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Czech language sounds like baby talk to most Poles


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RobertLeeThreads: 12
Posts: 133
Joined: May 26, 11 ♂ 		 Jun 14, 11, 21:04    #1
I asked around and people agree. They say it is funny, contains only diminutives, it is "a mockery of a language for adults".
This claim is not offensive to Czech people (cause who doesn't like children, right?).
delphiandomineThreads: 42
Posts: 9,954
Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ [Suspended] 		 Jun 14, 11, 21:11    #2
RobertLee:
I asked around and people agree. They say it is funny, contains only diminutives, it is "a mockery of a language for adults".
This claim is not offensive to Czech people (cause who doesn't like children, right?).


Tell me, do you speak Polish?
RobertLeeThreads: 12
Posts: 133
Joined: May 26, 11 ♂ 		 Jun 14, 11, 21:12    #3
delphiandomine:
Tell me, do you speak Polish?

Yes.
PennBoyThreads: 157
Posts: 3,441
Joined: Dec 7, 08  Pictures: 2 ♂ 		 Jun 14, 11, 21:14    #4
delphiandomine:
Tell me, do you speak Polish?

Asks the guy who doesn't speak Polish ;)
delphiandomineThreads: 42
Posts: 9,954
Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ [Suspended] 		 Jun 14, 11, 21:27    #5
RobertLee:
Yes.


Lies.

From your profile -

Znasz j. polski? a bit

"A bit" hardly counts as "speaking Polish".

You seem to be making the typical foreigner mistake of believing everything that Polish people tell you.

For what it's worth, the Czechs say the same thing about the Poles.
sobieskiThreads: 82
Posts: 1,142
Joined: Jun 1, 08 ♂ 		 Jun 14, 11, 22:05    #6
RobertLee:
I asked around and people agree. They say it is funny, contains only diminutives, it is "a mockery of a language for adults".
This claim is not offensive to Czech people (cause who doesn't like children, right?).

You are pathetic. Sarah Palin in disguise?
I know you rednecks can hardly count to three...but for what it is worth...
Czech is together with Slovak and Sorbic a West Slavonic language. The Czechs were civilized when you rednecks were still living in some trees drinking bud.
Lyzko  Jun 14, 11, 22:09    #7
Actually, many Poles tell me that Croatian sounds like 'baby-talk' to themlol

Czech seems to have with Polish a peculiar propensity for the most devlish of tongue twisters, what with such a consonant-cluster heavy language-:)
RobertLeeThreads: 12
Posts: 133
Joined: May 26, 11 ♂ 		 Jun 14, 11, 22:13    #8
delphiandomine:
You seem to be making the typical foreigner mistake

I once heard people saying that Poles are nowhere "u siebie", Poland included, so yes, I might be a foreigner :D
You seem to be more interested in my command of Polish than my Polish literature teacher.

sobieski:
Czech is together with Slovak and Sorbic a West Slavonic language

You forgot to add Polish to this list.
Antek_StalichThreads: 6
Posts: 1,533
Joined: May 6, 11 ♂ 		Edited by: Antek_Stalich  Jun 14, 11, 22:40    #9
The matter why the Czech language is so different from Polish is rather simple but it requires some historical background.

In 1620, Catholic army of the Habsburg dynasty won a decisive battle over Protestant Czech forces in the battle of White Mountain (Bila Hora) in then Bohemia. Not only significant number of Czech nobles were killed, more to be executed soon, but Habsburgs initiated violent re-catholicisation of Bohemia. This involved severe repressions towards those who didn't want to obey the new rulers and religion. As the effect, the Czech nobility and literate people left the country. For next 160 years, Bohemia and Moravia (area of Czech Republic of today) got completely germanized, only countryside speaking local dialects as well as rare people in the cities.

Note: Partitioned Poland had never lost the Polish language for 144 years but Bohemians lost their language in the homeland due to lack of the Czech elite there and due to lack of any Church that might help Czech people retain the language. On contrary, partitioned Poland retained her elite, the Church and the language.

Following the abolition of serfdom by Holy Roman Emperor Joseph II in 1781, migration of village population to cities combined with efforts of national thinking Czech intellectuals began what is called Czech National Revival which lasted to 1840s. New Czech language was created, or recreated by that principle:

The Czech language shall be re-created from as many local dialects as possible as well as of the ancient Czech but is should be as much different from the Polish language as possible PERIOD.

Why so? The Czech nation was already predominantly atheist (because they did not want to conform to the Catholic faith and could not practice the Protestant religion) -- and Poland was Catholic; and sided by a large Polish nation, Czech revivalists were afraid the Czech language would lose its identity by the Polish element. This way, the Czech vocabulary, grammar, and pronunciation are totally different from the Polish language.

It was not the end of the story: The danger was not only the Polish language but also German. Therefore, Czech language purists watched carefully whether the Czech language was not being littered with German. Any germanism was thoroughly removed.

Funny thing is, there are three versions of the Czech language: "High" Czech, clinically pure, spoken officially; "popular" Czech involving words from other languages, e.g., German, Polish or... English, spoken in the streets; and "folk" Czech, consisting of local dialects, such as the lingo of Beskyd (Beskidy) highlanders.

I hope that RobertLee can now understand how naieve the views of him and his friends have been.

By the way, as much Czech seems "childish" to Poles as much Polish seems "boorish" to Czechs. Say "zachód" (west) in Polish, and it is "privy" to Czechs. Say "szukać" (search) in Polish, and it is "fcuk" for Czechs ;)
Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11
Posts: 14,563
Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂ 		Edited by: Bratwurst Boy  Jun 14, 11, 22:44    #10
Antek_Stalich:
On contrary, partitioned Poland retained her elite, the Church and the language.


Those mean Prussians!

Antek_Stalich:
ny germanism was thoroughly removed.


Not with the many Germans living there...

Charles University in Prague (also simply Charles University; Czech: Univerzita Karlova v Praze; Latin: Universitas Carolina Pragensis; German: Karls-Universität zu Prag) is the oldest and largest university in the Czech Republic. Founded in 1348, it was the first university in Central Europe and is also considered the earliest German university.[1] It is one of the oldest universities in Europe in continuous operation.
Antek_StalichThreads: 6
Posts: 1,533
Joined: May 6, 11 ♂ 		Edited by: Antek_Stalich  Jun 14, 11, 22:48    #11
In Września, right.
BB, are you not ashamed to litter quite serious thread? As if I was littering your path...

Bratwurst Boy:
Antek_Stalich: Any germanism was thoroughly removed.
Not with the many Germans living there...


With "high" Czech, totally. German words remain in street Czech. I see you're a frequent visitor to the Czech Republic and can speak Czech?

Bratwusts: Who fights with Wikipedia, of Wikipedia dies:
The Czech language was more or less eradicated from state administration, literature, schools, Charles University and among the upper classes. Books written in Czech were burned and any publication in Czech was considered to be heresy by the Jesuits. The Czech language was reduced to a means of communication between peasants, who were often illiterate. Therefore, the Revival looked for inspiration among ordinary Czechs in the countryside.
Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11
Posts: 14,563
Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂ 		Edited by: Bratwurst Boy  Jun 14, 11, 22:51    #12
Antek_Stalich:
BB, are you not ashamed to litter quite serious thread? As if I was littering your path...


Well...you should bring dates to your posts. The modern state of what once was Bohemia and Moravia pursued the same kind of ethnical cleansing as Poland did after the war and the policy of anti-germanism including "cleansing" the language of any germanism started only in the interwar period.

Before that for nearly 2000 years Germans and the german language had been integral to these lands. It was part of the HRE for centuries...

Just saying...
Antek_StalichThreads: 6
Posts: 1,533
Joined: May 6, 11 ♂ 		 Jun 14, 11, 22:53    #13
Bratwurst, I'm not the one with who you fight endless debates and I will not have your bullshit. We are talking about re-creation the modern Czech and comparison of it with Polish.
PennBoyThreads: 157
Posts: 3,441
Joined: Dec 7, 08  Pictures: 2 ♂ 		 Jun 14, 11, 22:54    #14
Antek_Stalich:
With "high" Czech, totally. German words remain in street Czech.

Aren't Czechs themselves because of those centuries of outside influence a big genetic melting pot. They're more or less 1/3 Slavic, 1/3 Germanic, 1/3 Latin (Mediterranean). This must be where the beauty of Czech women comes from :)
Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11
Posts: 14,563
Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂ 		Edited by: Bratwurst Boy  Jun 14, 11, 22:55    #15
Antek_Stalich:
Bratwurst, I'm not the one with who you fight endless debates and I will not have your bullshit. We are talking about re-creation the modern Czech and comparison of it with Polish.


Well..then bring dates with your posts...it can't be so hard, can't it!

PennBoy:
This must be where the beauty of Czech women comes from :)


Stereotypes have it that the Czechs are the Germans of the slavic people! ;)

I have no idea though...
SeanusThreads: 22
Posts: 30,158
Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂ 		 Jun 14, 11, 22:56    #16
Way back in 2005, I used to listen to a Czech radio station from Olomouc as it had great music. I could really hear the similarities to Polish. It is weaker for sure but, then again, so are most Slavic languages. To my knowledge, only Poles pronounce wieczór that hard. The Czechs don't, the Russians neither (oj to ne vecher). I love the way young Poles speak. The kid of my wife's bro is SOOOOO cute. He says byba instead of ryba. So many things are 'ka' and you are left guessing as to what he means. I guess Czechs would identify with him ;0 ;)
Antek_StalichThreads: 6
Posts: 1,533
Joined: May 6, 11 ♂ 		Edited by: Antek_Stalich  Jun 14, 11, 22:59    #17
Bratwurst Boy:
Well..then bring dates with your posts...it can't be so hard, can't it!

What fcuking dates?! In 1620 Habsburg tanned the Czech asses. Since then Czech language disappeared soon. The Czech National Revival started around 1780 and the new language was ready in 1840s. What else will you like to know? Ask goddam Magdalena, she's Czech and know everything about it!

Moreover, read "Good Soldier Svejk", Brattie. Here's famous sentence:
-- We Austrian, disregarding German or Czech are far more civilized than those Hungarian peasants.

The Svejk action dates to 1914.

Czech people were so tired with Austrian/German domination they actually sought Panslavic help in Russians, the same Russians being enemies of Poles in the same era!
Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11
Posts: 14,563
Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂ 		 Jun 14, 11, 23:01    #18
*goes looking for Magdalena*
PennBoyThreads: 157
Posts: 3,441
Joined: Dec 7, 08  Pictures: 2 ♂ 		 Jun 14, 11, 23:01    #19
Seanus:
Way back in 2005, I used to listen to a Czech radio station from Olomouc as it had great music. I could really hear the similarities to Polish. It is weaker for sure but, then again, so are most Slavic languages.

My Mexican friend tells me Polish sounds hard, maybe from the Slavic languages but German sounds much more hard overall.
SeanusThreads: 22
Posts: 30,158
Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂ 		 Jun 14, 11, 23:05    #20
I'm not to keen on the German language. Czech sounds funny to me but even funnier to most Poles. I must sound Czech sometimes as I try to say words like 'czepek'. I always say it too weak.
Antek_StalichThreads: 6
Posts: 1,533
Joined: May 6, 11 ♂ 		Edited by: Antek_Stalich  Jun 14, 11, 23:08    #21
Seanus:
Way back in 2005, I used to listen to a Czech radio station from Olomouc as it had great music. I could really hear the similarities to Polish. It is weaker for sure but, then again, so are most Slavic languages. To my knowledge, only Poles pronounce wieczór that hard. The Czechs don't, the Russians neither (oj to ne vecher). I love the way young Poles speak. The kid of my wife's bro is SOOOOO cute. He says byba instead of ryba. So many things are 'ka' and you are left guessing as to what he means. I guess Czechs would identify with him ;0 ;)

Szones, I think I have enough.

I started my Czech travels in 1991 and travel to Czech Republic regularly. I'm fascinated with Czech language. I read Czech books. Still, after 20 years I cannot say a proper Czech sentence not even talking pronunciation!

Goddam! No Pole except special cases such as philologists could pronounce the word "kříž" (cross) properly because of those hard "ř"s, soft "ž"s, long and short vowels, stress on first syllable (always) and totally upside-down grammar!

The language is not to be learned by any AVERAGE Pole and this is the point in Czech.
Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11
Posts: 14,563
Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂ 		 Jun 14, 11, 23:11    #22
Antek_Stalich:
Goddam! No Pole except special cases such as philologists could pronounce the word "kříž" (cross) properly because of those hard "ř"s, soft "ž"s, long and short vowels, stress on first syllable (always) and totally upside-down grammar!


Actually that seems easy...for a German. I speak it naturally as you describe it. Hmmm....interesting....
SeanusThreads: 22
Posts: 30,158
Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂ 		Edited by: Seanus  Jun 14, 11, 23:12    #23
My Polish friend speaks Czech as he does business there. He has minor problems only. I guess I understand the Czechs softness better. I imagine the following song to be much easier for a Czech person than for a Pole, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYdHE3qe-4Q&playnext=1&list=PL5DBBD4A1A 315E5BF, the sounds are softer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tT7QbT5ckw4&feature=related, a beautiful Russian woman singing a beautiful Russian song about a cap, dancing and prancing around :) I hear some similar Czech sounds :)
Antek_StalichThreads: 6
Posts: 1,533
Joined: May 6, 11 ♂ 		Edited by: Antek_Stalich  Jun 14, 11, 23:20    #24
No, Seanus. Poles have no problems with Russian, Ukrainian etc. Poles have problems with Czech.
Your friend.... Well, I presented this Czech song to Magdalena:
http://www.nk.art.pl/makenzen/makenzen_zatimco.mp3
And do you know what Magdalena said? "Probably a Pole, Czech philologist, good Czech, still I spot deficiencies such as... [list]"

Are you telling me Seanus my friend who sang the song does it badly? Still she, M.A. in Czech language cannot pronounce like a Czech can.

Listen to this, too:

The only Polish words are: 'Uwaga, uwaga, palenie titonia powoduje raka" (it should be 'tytoniu'). That would be 'Pozor, pozor, kureni tabaka posobuji rakovinu".... in Czech.

Does the song sound Polish to you? Do you hear this language in Gliwice? ;-)
SeanusThreads: 22
Posts: 30,158
Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂ 		 Jun 14, 11, 23:26    #25
It sounds a bit like a weaker version of Kazik Staszewski :) Clearly not a Polish guy although there is variation in Poland. The Highlanders here (góraly) speak quiet soft. The Gazdówka menu is translated from Polish to Góral, LOL. Czechs would identify with it more.
Lyzko  Jun 14, 11, 23:30    #26
The most salient argument in favor of the historical preponderance of the German over the (native!) Czech language, is that not only did Prag belong to the Austro-Hungarian Empire (in which German remained the dominant language), but many of her most famous authors, both Jewish and non-Jewish, wrote in German, NOT Czech, e.g. Kafka, Meyrink and others.
Antek_StalichThreads: 6
Posts: 1,533
Joined: May 6, 11 ♂ 		Edited by: Antek_Stalich  Jun 14, 11, 23:32    #27
Seanus, the matter is not in softness. The matter is:
1. Totally different vocabulary. Where we Poles say "metal" they say "kov", Where we say "sklep" they say "sklad" but they believe it is "cellar". When we hear "smiseni zbozi" we believe they talk about mixed cereal but they mean multi-branch store.

2. Totally different grammar. To learn Czech grammar, a Pole has to forget the whole Polish grammar.

3. Totally different pronunciation.

I have no problems with Russian. Russians praise my Muscovite pronunciation, softness of my speech. Seanus, have you ever HEARD the pronunciation of the Czech phoneme "ř"? It is so HARD a Pole cannot say it.

Paste this word kříž to Google Translate and press "Listen". Then try with Polish krzyż. You will hear "kszysz".
SeanusThreads: 22
Posts: 30,158
Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂ 		 Jun 14, 11, 23:33    #28
Copernicus wrote in Latin but he was Polish/German ;) ;)

Anyway, I hear Czech sounds differently now. The accent is fundamentally different but it's nice. I was in Brno and they sound so lush.
Lyzko  Jun 14, 11, 23:36    #29
Czech shares with Ukrainian the softening of the initial "g"-sound such as 'holub'/'holub' vs. Polish 'gołąb', 'holodni' vs. 'głódny' etc...
Antek_StalichThreads: 6
Posts: 1,533
Joined: May 6, 11 ♂ 		Edited by: Antek_Stalich  Jun 14, 11, 23:39    #30
Lyzko:
The most salient argument in favor of the historical preponderance of the German over the (native!) Czech language, is that not only did Prag belong to the Austro-Hungarian Empire (in which German remained the dominant language), but many of her most famous authors, both Jewish and non-Jewish, wrote in German, NOT Czech, e.g. Kafka, Meyrink and others.

Lyzko, we are discussing nothing else than modern Czech language and its presumed similarity to Polish.
Any other discussion will result in massive offtopic, you have already seen BB.
I can only assure you Czechs haven't forgotten 1938.

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