Poland in different languages?

♂

Edited by: mafketis Mar 4, 11, 12:25 #61

NomadatNet:

Google couldn't translate it. Without knowing Hungarian, I tried.

ellengyeltelenítettétek

quick and dirty analysis

el = from, out of, away

lengyel - Poland, Pole, Polish

telen - no, without

ít - causitive (makes sth be a certain way or makes someone do something)

ett - past tense

étek - you (plural) (it might be possible to separate out -é- as a separate morpheme, but I wouldn't)

NomadatNet:

Not sure what you meant by languages aren't agglutinative.

This just means that no human language uses only one kind of structure. "agglutinative language" is an abbreviation for "a language that uses agglutinative structures more than most languages do". But English and Polish also have some agglutinative kinds of structures and there are inflectional and isolating bits of Turkish as well.

gumishuThreads: 17 Posts: 3,943 Joined: Apr 6, 09 ♂	Edited by: gumishu Mar 5, 11, 01:34 #62
Can anyone here explain to me the origins (or the original meaning) of the name Boszermeny (or was it Boszormeny?) (i don't have those accented umlauts of Hungarian script) it is definitely the source of an old Polish word bisurman (a muslim - still it was pretty derogatory in Polish language) - later secondary meanings developed for bisurman (like a brat)

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Mar 5, 11, 18:35 #63

gumishu:

Can anyone here explain to me the origins (or the original meaning) of the name Boszermeny (or was it Boszormeny?) (i don't have those accented umlauts of Hungarian script)

it is definitely the source of an old Polish word bisurman (a muslim - still it was pretty derogatory in Polish language) - later secondary meanings developed for bisurman (like a brat)

Yes, you are totally right. Böszörmény meant muslim, ismaelita.

♂

Edited by: gumishu Mar 6, 11, 19:53 #64

Leonis:

Yes, you are totally right. Böszörmény meant muslim, ismaelita.

but did it have any different meaning in Hungarian before it started being applied to muslims or was it a loanword (with sound changes probably) from some other language - from what i have learned from the Boszormeny wikipedia entry it was used long before Hungarians met with Oguz Turks of Turkey

I know this is may be a question without an answer in our present knowledge

srytytyty	Mar 7, 11, 09:45 #65
list of names for Poland: pl.wiktionary.org/wiki/Polska

magdi78Threads: - Posts: 1 Joined: Feb 12, 11 ♂	Mar 7, 11, 21:15 #66
بولندا polanda ( po arabsku ) :)

mafketisThreads: 17 Posts: 1,880 Joined: Mar 31, 08 ♂	Mar 7, 11, 21:54 #67
magdi78: ولندا polanda ( po arabsku ) :) Shouldn't tht be Bulanda ?

jonniThreads: 26 Posts: 4,181 Joined: Nov 27, 07 ♂	Mar 7, 11, 22:02 #68
ፖላንድ in Amharic.

NomadatNetThreads: 6 Posts: 1,492 Joined: Mar 28, 09 ♂	Mar 7, 11, 22:16 #69
gumishu: from what i have learned from the Boszormeny wikipedia entry it was used long before Hungarians met with Oguz Turks of Turkey Probably, Hungary Christian Kingdom preferred to call them Boszormeny, close to Besermyan, a Finno Ugric group when they try to convert/integrate those warriors they hired as employee to Christianity.

♂

Mar 8, 11, 03:27 #70

NomadatNet:

Probably, Hungary Christian Kingdom preferred to call them Boszormeny, close to Besermyan, a Finno Ugric group when they try to convert/integrate those warriors they hired as employee to Christianity.

so Besermyans were some Finno Ugric muslim group/tribe ???

well - actually wikipedia states that some muslims were part of the Magyar confederation when they moved from Volga basin across the Ukrainian steppes to middle Europe - they could have been some division of Volga Bulghars

♂

Apr 26, 11, 21:54 #71

This is an interesting thread. However, I beleive I can bring this discussion to an informed conclusion.

The term "besermyans" is probably a corruption of the Hungarian word "Besenyo" which means Pechenegs or in Russian/Polish PATZINAKS.

These people were not Finno -Ugric but were Kipchak Turkic speakers who lived to the east of the Magyars (Hungarians) before the Hungarians entered the Danubian Plain which eventually became Hungary. These Pechenegs were a constant source of conflict with the Hungarians and their raid and depredations led the Magyars to continue to move westward in the 8-10th century. They settled to the east of the Magyars and maintained a tribal confedracy. At times their soldiers served as mercenaries for Kiev, the Byzantine empire, the Bulgarian state and at times warred against each of these powers. Their power, which was formidable was broken decisively by the Byzantines, Cumans and Magyars at the battle of Levounion (?) sometimes in the 10 th century. They suffered a series of military reversals and were finally literally exterminated as a people about 75 years later again by the Byzantines, Cumans and Hungarians. At about the time of their initial decline some Pechengs adopted Islam and tried to force that faith on the pagan Pechenegs, which lead to a civil war and further weakened them.
At the very last, large numbers of Pecheneg refugees were allowed to serve as border guards for the nascent Hungarian kingdom and they were assimilated into the Hungarian people. Today there are still Turkic place names in Hungary and there are many people with the last name Besenye denoting a Pecheneg antecedent.

♂

Edited by: rock Apr 28, 11, 00:10 #72

Magyar one:

This is an interesting thread. However, I beleive I can bring this discussion to an informed conclusion.

The term "besermyans" is probably a corruption of the Hungarian word "Besenyo" which means Pechenegs or in Russian/Polish PATZINAKS.

I don't know if besermyans means Pechenegs, but you are right pechenegs and cumans are Turkic tribes.

Also, we Turks think that Turks and Magyars may not be brothers but they are cousins for sure. Not only our ancestors Huns, Avars lived in that lands as well as Cumans and Pecenegs but also Turks and Magyars lived together and mixed in today's Russian steps. No need to mention 150 years of Ottoman rule in Hungary.

szveronikaThreads: 3 Posts: 9 Joined: Apr 25, 11 ♀	May 16, 11, 15:59 #73
I'm happy to see some people from Hungary! I'm Hungarian too and learning Polish. Cześć everyone :)

gumishuThreads: 17 Posts: 3,943 Joined: Apr 6, 09 ♂	May 16, 11, 16:26 #74
szveronika cześć Veronika :)

Zman	May 16, 11, 17:29 #75
Hungarians in PL? What a rarity!!! You are MOST welcome to PL honey! because we love HU folk here!

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