend to be smarter than the others who come here.

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Dec 10, 11, 21:25 #21

pawian:

I just feel it that my descent is from Sarmatians. I cannot explain it rationally. You have to be born Polish to know it.

If you are not joking, I will hare some of pseudohallucinations :), better illusions, for example ' having the feeling of familiarity of the terrain my ancestors walked on for centuries', or something that links me to my animate nature 'having the felling how animals might feel when it comes to movement, senses, etc. in their habitats', and similar.

I indeed felt connection with some Slavs I met and I felt nice with them. I think that common ancestry, when the perspective is even wider can be a good thing.

You have to be born Serbian to feel like a dolphin or a cheetah ;););)

stop the earth i want to get off

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Dec 10, 11, 21:29 #22

isthatu2:

blackadder: I suppose Sir Lancelot was horny Croat that ?))&%$# his wife.Merlin was Albanian witch-king.Don't ask him about Luke Skywalker please...
Classic :)

bs. proven by posters.

this is what wiki has about it. why dont we ask crow about that. if i remember well he's expert on this topic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarmatians

Des Essientes:

Do you really hate to say it, or are you really happy to say it because you are a British/South African who comes to this forum to hassle Slavs and indulge in your stupid fantasy about how superior Western Europeans are to them?
Ancient Slavs were actually far ahead of other civilizations politically, because they refused to be governed by kings or other despots and instead lived on mirs in which wealth was distributed equitably and everyone had their soveriegnty, unlike the craven ***** civilizations of Western Europe and Asia that bowed down to tyrants.

a babbler coming to the forum and enjoys the westener arrogance. nothing special des. irgnorance is the 1st step on the decline ;)

Grzegorz_Threads: 81 Posts: 6,213 Joined: Nov 16, 06 ♂	Dec 10, 11, 22:15 #23
EM_Wave: I doubt it. Since Sarmatians were Iranian http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antes_%28people%29

Des EssientesThreads: 11 Posts: 2,318 Joined: Feb 6, 10 ♂ [Suspended]	Dec 10, 11, 22:19 #24
Not only were the Antes Sarmatians but so too both "Serb" and "Croat" were originally the names of Sarmatian war bands. A branch of the latter, the White Croatians, lived in the Podhale region of Poland for some time before moving to Dalmatia.

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Dec 10, 11, 23:24 #25

EM_Wave:

I hate to say it, but the ancient Slavs were so behind other civilizations that we can't even find any writings about their pagan religion.

I hate to say it but you simply are not reading the right material; time to do some grown up reading and broaden your horizons beyond the comic strips and tabloids. The Slavs are the largest mass of European peoples sharing common ethnic and linguistic roots encompassing Half of Europe in their realm and it’s still Tara incognita in your tiny understanding of the world’s history

Jak Jegomość nie wierzy to do szabli niechybnie proszę. Czas szykować rynsztunek i uładzić własne sprawy boś mi honor splamił ty psubracie! Synu Wasilowy!

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Dec 11, 11, 00:10 #26

ShortHairThug:

The Slavs are the largest mass of European peoples sharing common ethnic and linguistic roots encompassing Half of Europe in their realm and it’s still Tara incognita in your tiny understanding of the world’s history

What would the Boer know, anyway. We Slavs may be a lot of things, but we didn't invent Apartheid, and we never did any hand-chopping like his Low Country descendants did.

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Dec 11, 11, 00:17 #27

ShortHairThug:

I hate to say it but you simply are not reading the right material; time to do some grown up reading and broaden your horizons beyond the comic strips and tabloids. The Slavs are the largest mass of European peoples sharing common ethnic and linguistic roots encompassing Half of Europe in their realm and it’s still Tara incognita in your tiny understanding of the world’s history

Thanks for the lovely paragraph. That still doesn't hide the fact that no writing exists about their religion.

Sidliste_Chodov:

What would the Boer know, anyway. We Slavs may be a lot of things, but we didn't invent Apartheid, and we never did any hand-chopping like his Low Country descendants did.

1.) I'm not a Boer.

2.) I'm a Slavic/Germanic mix.

MEMBER ♀

Dec 11, 11, 05:18 #28

Editing my post here:

My sensations described above could be interpreted to fit into Jungian very stretched and maximized definition of Collective Unconscious which is inheritable (I think he was trying to please the audience restricting the concept and dividing it into categories, while intimately he was onto something bigger, his other texts show that, like universality of genetic based symbols, etc).

I have permeable border between conscious and subconscious systems (those who worked in psy clinics will understand :)))), so I think I might be right. The other explanation would be that sleeping disorder is a symptom of something else.

Back to relevance of the past.

There is a genetic predisposition for certain behaviors to emerge, and interaction between genotype and environment. But, newer thesis is that environments are heritable as well, but also they are objects of our modifications, hence our phenotype. We know that some environments are less amenable to change and those are less heritable. simplified, introverts are for example doomed to replay the family history recreating the same environment , while extroverts change environments more easily that affects their behavior and genetical vulnerabilities can be avoided.

So, genome and environments are heritable. I believe that everything is heritable. History is a hereditary and family thing :) Just extrapolate this from small systems to bigger ones. To Big families. So Pawian, I do understand you.

stop the earth i want to get off

DaveInCalThreads: - Posts: 21 Joined: Jan 28, 07 ♂	Dec 11, 11, 11:55 #29
It's hard to say who is actually descended from ancient Sarmatians. I would suggest that Slavs could be described as the modern Sarmatians in a geographical sense. Slavs are located on land that used to be the realm of ancient Sarmatia.

southernThreads: 116 Posts: 10,955 Joined: May 17, 07 ♂	Dec 11, 11, 15:52 #30
EM_Wave: I'm a Slavic/Germanic mix. You sound more like a Black.

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