Poles - don't fall into the French/Spanish trap re pronunciation/accent!

nikt	Nov 23, 10, 14:29 #31
Teffle: shwa I should write "schwa", that is "ə" in IPA signs

nikt

Nov 23, 10, 14:35 #32

In English, schwa is the most common vowel sound. It is a reduced vowel in many unstressed syllables, especially if syllabic consonants are not used:

* like the 'a' in about [əˈbaʊt]
* like the 'e' in taken [ˈteɪkən]
* like the 'i' in pencil [ˈpɛnsəl]
* like the 'o' in eloquent [ˈɛləkwənt]
* like the 'u' in supply [səˈplaɪ]
* like the 'y' in sibyl [ˈsɪbəl]

So I don't get idea why the hell they named a sound which is not really one sound but it can sound like every other vowel!

♂

Edited by: Teffle Nov 23, 10, 14:36 #33

nikt:

taken [teɪkən] I hear tejkEn (ɛ)

Ah yes. Although it looks like EN it is pronounced like IN

nikt:

emotion [ɪ'məʊʃən] I hear imouszYn (ɨ) or imouszOn (o)

Likewise with the first one. Depends on regional accent sometimes and also, words can often be overpronounced.

I think maybe the same happens with Pięć.

(Here we go again with Polish/English phonetics, but) it should be, as far as I know, pyench but a Pole told me that some Poles, trying to appear sophisticated may overpronounce as pyounch.

nikt:

So I don't get idea why the hell they named a sound which is not really one sound but it can sound like every other vowel!

I know what you mean. English is wildly inconsistent re pronunciation. And again, a huge variety of regional accents doesn't help.

Take, in the SE of England can be pronounced TYKE

In the NW, as TEK in the NE as TEA-AK or even TAK.

: )

nikt

Nov 23, 10, 14:45 #34

Teffle:

(Here we go again with Polish/English phonetics, but) it should be, as far as I know, pyench but a Pole told me that some Poles, trying to appear sophisticated may overpronounce as pyounch.

I pronounce it piĘć and I don'r feel that's sophisticated way of pronouncing it... just proper. The pieńć is just a sloppy way of pronouncing it.

The same thing goes with other numbers:

sześćset (600) many Poles pronounce like: sześ-set or even szejset (in english it would sound like sheay-set). It is just sloppiness

The same thing with sześćdziesiąt (60). Szejdziesiąt - many kids say (and even write!) like this

TeffleThreads: 28 Posts: 2,105 Joined: Aug 26, 10 ♂	Edited by: Teffle Nov 23, 10, 14:51 #35
nikt: I pronounce it piĘć and I don'r feel that's sophisticated way of pronouncing it... just proper. The pieńć is just a sloppy way of pronouncing it Hmmm. Interesting! Based on what my friend said, I wonder how many poles don't pronounce it properly then? Surprised, as she is educated, intelligent.

nikt	Nov 23, 10, 14:54 #36
more about Ę - the whole thing is about saying it without exaggerting this sound. So it should be really slightly nasal because if you pronounce it like in French it will sound unnatural, ridiculuos and funny. The same problem is with Ę at the ends of words. Some can say DziękujĘ without exaggerating this sound but most say just simple E at the end.

TeffleThreads: 28 Posts: 2,105 Joined: Aug 26, 10 ♂	Edited by: Teffle Nov 23, 10, 14:57 #37
nikt: DziękujĘ I say the last syllable of this as pretty much like "yeah" Is this silly? Basically, my version sounds like (again, phonetics po angielsku) JENK OO YEAH

nikt

Nov 23, 10, 14:58 #38

Teffle:

Based on what my friend said, I wonder how many poles don't pronounce it properly then?

MOST :)
It doesn't mean that someone is uneducated. Its more like the language starts to degradate on mass scale.
I even often think about what is the correct way of pronouncing e in the ends. Ordinary people say e but I've noriced that sctors and radio speakers say the slight ę

Even Ivona says dziękujE and pieńć;)

www . ivona . com / index . php#

nikt	Nov 23, 10, 15:02 #39
Teffle: I say the last syllable of this as pretty much like "yeah" Is this silly? Basically, my version sounds like (again, phonetics po angielsku) JENK OO YEAH haha. No it's not yeah. I've already noticed that Brits say dziękujaaa. It's really ɛ and yours sounds more like æ I guess

♂

Nov 23, 10, 15:04 #40

nikt:

sześćset (600) many Poles pronounce like: sześ-set or even szejset (in english it would sound like sheay-set). It is just sloppiness

No, it is not. Pronouncing it sześć-set would sound artificial and over-correct in normal speech. But it would be OK if you delivered a rather formal or ceremonious speech. The same story goes, for example, with "jabłko" which you will usually pronounce "japko" rather than the way it is actually written.

TeffleThreads: 28 Posts: 2,105 Joined: Aug 26, 10 ♂	Edited by: Teffle Nov 23, 10, 15:04 #41
OK, so the JENKOO is alright? So maybe yeh (short) as opposed to yeah for the ending ? ! And I think typically the OO should be stressed rather then the end (which I have developed a habit of doing) ? nikt: dziękujaaa I'm not that bad. That sounds mental : )

nikt

Nov 23, 10, 15:13 #42

Ziemowit:

No, it is not. Pronouncing it sześć-set

ok between sześćset and sześ-set there is little almost unhearable difference. But szejset it's obvious sloppiness.

About ę

Literę ę na końcu wyrazu przed pauzą wymawia się zazwyczaj bez rezonansu nosowego, a więc tak jak ustną samogłoskę e. W starannej wymowie można lekko zaznaczyć nosowość, ale przesada w tej mierze jest gorsza od niedbałości, zwłaszcza gdy kilka kolejnych wyrazów kończy się literą ę.
— Mirosław Bańko

source:
poradnia . pwn . pl / lista.php?kat=2&szukaj=samog%B3osk%EA

It's explained better and by specialist (please someone tranclate it). I think that the same rule is with pięć and pieńć.

nikt	Nov 23, 10, 15:18 #43
Teffle: OK, so the JENKOO is alright? So maybe yeh (short) as opposed to yeah for the ending ? ! I believe it's alright. The ending is like in the word "bed". Just simple E sound :)

♂

Nov 29, 10, 13:07 #44

Spiking off akSONTS zis reminds me off en anecDOT. A British couple were on the Eiffel Tower sightseeing when they saw a Frenchman attempting to jump off. They restrained him and asked why he wanted to do away with himself. His reply: 'You see zis taWER? I bilt zis taWER. But do zey col me "Pierre ze taWER bilder?" - NON! You see zat breezh (should be pronounced with a uvular r)? I bilt zat breezh. But do zey col me "Pierre ze breezh bilder?" - NON! But f--- just one peeg...!

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