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Paddy, Jock and Taffy.

posts: 28

BorrkaThreads: 49 Posts: 770 Joined: Apr 25, 08 ♂	Nov 1, 10, 09:38 #1
Terms like Jock, Paddy or Taffy - any idea of their origin ? How far are they derogatory ? What would be Polish translation ? Paddy, if from Patrick, sounds like Polish Pepik (Joseph) for Czechs to me.

zetigrekThreads: 59 Posts: 2,709 Joined: May 20, 10 ♂	Edited by: zetigrek Nov 1, 10, 09:40 #2
Borrka: Paddy Patrick Borrka: Taffy Daffyv (David)

♂

Edited by: Moderator Nov 1, 10, 09:59 #3

Borrka:

Jock

I thought that jock means mięśniak

http://megaslownik.pl/slownik/angielsko_polski/134925,jock

Taffy.
Here you have wikipedia entry on that keyword.

Shocking nursery rhyme:

Taffy was a Welshman, Taffy was a thief;
Taffy came to my house and stole a piece of beef;
I went to Taffy's house, Taffy wasn't in;
I jumped upon his Sunday hat and poked it with a pin.

Were there really so much bad ethnic strains among UK nations?

TeffleThreads: 28 Posts: 2,105 Joined: Aug 26, 10 ♂	Nov 1, 10, 10:20 #4
Borrka: How far are they derogatory ? To a large extent. The standard English insult based on nationality. Taff is probably more common that Taffy though.

zetigrekThreads: 59 Posts: 2,709 Joined: May 20, 10 ♂	Nov 1, 10, 10:28 #5
Teffle: The standard English insult based on nationality. What about infamouse "Pollack" then?

TeffleThreads: 28 Posts: 2,105 Joined: Aug 26, 10 ♂	Edited by: Teffle Nov 1, 10, 10:29 #6
zetigrek: Pollack That too. When I said "English" above, I meant the nationality rather than the language on this occasion.

WroclawThreads: 77 Posts: 7,404 Joined: Apr 1, 06 ♂ [Moderator]	Nov 1, 10, 11:17 #7
Borrka: Terms like Jock, Paddy or Taffy - any idea of their origin ? taffy from the river taff jocks from scottish soldiers paddy from patrick

TeffleThreads: 28 Posts: 2,105 Joined: Aug 26, 10 ♂	Nov 1, 10, 13:01 #8
zetigrek: Were there really so much bad ethnic strains among UK nations? Well, at times, definitely: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meibion_Glynd%C5%B5r

Polonius3Threads: 1,005 Posts: 4,833 Joined: Apr 11, 08 ♂	Nov 1, 10, 13:04 #9
What's the derogotory term for the English? Australians call them poms and Americans -- limeys.

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Edited by: Teffle Nov 1, 10, 13:36 #10

The Irish and Scottish have sasanach/sassenach, or versions of them e.g. sassy.
They are not very common though - not in Ireland anyway.

In Ireland, the term Brits is usually derogatory - which confusingly, in practice really refers to the English rather than the Welsh or Scottish.

To further confuse matters, most English people would use the term Brit about themselves, no problem, and usually quite proudly e.g. "Well, we Brits ..." etc.

Polonius3Threads: 1,005 Posts: 4,833 Joined: Apr 11, 08 ♂	Nov 1, 10, 15:04 #11
Something like Polak - perfectly normal in Polish but deropgatory in English.

TeffleThreads: 28 Posts: 2,105 Joined: Aug 26, 10 ♂	Nov 1, 10, 15:16 #12
Polonius3: Something like Polak - perfectly normal in Polish but deropgatory in English. Kind of, yes.

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Nov 1, 10, 17:52 #13

Wroclaw:

jocks from scottish soldiers

I thought it was derived from the name 'John' or 'Jack'. can also be lenthened to "jockstrap" (but i wouldn't advise it!).

Irish also called "Micks". Scots occasionally called "Haggis" (again, not advisable within throwing distance of an irn-bru bottle).

Polonius3:

Australians call them poms and Americans -- limeys.

Allegedly "Poms" from the convicts wearing POHM (prisoners of her majesty) and "Limeys" from drinking lime juice to prevent scurvy (not sure about that one though).

In Ireland occasionally heard the term 'Tan' (from "Black and Tans", a paramilitary unit of the British security forces in 1920's).

How insulting these are pretty much depends on context and who's saying it. When I was in the army Scots, Welsh and Irish were called Jock, Taff and Paddy almost universally (even if the Irish guys were Ulstermen). I doubt I'd use them to anyone i didn't know, but often people take it in good humour (if it's meant that way).

♀

Nov 1, 10, 17:53 #14

zetigrek:

Taffy was a Welshman, Taffy was a thief;
Taffy came to my house and stole a piece of beef;
I went to Taffy's house, Taffy wasn't in;
I jumped upon his Sunday hat and poked it with a pin.

Were there really so much bad ethnic strains among UK nations?

No one use the term Taffy these days..and they certainly dont have kids singing rhyms like that either..

(it did make me lol though)

Teffle:

In Ireland, the term Brits is usually derogatory

That would be in the South then, because most Brits in the North are pretty happy to be called Brits..No?

Borrka:

Jock

Is a diminutive of John.

Borrka:

Paddy

Is a diminutive of Patrick (they also use Packi too)

Borrka:

Taffy

The term "Taffy" may be a merging of the common Welsh name "Dafydd" and the Welsh river "Taff" on which Cardiff is built, and seems to have been in use by the mid-eighteenth century.

Taffy was a Welshman, Taffy was a sham;
Taffy came to my house and stole a piece of lamb;
I went to Taffy's house, Taffy was away,
I stuffed his socks with sawdust and filled his shoes with clay.

Taffy was a Welshman, Taffy was a cheat,
Taffy came to my house, and stole a piece of meat;
I went to Taffy's house, Taffy was not there,
I hung his coat and trousers to roast before a fire

Taffy was born
On a Moon Shiny Night,
His head in the Pipkin,
His Heels upright.

I went to Taffy's house, Taffy was not in;
Taffy came to my house and stole a silver pin.
I went to Taffy's house, Taffy was in bed;
I took up a poker and threw it at his head.

(they even had alternative endings!)

I went to Taffy's house, Taffy was in bed,
I took the marrow bone and beat about his head

It would seem not a lot of people liked Taffy :(

dtaylor5632Threads: 49 Posts: 4,459 Joined: May 2, 09 ♂	Nov 1, 10, 17:56 #15
Polonius3: English Just English will do ;) Trevek: Haggis Never heard of that one before :/

WroclawThreads: 77 Posts: 7,404 Joined: Apr 1, 06 ♂ [Moderator]	Nov 1, 10, 17:57 #16
Trevek: I thought it was derived from the name 'John' or 'Jack'. so did i, but wiki or whatever told me different. as it happens, a number of my ''jock'' rellies were called john. i think i'll agree to your thought. the taff thing i was told by a welshman so i'll stick with that.

♂

Edited by: Teffle Nov 1, 10, 18:03 #17

Trevek:

Allegedly "Poms" from the convicts wearing POHM (prisoners of her majesty) and "Limeys" from drinking lime juice to prevent scurvy (not sure about that one though).

I heard that POMs was an abbreviated form of pomegranate - a (very) rough rhyming slang for immigrant (!)

Hadn't actually heard your version but to be honest it sounds much more likely.

The lime/limey reference is pretty widely accepted though I think.

Trevek:

In Ireland occasionally heard the term 'Tan' (from "Black and Tans", a paramilitary unit of the British security forces in 1920's).

Yeah, it's really not common though.

Amathyst:

That would be in the South then, because most Brits in the North are pretty happy to be called Brits..No?

Hmmm. Not sure. Technically, yes, the majority shouldn't have an issue with it but context is all. It's probably fighting talk in NI - regarded as confrontational or challenging.

dtaylor5632Threads: 49 Posts: 4,459 Joined: May 2, 09 ♂	Nov 1, 10, 18:06 #18
Teffle: The lime/limey reference is pretty widely accepted though I think. That one is true.

♀

Nov 1, 10, 18:14 #19

Teffle:

The lime/limey reference is pretty widely accepted though I think.

Its hardly a current insult..possibly many moons ago, although you do get the odd comedian on here using it...I wouldnt say its accepted / unaccepted, Id say we're indifferent, but I find it quite strange that people still use it..

Wroclaw:

so did i, but wiki or whatever told me different

I always thought Jock was like John / Jack..

WroclawThreads: 77 Posts: 7,404 Joined: Apr 1, 06 ♂ [Moderator]	Nov 1, 10, 18:21 #20
Amathyst: I always thought Jock was like John / Jack.. yep, i've gone back to that thought.

mafketisThreads: 17 Posts: 1,880 Joined: Mar 31, 08 ♂	Nov 1, 10, 18:23 #21
Amathyst: It would seem not a lot of people liked Taffy :( No wonder, Taffy's a real bastаrd.... (and he never gave back those CDs he 'borrowed' either).

dtaylor5632Threads: 49 Posts: 4,459 Joined: May 2, 09 ♂	Nov 1, 10, 18:27 #22
Jock comes from the 9th Division. But it's also just slang for John, Jack, Ian ect. Meaning normal man.

TeffleThreads: 28 Posts: 2,105 Joined: Aug 26, 10 ♂	Edited by: Teffle Nov 1, 10, 18:31 #23
Amathyst: I wouldnt say its accepted / unaccepted, I meant that the the origin of the word, as posted by Trevek, was widely accepted.

WroclawThreads: 77 Posts: 7,404 Joined: Apr 1, 06 ♂ [Moderator]	Nov 1, 10, 18:37 #24
dtaylor5632: Jock comes from the 9th Division. But it's also just slang for John, Jack, Ian ect. Meaning normal man. so i was right then wrong then right. i give up.

warszawskiThreads: 60 Posts: 2,386 Joined: May 21, 10 ♂	Edited by: warszawski Nov 2, 10, 01:26 #25
Trevek: Allegedly "Poms" from the convicts wearing POHM (prisoners of her majesty) Which was later reversed to POME by the Australians ( Prisoner of Mother England ) Trevek: Irish also called "Micks" Some beliefs are that "mick" comes from the common "Mc" in many Irish names.

TeffleThreads: 28 Posts: 2,105 Joined: Aug 26, 10 ♂	Nov 2, 10, 09:25 #26
warszawski: Some beliefs are that "mick" comes from the common "Mc" in many Irish names. Maybe - I'd say it's more likely simply that Michael/Mick is a common name in Ireland (ar at least was)

szkotja2007Threads: 38 Posts: 2,544 Joined: Dec 29, 06 ♂	Nov 2, 10, 21:06 #27
Trevek: ow insulting these are pretty much depends on context and who's saying it I would go along with that, outside of the army "Jock" isn't widely used, unless the guy is called Jock. Polonius3: What's the derogotory term for the English? Alka Seltzers, FEBs, Sassenachs etc etc

fluteboyThreads: - Posts: 4 Joined: Nov 19, 10 ♂	Nov 19, 10, 20:02 #28
The French may refer to us Brits as Rosbifs or Rosbeefs. One explanation of this term is that it originally referred to English style of cooking roast beef, and especially to the song The Roast Beef of Old England. During the Hundred Years War, the French took to calling the English Les Goddams because of their frequent use of expletives!

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