TRANSLATE 1907 ELLIS ISLAND PLACE OF ORIGIN "SWINKY-WILNO" "BEROFKY" "OSLRO

OBLAST1

Mar 8, 11, 15:25 #1

ANYONE CONFIRM ETHNIC POLISH PRONUNCIATION OF EXACT PLACE OF ORIGIN
["SWINKY-WILNO"] AS [SWIENCIANY DISTRICT/VILNIUS GUBERNIYA][RUSSIAN PALE]?
ANYONE WITH POLISH WHO MIGHT [TRANSLATE] "OSLROFKY" AND "BEROFKY" INTO
[EXPANDED] TOWNS/VILLAGES [LIKE OSINOWKA[?
SURNAME [DURO/DYRO] EITHER BUTCHERED IN 1906 ELLIS ISLAND OR ANGLICIZED
BEFORE U.S. ARRIVAL - ANYONE WITH POLISH WHO MIGHT BE ABLE TO [RECONSTRUCT]
ORIGIN OF SHORTENED-ANGLICIZED [DYRO-DURO]; STANISLAW DURO-DYRO ARRIVED
U.S. WITH WILENKO [SIPILO]/OSIOPOV OR OSIP RUSKA/ROSKA/OSIPOV/OSIP MISYURA/
IWAN/IVAN MINOS/MIKHAIL BAKEWICZ - ALL FROM "OSLROFKY" AND "BEROFKY" IN
"SWINKY-WILNO"; ANYONE WITH POLISH RECOGNIZE [SZYPKO][ANGLICIZED AS SHIPKO]
AS ETHNIC SURNAME SWIENCIANY DISTRICT VILNIUS GUBERNIYA 1855-1907?

ANYONE TRANSLATE "SWINKY-WILNO" 1855-1907 RUSSIAN PALE VILNIUS GUBERNIYA?

ANYONE TRANSLATE "OSLROFKY" AND "BEROFKY" IN "SWINKY-WILNO" 1900?

ANYONE [RECONSTRUCT] SURNAME [DURO-DYRO] BUTCHERED OR ANGLICIZED 1906?

[ETHNIC POLISH IN RUSSIAN PALE 1855-1907]

enkiduThreads: 18 Posts: 983 Joined: Sep 23, 08 ♂	Mar 8, 11, 15:27 #2
ANYONE CAN READ IT WITHOUT PAIN?

HarryThreads: 62 Posts: 8,508 Joined: May 2, 07 ♂ [Suspended]	Mar 8, 11, 15:32 #3
enkidu: ANYONE CAN READ IT WITHOUT PAIN? I CAN'T HEAR HIM. WHAT DOES HE WANT?

OBLAST1	Mar 8, 11, 15:35 #4
CAN YOU CONFIRM ETHNIC POLISH PRONUNCIATION "SWINKY-WILNO" AS SWIENCIANY DISTRICT VILNIUS GUBERNIYA

enkiduThreads: 18 Posts: 983 Joined: Sep 23, 08 ♂	Mar 8, 11, 15:37 #5
Harry: enkidu: ANYONE CAN READ IT WITHOUT PAIN? I CAN'T HEAR HIM. WHAT DOES HE WANT? I THINK HE WANT TO SAY "PLEASE". :)

OBLAST1

Mar 8, 11, 17:05 #6

PolishForum.com expert in Russian Pale Polish Minority pronunciation
Vilnius [Wilno] Guberniya 1855-1900 pls. [translate] 1907 Ellis Island
ancestor response to U.S. customs question: exact place of origin -
["Swinky-Wilno"] villages of ["berofky" and "oslrofky"]

PolishForum.com Polish Surname expert Russian Pale Polish Minority
1855-1900 pls. [reconstruct] 1906-1907 ancestor's last name - most
likely [anglicized] in New York/Boston or altered before arrival - surname
given in 1907 as [Dyro] and in 1906 as [Duro]

1907 Boston arrival [amalja/emilia

PolishForums.com expert in Russian Pale Polish Minority Language
Vilnius Guberniya [Wilno] probably Swienciany District 1855-1900
pls. [translate] 1907 ancestor response to U.S. Customs demand
for [Exact Place of Origin]: ["Swinky-Wilno"]["berofky"/"oslrofky"]

Polish Forums.com expert in Russian Pale Polish Minority [Surnames]
Vilnius Guverniya 1855-1900 pls. [Reconstruct] 1906-1907 U.S. Customs
Recording of [Duro/1906 New York][Dyro/1907 Boston] as [Surname] -

1907 arrival of [Amalja/Emilia Dyro/Duro] Boston listed [Maiden]
Name as [Szypko] anglicized as [Shipko]

Stanislaw Duro/Dyro arrived with osipov/osip sipilo/osipov/osip misyura-misuro/
ivan/iwan minos/osipov/osip rosca/ruska/impolt riskewicz/witz/egnac bakewitz
all from the same place ["O" ending is unusual - could it have been "A" ]

cannot recognize [duro/dyro/sipilo/misuro] as Polish Minority Russian Pale
surname forms - i can find [misyura] and [ruska] - PolishForums.com expert
pls. [Reconstruct] probable original form of anglicized/altered [duro/dyro/szypko]

greatly appreciated

♂

Edited by: gumishu Mar 8, 11, 17:13 #7

OBLAST1:

CAN YOU CONFIRM ETHNIC POLISH PRONUNCIATION
"SWINKY-WILNO" AS SWIENCIANY DISTRICT VILNIUS GUBERNIYA

Święciany is a town in present-day Lithuania (the vicinity has strong Polish presence though) (the Lithuanian name of the town is Švenčionys)

Swinky seems to be a name of a little place (a village) and its Polish graphic form can be Świnki but it is just a guess cause I don't actually know the vicinity of Święciany - I actually have found a community of Świr in Święciany district but it can be in fact a different place - and after all Świnki can be somewhere else in the former gubernatorate of Wilno (guberniya Vilno in Russian) and not Święciany district - the records you quote are not very clear

Oslrofky and Berofky are misrepresentations of Ostrovki and Berovki which look to me like Belorussian place names and these rather small (villages presumably) - they can possibly be place names of Święciany vicinity but they can be actually be from anywhere else in the present day Belarussia - still Święciany is next to the present Lithuanian-Belarusian border

as for the surnames you mention - all of them perhaps except Stanisław Duro/Dyro which can be Polish are Ruthenian (Belarusian) - let someone else tell you if there are people in present day Poland who bear the Duro/Dyro surname

I hope this helps a bit

edit: ok I have identified a small village Świnka in Święciany district in the vicinity of Wiszniów (it could have been called Świnki in different sources or by the locals) - one caveat: the place could exist no more

I don't think I will be able to identify those other place names

OBLAST1

Mar 8, 11, 19:47 #8

Greatly Appreciated - thank you

Emilia/Amalja [Szypko][anglicized as [Shipko] arrived 1907; her
husband Stanislaw [Duro] [written this way in New York 1906]
changed the spelling to [Dyro] in the first [census] in the U.S.;

Emilia's mother was [Petronilla/Petronella] - Stanislaw's father
was [Tomas] mother [Roza/Rosa] -

Have only [swinky-wilno] as exact place of origin - wilno gubenatore
bordered Belarus or was part of Grodno Gubenatore 1855-1900

These people claimed Polish ethnicity - until 1930 they listed their
country of origin as [Russia] -

I cannot find any Polish names that end in [O] - [Dyro] is an unlikely
spelling - [Duro] is an unlikely spelling - Duro and Dyro have to be
anglicized or shortened - both names suggest that the ancestors
wanted to hide origins - in your expertise is [Wilenko Sipilo] a Polish
Minority surname or Belarussian? Is [Osip-Osipov Minuro] a Polish
name? Had these people already anglicized or disguised their names
before entering U.S.?

In your expertise, do [Dyro][Duro] register in SOUNDEX - sound like any
rutherian polish minority surnames? What [letters] in Polish make the
[u] and [y] sounds? Can you tell if [Szypko][shipko] is belarussian or
polish minority?

Given that Duro-Dyro, bakewitz, riskewitz/roska-ruska, misyura-misuro,
minos, sipilo were all [sponsored] by the same person already in the U.S.
[Egnac bakewitz/wicz] and all born 1876-1880 they must have been from
the same village/town in the Wilno/Grodno Gubenatores

thank you again - if in your expertize you could take a shot at reconstructing
[Duro/Dyro] into something more probable in origin - something Belarussian
or bordering, it would be great -

with much appreciation oblast

OBLAST1	Mar 8, 11, 20:10 #9
Amalja/Emilia Szypko arrived U.S. with [cousin] Martijanna Tumaschova if this helps you confirm place of origin thank you [gumishu]

♂

Mar 8, 11, 20:56 #10

both Dyro and Duro surnames are present among population of today's Poland - both are very rare - both seem to be of eastern (Ruthenian or Ukrainian) origin but it's not obvious (there are plenty of Polish names that end in -o btw ) - I can't judge what was the original surname of Stanisław back where he came from (I mean I can't judge wether it was originally Duro or Dyro) but I don't think (I believe it highly unlikely) it was somehow specially shortened by those who bore it on entering the U.S.

it looks like your ancestors were Polish of eastern outskirts of Polish nationality - they bear typically Polish first names of the time (and not Russian or Ruthenian ones) - Petronela, Emilia, Stanisław, Tomasz and Róża were all popular Polish first names of the time

the country (or rather state)of their origin was indeed Russia because Poland didn't exist as a state at this time - and it covered much land inhabited by people who considered themselves Polish

Osip and Ivan are typically Belarusian first names and the surnames also seem to be Belarusian

Szypko can be a Polish surname of Belarusian extraction (this is due to how Polish ethnicity developed on the border of Lithuanian and Belarusian national areas) - it is now extremely rare in Poland and there are no clear indications of its origins

Ignac Bakiewicz (the English spelling Egnac reflects somewhat the Polish pronounciation) - the first name is typically Polish (its proper form is Ignacy but Ignac was definitely used among common people - Bakiewicz is a surname of Belarussian origin (but I already mentioned that many people who considered themselves Polish bore surnames of Belarussian extraction) - the person must have been Polish than

some of the people sponsored by Ignac(y) Bakiewicz could have been Belarussian (typically orthodox first names) rather than Polish - but some were clearly Polish - this can be little surprise as Polish (mostly catholic) and Belarusian groups often lived side by side there at the time

I have already located small village (or in fact perhaps a couple of neighbouring small villages all) called Świnka which could back in the late 80's have been called Świnki by the locals to be in the Święcajny district (district was not typically larger than some 20 x 20 miles - historically this area was as reported in your documents part of the Vilnius/Vilno/Wilno guberniya (gubernatorate) - guberniyas were the primary divisions of the Russian Empire back then) - Święcajny area had quite a mixed population it seems back than though majority (say some 50 per cent) considered themselves Polish (there were also Lithuanians, Belarusians (not called this name in Tsarist Russia and not even considered different folk from the Russians) and Jews)

OBLAST1

Mar 8, 11, 21:44 #11

THANK YOU FOR YOUR EXPERTISE AND RESEARCH

YOUR KNOWLEDGE OF RESEARCH IS AMAZING - I CAN FIND NOTHING IN ANY
DATABASES

EMILIA SZYPKO'S SON [BRONISLAW] BORN 1903 SWINKI IN WILNO GAINED ENTRANCE
TO THE JEWISH HOME FOR THE AGED PORTLAND MAINE U.S. 1979 [HEART FAILURE]
BY CLAIMING HIS MOTHER WAS JEWISH - IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN JUST A FORMALITY
OF CHARITY WORK AT THE HOME. COULD [SZYPKO][SHIPKO] HAVE BEEN POLISH/
JEWISH IN BELARUS?

[DYRO] IS IN YOUR RESEARCH A COMPLETE UNSHORTENED NAME ALBEIT RARE -
THANK YOU - DURO IS ALSO COMPLETE

HOW DOES AN EASTERN RUSSIAN PALE FAMILY ACQUIRE A RARE POLISH NAME ENDING IN [O]

♂

Edited by: gumishu Mar 8, 11, 22:02 #12

OBLAST1:

HOW DOES AN EASTERN RUSSIAN PALE FAMILY ACQUIRE A RARE POLISH NAME ENDING IN [O]

as I have stated both Duro and Dyro names are probably of Belarusian origin (one could perhaps arise as a surname in Ukraine rather than present day Belarusia but this is just my theory) - Polish ethnicity arised on the border zone between Lithuanian and Belarusian national areas in the course of 17th and 18th (perhaps into the 19th) centuries - it was mostly the native people of the land (either Lithuanian or Belarusian) who accepted the Polish language and identity mainly because Polish became the best means of the communication in this border zone - the local nobility (most of them were petty nobility) were the avantgarde of the changes - perhaps there was some minor influx of Polish nationals from the lands of Polish Crown - a strong Jesuit presence may have significantly influenced the process (they have almost monopolised education in many areas promoting Polish language and catholicism in areas were orthodox church was once dominant though you have to keep in mind education was rather exclusively the privilege of the nobility - though sometimes their material status did not have much significance)

I don't believe Emilia Szypko was of pure Jewish ancestry - but she could have been of mixed ancestry - I wouldn't associate surname Szypko to Jewish ancestry - so if she was of mixed ancestry her mother must have been Jewish - this actually goes well along the lines how Jews traditionally view their ancestry - you're Jewish if your mother is Jewish - the Jewish mother of Emilia (if she really was Jewish) could have converted to catholicism on marrying her husband - there were instances of mixed Polish-Jewish marriages in the area historically but I am unaware of how common they were

jonniThreads: 26 Posts: 4,181 Joined: Nov 27, 07 ♂	Mar 8, 11, 22:04 #13
OBLAST1: HT HAVE BEEN JUST A FORMALITY OF CHARITY WORK AT THE HOME. COULD [SZYPKO][SHIPKO] HAVE BEEN POLISH/ JEWISH IN BELARUS? [DYRO] IS IN YOUR RESEA For fuck's sake stop typing in capitals!

♂

Mar 8, 11, 22:48 #14

My guess:

OBLAST1:

Emilia/Amalja [Szypko]

Emilia Szybko - rather Polish

OBLAST1:

husband Stanislaw [Duro]

Stanisław Durowski/Durowicz vel Dyrowski/Dyrowcz or Duro/Dyro- Polish

OBLAST1:

Osip-Osipov Minuro

Definitely not Polish name!

OBLAST1:

bakewitz

Bakiewicz - Polish

OBLAST1:

riskewitz

Ryszkiewicz ? -Polish

OBLAST1:

Martijanna Tumaschova

Marianna Tomaszowa - Polish

OBLAST1:

Egnac bakewitz/wicz

Ignacy Bakiewicz - Polish

♂

Mar 8, 11, 23:02 #15

Ironside:

OBLAST1:
Martijanna Tumaschova

Marianna Tomaszowa - Polish

it's definitely not Marianna but Marcjanna (a popular Polish first name in the past) still it is trancripted in such way that it suggests that the person could have been to some degree Belarusian rather than Polish or of mixed cultural allegiance (because Marcjanna is not a typically orthodox name but would have been probably spelled this way by someone using something rather more Belarusian than Polish) - the same goes to the surname - it can prove to be on culturall crossroads between Polish and Belarusian -
- the strange form of the first name and surname can however be also attributed to the tsarist administration somewhat russifying Polish names in their documents - I don't know if it was the dominating procedure

OBLAST1	Mar 8, 11, 23:18 #16
Thank You - these active surnames settle the issue - thank you for the mixed ethnicity tip - your effort is much appreciated

gumishuThreads: 17 Posts: 3,943 Joined: Apr 6, 09 ♂	Mar 8, 11, 23:31 #17
you are most welcome :)

POLAND . The Unofficial Guide	Unanswered \| Archives
POLAND . The Unofficial Guide	Poles in Poland and Abroad	Witamy, Guest \| PF Members \| Gold Members

Home \| Unanswered \| Archives \| Random \| Statistics	Time in Poland: 16:10 / May 26
About Us \| Contact Us \| Rules, Privacy \| Poland Advertising	© 2005-12 PolishForums.com