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"Poles" or "Polish people" - which is better to use?

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posts: 99

plk123Threads: 16 Posts: 4307 Joined: Aug 29, 07 Gender: Male	Aug 30, 07, 11:24 #41
Quoting: Firestorm If people from Poland are called "Poles," why aren't people from Holland called "Holes"? beacause they are actually netherlanders.

plk123Threads: 16 Posts: 4307 Joined: Aug 29, 07 Gender: Male	Aug 30, 07, 11:25 #42
Quoting: Matyjasz “Pollock” that also = pollack and there are a few other veriosn too. btw. pollock is also kind of a fish.

plk123Threads: 16 Posts: 4307 Joined: Aug 29, 07 Gender: Male	Aug 30, 07, 11:27 #43
Quoting: Lady in red Show me an english dictionary that states that then !! try google.

MichalThreads: - Posts: 2455 Joined: Feb 27, 07 Gender: Male	Aug 30, 07, 11:59 #44
Quoting: plk123 beacause they are actually netherlanders. Ecactlly, I have already ponted out somewhere that Holland technically only describes two provinces in the centre of the Netherlands. Wij zein nederlanders omdat we in de Nederlands woonen!

ellaThreads: - Posts: 57 Joined: Mar 10, 07 Gender: Female	Edited by: ella Aug 31, 07, 09:37 #45
Quoting: Michal Most people know them as 'the Poles'. Normally/officially : A person from Poland : I am from Poland = jestem z Polski Nationality (narodowosc).... Polish/ rarely Pole = Polak or: jestem Polakiem Language (jezyk)....Polish = Polski I wonder what are you doing here Michal anyway, are you trying to translate "their" (our Polish) language while having fun to play with the words or ...? Why don't you try to help your nationality/the Russians? Greetings

m.pollock	Dec 16, 07, 01:00 #46
I'm an American that's 25% Polish, so maybe i'm not much help in saying whether saying Poles or Polish People is more correct, personally it doesn't bother me with either one, but when I hear "Pollock" thrown around, it offends me when it's used offensively or as a "joke" mainly because of how they mean it and also because it's my last name.

PuzzlerThreads: 11 Posts: 1627 Joined: Mar 21, 07 Gender: Male	Edited by: Administrator Dec 16, 07, 03:34 #47
Quoting: Michal One minute they hate the Germans and then want to profit from such sales. - The pig calling itself 'Muckal' hates the Polish people, but sticks to this forum like pig crap, and even plays an expert on things Polish such as Polish language. Needless to say, the pig is totally ignorant about those things. What a mentally confused pig. Why doesn't the great heaven bless the pig with a cancer and finish it off quickly? :)

z_dariusThreads: 17 Posts: 4035 Joined: Oct 18, 07 Gender: Male	Edited by: z_darius Dec 16, 07, 05:30 #48
Quoting: Matyjasz I heard that in the USA the word “Pollock” is considered to be a derogatory word It may be but I'm not sure to whom. Pollock (and pollack) is a fish. Damn fools are too stupid to even offend properly :)

PolsonThreads: 12 Posts: 2484 Joined: May 9, 07 Gender: Male	Dec 16, 07, 08:27 #49
Quoting: z_darius pollack Polak means Polish man in Polish...so it's half "bad"... ;) Poles or Polish people...Poles is shorter but can be misunderstand ('pole'...)... :)

omniba	Dec 16, 07, 12:12 #50
Quoting: Lady in red I was educated at Polish school that using the word "Poles' was offensive “I’m a Pole”, “I’m an Italian”, “I’m an Englishman” etc. etc. or “I’m Polish”, “I’m Italian”, “I’m English” - these are just definitions of nationality. Even thinking that people could take offence for something similar is a bit worrying while looking for offence everywhere is paranoid and denotes an inferiority complex. Whoever taught Polish children that being called Poles was offensive had a very limited knowledge of the English language and was “a f o o l” or "f o o l i s h"

SeanusThreads: 17 Posts: 17912 Joined: Dec 25, 07 Gender: Male	Dec 26, 07, 15:29 #51
When u call Poles 'Polaks', it can be offensive or have a negative connotation. Much like being Caucasian and saying 'niggas'. African-Americans can say 'niggas' amongst themselves, much in the same way as a Pole could say 'jestem polakiem' and it would be acceptable. It's like saying dickhead or fuck. What one is worse? Well, it depends on the intonation and intention of the speaker. Most would say fuck but it could be used to express frustration whereas dickhead could be used as an insult towards another or others. It just depends on ur audience!!

Lady in red	Dec 26, 07, 16:22 #52
Omniba ! You highlight text from a post I made in August, which was in response to previous ongoing discussion. However, as you have seen fit to quote me and make comments I shall reply to your post accordingly. omniba wrote: Whoever taught Polish children that being called Poles was offensive had a very limited knowledge of the English language and was ?a f o o l? or "f o o l i s h" RUBBISH to your comments. I disagree. omniba wrote: Even thinking that people could take offence for something similar is a bit worrying while looking for offence everywhere is paranoid and denotes an inferiority complex. RUBBISH !

SeanusThreads: 17 Posts: 17912 Joined: Dec 25, 07 Gender: Male	Dec 26, 07, 16:31 #53
What's the best way to find the answer, test it out!!

omniba	Dec 28, 07, 11:01 #54
Seanus wrote: 'jestem polakiem' There is no other way of saying "I am Polish" in Polish (unless of course one is a female) - it's not quite like saying "niggas" or "niggers" if one is Afro-American. Lady in red wrote: RUBBISH to your comments. I disagree. Well, you're quite free to say and think anything you like - nonetheless being called "a Pole" is simply not an insult. Seanus wrote: it depends on the intonation Exactly! But in this case - if the intonation is aggressive (for example, as when words are written in capital letters, where the aggression is implied) even "Polish" could become an insult.

SeanusThreads: 17 Posts: 17912 Joined: Dec 25, 07 Gender: Male	Dec 28, 07, 12:06 #55
So could Scottish or any other country you choose to nominate.

omniba	Dec 28, 07, 12:09 #56
Precisely!

Express12Threads: - Posts: 5 Joined: Dec 26, 07 Gender: Male	Edited by: Express12 Dec 30, 07, 19:07 #57
Firestorm wrote: why aren't people from Holland called "Holes Because Holland is not a name of a country, but just a name of two of our twelve provinces; i.e. the province of Noord Holland = Norht Holland, and Zuid Holland = South Holland; the entire nation is The Netherlands. So, we call ourselves ( Nederlander ) and we call our language ( Nederlands ). English people call us ( Dutch ) and they also call our language ( Dutch ). :-)

uncuncunc	May 31, 08, 21:59 #58
I'll take Pole, Polish person, and Polak, the real word for one of our kind. But if Polak is used, it MUST be spelled correctly. If I ever see "Polack" (actually pronounced Po-latsk) or "Pollock" (A type of fish) again, I will kick something!

z_dariusThreads: 17 Posts: 4035 Joined: Oct 18, 07 Gender: Male	May 31, 08, 22:26 #59
Firestorm: If people from Poland are called "Poles," why aren't people from Holland called "Holes"? That one's easy. PoLand HoLLand

southernThreads: 63 Posts: 6010 Joined: May 17, 07 Gender: Male	Jun 1, 08, 04:59 #60
Polaci is good.And polky for women.

JustysiaSThreads: 10 Posts: 2494 Joined: Oct 14, 07 Gender: Female GOLD MEMBER	Jun 1, 08, 07:01 #61
southern: Polaci is good.And polky for women. Polacy, Polki for women

PuzzyThreads: 1 Posts: 181 Joined: May 1, 08 Gender: Male	Edited by: Puzzy Jun 1, 08, 07:24 #62
Frank: which is frowned on by Polish people? - What specific word is 'frowned on' by Poles? Shakespeare refers (in a positive manner) to the Poles as 'Polacks,' but in America the word has been used bizarrely as a derogatory term. We should repossess the name, because its pronunciation is practically identical as the Polish pronunciation of the word 'Polak' - our term for a Polish man. (The term for a Polish woman is 'Polka.') Both 'Pole' and 'Polish' can evoke both negative and positive associations in English (six-foot pole, earth poles; shoe polish, polish = refinement).

MrBubblesThreads: 11 Posts: 737 Joined: Nov 13, 07 Gender: Male	Jun 1, 08, 09:36 #63
Germanic Slavs?

takeitasitcomes	Aug 4, 08, 20:05 #64
I'm Polish. I didn't realize anyone cared what to call us. I'm cool with Pole, Polak, Polish person... The white girl over there from some slavic country in europe... People are too damned up tight. Get over it. Us Polish have taken it from just about oh...everyone including Prussia which doesn't even exist anymore. I didn't realize I should care that people make dumb Polish jokes, call Polaks weird things, and I really don't care that Im blond too due to being Polish and that there are jokes about that.

osiolThreads: 71 Posts: 5029 Joined: Jul 25, 07 Gender: Male	Edited by: osiol Aug 4, 08, 20:18 #65
I've never heard anyone say Polonian. Any Polanders here? takeitasitcomes: I'm cool with Pole, Polak, Polish person I would have thought you might not like to be a Polak (masculine) and might prefer to be a Polka (feminine). You did say you're a girl, right?

EurolaThreads: 5 Posts: 1873 Joined: Dec 2, 06 Gender: Female	Aug 4, 08, 20:19 #66
Good for you. I never paid attention to any of that either. If I detected anything with an undertone to it, I reacted. I can be snippy too. Usually, the person would become embarrassed and apologetic. Good enough for me and a lesson for the offender. Some get way toooooo sensitive for no reason! :)

Cardno85Threads: 29 Posts: 765 Joined: Jul 11, 08 Gender: Male	Aug 10, 08, 16:20 #67
Kubelek: Scottish / Scotsman Actually we just get "Scot" most of the time. The English call us Jock a lot which annoys the tits off us.

kubakhan	Sep 4, 08, 02:49 #68
Most dictionaries I've come across define 'Polak' as a racial slur/derogatory title for a person of Polish descent. From my own experience it can certainly be used that way. I think it is comparable to 'nigga' and I wouldn't want someone non-Polish using it unless they know that I'm cool with them. Having said that, of course it's ok for other Polish people to use it among themselves. 'Pole' just sounds stupid to me. I also identify as a Slav. So I say I'm a Slav or a Polish person.

Del boyThreads: 22 Posts: 340 Joined: Jun 29, 07 Gender: Male	Edited by: Del boy Sep 4, 08, 06:15 #69
I am reading a book published in 1948, written in English by Stanislaw Mikolajczyk, Prime Minister of the Polish goverment in exile during World War II( second important persona after Sikorski ). Every time when he did mention about Polish people he was using the term "Poles". So when Polish exile elite had to use that term it looks like a proper one

kubakhan	Sep 5, 08, 23:22 #70
I don't think the term 'Pole' is derogatory; just stupid sounding. 'Polak' can be used in a derogatory way when used by anyone non-Polish.

SomerledThreads: 6 Posts: 112 Joined: May 31, 07 Gender: Male	Edited by: Somerled Sep 6, 08, 03:33 #71
I use Pole because saying "polish people" is too long. Its like calling Blacks in the states "African Americans". I wouldn't expect someone to call me a Scottish person or an American when they can just say Yank or Mick (or sh*thead). That being said, I was told that "pollack" just means male Pole and I use it extensively. Is someone playing a mean joke on me?

HelenaWojtczakThreads: 31 Posts: 190 Joined: Aug 5, 08 Gender: Female	Sep 7, 08, 07:21 #72
Funny to object to English speaking people using the term Pollack, when the Polish people use the word "polak" !

BubbaWooThreads: 45 Posts: 4473 Joined: Sep 26, 06 Gender: Male	Sep 7, 08, 07:44 #73
youre quite right helena but for some reason im not suprised ;)

SeanusThreads: 17 Posts: 17912 Joined: Dec 25, 07 Gender: Male	Sep 7, 08, 11:02 #74
The usual situation, it's OK for them to use it but not outsiders. I guess certain outsiders gave it a negative connotation.

kubakhan	Sep 8, 08, 13:33 #75
Although there are some Polish people who do not find it offensive when non-Poles use the term 'Polak,' (e.g. HelenaWojtczak) I imagine that they have not experienced that unhappy occasion of being discriminated against due to their cultural background. How lucky you must be to either not have experienced an anti-Slavic prejudice that is really prevalent in the West (it was acknowledged in popular culture as far back as 1951 in a Streetcar Named Desire), or to just manage to just be oblivious to it. I wish I could pretend that the term Polak does not conjure up 'dumb polak' joke references and other negative stereotypes. If you, however, consult most dictionaries you will find that there is an acknowledgment and explicit mention of the derogatory meanings associated with the term. According to dictionary.com: Po·lack Audio Help /ˈpoʊlɑk, -læk/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[poh-lahk, -lak] –noun Slang: Disparaging and Offensive. a Pole or person of Polish descent.

Rab35	Sep 15, 08, 14:46 #76
Cardno85: Actually we just get "Scot" most of the time. The English call us Jock a lot which annoys the tits off us. Its more annoying when they call us "sweatys", makes me want to stick the heid on the morris dancing f***ies!!!

Cardno85Threads: 29 Posts: 765 Joined: Jul 11, 08 Gender: Male	Sep 16, 08, 12:37 #77
I have never been called a sweatz (mz kezboard hates me since i changed the lazout). Jock is bloodz annozing though.

tygrysThreads: - Posts: 74 Joined: Dec 28, 07 Gender: Male	Sep 16, 08, 12:51 #78
Cardno85: (mz kezboard hates me since i changed the lazout). click on shift and alt to get back typing the y when u need to

Cardno85Threads: 29 Posts: 765 Joined: Jul 11, 08 Gender: Male	Sep 16, 08, 13:09 #79
marvellous, thanks very much :)

Tobiasz	Oct 3, 08, 03:05 #80
I'm really surprised how strongly some people feel about the word Pole. As has been pointed out, it is a perfectly legitimate way of referring to a Polish person and it corresponds to words like Dane, Swede, Fleming, Briton, Spaniard etc. in that it is a noun, which Polish is not. You can use the Polish as a collective term, but you cannot use it in the singular form (*a Polish). And circumscribing a Pole as a Polish person is, if done consistently, pretty awkward. Also, at least in the UK it doesn't carry any connotations that Polish would not carry. It is used, and has been used, as a standard term in the British media. Use it and be proud of it. As for Polak, Polack, Pollock etc., the ones ending in -ck are obviously anglicized spellings, which again is legitimate. Polish is polaco in Spanish and there the c has the k sound too.

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