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IS "MURZYN" word RACIST?


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convexThreads: 46
Posts: 7,185
Joined: Nov 25, 09  Pictures: 2 ♂ 		 Aug 2, 10, 14:23    #151
MrBubbles:
OK fair enough. How about 'ten biały' or something? That would be a statement of fact in this circumstance..

would you describe a friend or family member to someone as murzyn?
MrBubblesThreads: 13
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Joined: Nov 13, 07 ♂ 		Edited by: MrBubbles  Aug 2, 10, 14:26    #152
But it would lack the same connotation. Murzyn would usually be black man in predominantly white society whereas bialas would be white man in predominantly white society...

convex:
would you describe a friend or family member to someone as murzyn?

I'd probably use their name
KKKevin  Sep 30, 10, 09:32    #153
"Murzyn" is like saying "Black" but it refers only to a
person

, not an object such as coffee roast or the color of a Car. It's Like saying, "hey, that black man has stolen her purse!...", hence I'd say "Hey, ten murzyn zajebał Jej torebkę!"

Get it ?!?!
richasisThreads: 5
Posts: 833
Joined: Jul 25, 09 ♂ 		 Sep 30, 10, 11:41    #154
MrBubbles:
Murzyn would usually be black man in predominantly white society whereas bialas would be white man in predominantly white society...

Right, and seeing as though Poland is a predominantly White society and Murzyn is a Polish word, it's all good.

:)
ShAlEyNsTfOhThreads: 8
Posts: 232
Joined: Feb 5, 11  Pictures: 4 ♂ [Suspended] 		 Dec 1, 11, 00:09    #155
Misty:
So people with Murzyn as a surname have a racist surname?


lol my thoughts exactly.

If u look up the word in a polish-english dictionary, it translates to nigger. :P
Sidliste_ChodovThreads: 2
Posts: 683
Joined: Jul 27, 11 ♂ 		 Dec 1, 11, 00:20    #156
ShAlEyNsTfOh:
If u look up the word in a polish-english dictionary, it translates to nigger. :P


That must have been a useless "Pol-Am" dictionary, then.

All the Polish dictionaries I own translate it as "black person" (non-offensive), not nigger.

Czarnuch (offensive) = nigger - as I suspect you very well know.
ShAlEyNsTfOhThreads: 8
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Joined: Feb 5, 11  Pictures: 4 ♂ [Suspended] 		 Dec 1, 11, 00:31    #157
Sidliste_Chodov:
Czarnuch (offensive) = nigger - as I suspect you very well know.


well, we Poles here in Toronto simply call them, along with south asians, brudasy.
ReservoirDogThreads: -
Posts: 220
Joined: Nov 22, 11 ♀ 		 Dec 1, 11, 00:34    #158
Julian Tuwim - Bambo

Murzynek Bambo w Afryce mieszka,
Czarną ma skórę ten nasz koleżka.

Uczy się pilnie przez całe ranki
Ze swej murzyńskiej Pierwszej czytanki.

A gdy do domu ze szkoły wraca,
Psoci, figluje - to jego praca.

Aż mama krzyczy: "Bambo, łobuzie!"
A Bambo czarną nadyma buzię.

Mama powiada: "Napij się mleka",
A on na drzewo mamie ucieka.

Mama powiada: "Chodź do kąpieli",
A on się boi, że się wybieli.

Lecz mama kocha swojego synka,
Bo dobry chłopak z tego Murzynka.

Szkoda, że Bambo czarny, wesoły,
Nie chodzi razem z nami do szkoły.

How Murzyn can be offensive, we have even poem about Murzynek, wrote by famous writer Tuwim. Murzyn is not nigger - it comes from word Maur, we use it from XIV century.. We can not say about black people who live in Poland Afroamericans...lol..maybe Afropolaki ?? Lol, but it's ridiculous.
openmindeder  Jan 27, 12, 17:46    #159
"Murzyn" is not nearly as racist as "Negro". Any word can be used in a racist way though. Anyway, this article explains clearly why "Murzyn" as such is not racist:

juraszek.net/czytelnia_czyobamajestmurzynem.html

Unfortunately, it's in Polish...
gumishuThreads: 17
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Joined: Apr 6, 09  Pictures: 1 ♂ 		 Jan 27, 12, 18:08    #160
openmindeder:
"Murzyn" is not nearly as racist as "Negro". Any word can be used in a racist way though. Anyway, this article explains clearly why "Murzyn" as such is not racist:


Polish HAS a really offensive word for a black person and it's not murzyn which is simply neutral
Jasieczek  Feb 5, 12, 12:56    #161
Bambus
Ralph  Feb 20, 12, 15:02    #162
Seanus:
Czarnuch is much stronger but Murzyn, with the correct intonation, is racist.

Any noun naming people of a certain race can, with time, become racist. With a certain (correct???) intonation "murzyn" can be racist. In regular everyday use, though, the word simply refers to a black person, most commonly African in origin and is NOT racist.

There was a time when African-Americans preferred the term "black" as opposed to "negro." After sometime, when "black" had been used in the perceived offensive context often enough, they have switched to "African-American." It too will be replaced when, some day, they discover the word "African" to have on its own much too negative connotations.
EquatorThreads: -
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Joined: Aug 10, 08 ♀ 		 Feb 20, 12, 19:48    #163
OK, as a Murzynka, I don’t find the word derogatory. From my understanding, based on information from my numerous Polish friends, it is just the word used to describe someone like me.

The fact is, I am a black woman…..and if Murzynka is what it is in the Polish language, that is what it is……

I am aware that its’ meaning can change, depending on what words are used in conjunction with it.

tanleyst  Feb 22, 12, 15:21    #164
The latter is deemed particularly offensive by some because of the white character (Eddie) frequently using terms like "King Kong", "Sambo" and "Nig-Nog" (and the black charcater returning the compliment with "Honky" etc). However, the programme was made to show the stupidity of racism, and the women in the series (wives of the men) are shown as sensible people who get along well, despite their idiotic husbands.


Thats right it was just good friendly banter before the pc brigade came along. It shows actually how great communication and interaction was at that time within mixed communities, now they would just stab each other if there was a difference.
PennBoyThreads: 157
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Joined: Dec 7, 08  Pictures: 2 ♂ 		 Feb 22, 12, 16:53    #165
Seanus:
Czarnuch is much stronger but Murzyn, with the correct intonation, is racist. Neutral my ass.

Czarnuch is definitely not a nice word. Murzyn I wouldn't say is racist just out of date. As is Nergo.
JonnyMThreads: 16
Posts: 4,487
Joined: Mar 9, 11 ♂ 		Edited by: JonnyM  Feb 22, 12, 19:24    #166
Exactly. I've only heard it used pejoratively. Murzyn like it's English equivalent 'moor' just sounds old-fashioned.
polishmamaThreads: 5
Posts: 300
Joined: Dec 2, 10 ♀ 		 Feb 22, 12, 20:29    #167
ShAlEyNsTfOh:
well, we Poles here in Toronto simply call them, along with south asians, brudasy


Perhaps your particular circle does, but I doubt highly ALL Poles in Toronto do.

Anyway, it's funny that nobody here has mentioned the origins of the word "Muszyn" in this thread. It means "Muslim" and at the time of the Muslim attempted invasion into Europe, Muslims from the Middle East were about the darkest that Poles had ever seen or imagined. Thus, the name has been used to describe anyone of dark skin color. So, perhaps, yes, it is racist.

Bambo sure as h*** is. Is that even still around in Poland? I've never seen it there myself. I thought it was from around the same time as when whites in America were painting themselves in shoe polish except an extremely large area around their mouths in black and white films and making fun of blacks. Btw, did you know Mexico has an equivalent of this as a children's tv show now? Idk how long it's been around though.
ladykangarooThreads: -
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Joined: Jan 2, 09 ♀ 		Edited by: ladykangaroo  Feb 22, 12, 21:06    #168
polishmama:
It means "Muslim"

Not exactly.
It stems from "Maur" - and "Maur", although used to describe muslims (especially those from northern Africa), originally meant just "black".
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Maurus

JonnyM:
Murzyn like it's English equivalent 'moor' just sounds old-fashioned.

That's quite close, however I would say "Murzyn" is used more often :)
polishmamaThreads: 5
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Joined: Dec 2, 10 ♀ 		 Feb 22, 12, 21:13    #169
ladykangaroo:
polishmama: It means "Muslim"Not exactly.It stems from "Maur" - and "Maur", although used to describe muslims (especially those from northern Africa), originally meant just "black".http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/MaurusJonnyM: Murzyn like it's English equivalent 'moor' just sounds old-fashioned.That's quite close, however I would say "Murzyn" is used more often :)


Interesting. That's a very different version than what I've ever heard/read. You might be right. But if it based on "Muslim", that's imo racist.

In the end, every country has a racial slur for every other country out there.
Kubusiek  Mar 9, 12, 20:44    #170
Murzyn is as neutral as it gets.
In slang it also means backroom boy.
JonnyMThreads: 16
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Joined: Mar 9, 11 ♂ 		 Mar 10, 12, 17:15    #171
Kubusiek:
In slang it also means backroom boy.

What do you think the rationale is for that?
Ralph  Mar 11, 12, 16:53    #172
The word MURZYN has originated in the times long before the Poles had any closer contacts with the blacks. It used to be, and still is, a descriptive word meaning a black-skinned person of African heritage. There has never been any significant black population in Poland, no history of black slavery - Poles had no need for a racist word to refer to "their" blacks. Recently, though, the PC brigade frowns upon any, however innocent, noting of a racial, ethnic, or even cultural (!) difference, calling it racist.
JonnyMThreads: 16
Posts: 4,487
Joined: Mar 9, 11 ♂ 		 Mar 11, 12, 19:07    #173
The origin of a word odd irrelevant. The use of a word is all that matters.

By the way, who are the 'PC brigade'?
.
delphiandomineThreads: 42
Posts: 9,954
Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ [Suspended] 		 Mar 11, 12, 23:02    #174
Ralph:
Recently, though, the PC brigade frowns upon any, however innocent, noting of a racial, ethnic, or even cultural (!) difference, calling it racist.


That would by why your kin screams every time Poland is mentioned in any way other than sickly sweetness, right?
rozumiemnicThreads: 4
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Joined: Nov 16, 09 ♀ 		 Mar 11, 12, 23:04    #175
JonnyM:
By the way, who are the 'PC brigade'?

oh I expect they are friends of the 'femi-fascists'.
Any word is racist if it is used in an aggressive or derogatory way.
gumishuThreads: 17
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Joined: Apr 6, 09  Pictures: 1 ♂ 		Edited by: gumishu  Mar 12, 12, 08:32    #176
JonnyM:
The origin of a word odd irrelevant. The use of a word is all that matters.


the thing is it is a regular word for a black person of African origin (other black people like Australian aborigenes or Melanesians or even very dark south Indians have their own specific names and are not typically called 'Murzyni' though it was a bit different historically)

if someone wants to call a black person offensively in Polish they use words like 'czarnuch' (extremely offensive - surprisingly enough 'czernoch' is a regular word for black person in Czech language), 'bambus' (literally 'bamboo' but it originates from 'Murzynek Bambo' by Julian Tuwim) or 'asfalt' (literally tarmac)

other neutral words for black people have typically different meaning to murzyn: czarnoskóry means literally black-skinned (but remember that Murzyn has a meaning of African black) - so Australian aborigene is equally czarnoskóry, czarny - is a touch too close to czarnuch to be an innocent word; Afrykanin doesn't equal to murzyn as there are Arabic, Berberic, and Chamitic Africans who are not Murzyni (and there are also white Africans after all - biali Afrykanie)

rozumiemnic:
Any word is racist if it is used in an aggressive or derogatory way.


murzyn doesn't carry offensive load because it is a regular word for a black African person - it's like stating that Englishman or Pole is derogatory - if Polish person wants to be derogatory towards the English they say 'Angole' not 'Anglicy', likewise if English people want to use derogatory, dismissive term for Polish people they say 'Pollacks' instead of 'Poles'
Ralph  Mar 12, 12, 17:46    #177
JonnyM:
By the way, who are the 'PC brigade'?

Politically correct (PC) are those who seek to minimize social offense and are willing to sacrifice truth in the process, often ignoring or twisting unshakable facts, professing tolerance but themselves being extremely intolerant of anyone not sharing their views.

rozumiemnic:
oh I expect they are friends of the 'femi-fascists'

Some of them probably are, but gender is immaterial here.
Ralph  Mar 12, 12, 18:06    #178
delphiandomine:
That would by why your kin screams every time Poland is mentioned in any way other than sickly sweetness, right?

We are disscussing the meaning of a word here, not my kin. By the way, you are stereotyping a whole group [kin] and that's exactly what racists do: stereotype.
kubusiek  Mar 12, 12, 21:41    #179
JonnyM:
JonnyM Gold Member MEMBER Mar 10, 12, 17:15 Reply / Quote #171
Kubusiek:
In slang it also means backroom boy.

What do you think the rationale is for that?

I don't really know. It is a mystery... Maybe Poles see that way the contribution of the black people to the success of western countries?

Guys, whom certain people pay for writing for them things like PHD Dissertation, are called "murzyn".
Also, if you feel that you helped the company to success, then, instead of being rewarded, you are fired, sacked, whatever... For this situation, there is a old Polish saying, you usually bitterly say: "Murzyn has done his work, so you can get rid of him" (Murzyn zrobił swoje, można go usunąć)
So, by no means, the word can be considered derogatory.
JonnyMThreads: 16
Posts: 4,487
Joined: Mar 9, 11 ♂ 		 Mar 12, 12, 21:57    #180
That sounds pretty derogatory to me.

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