Do Poles prefer US or UK ENglish?

♀

Edited by: aphrodisiac Aug 18, 10, 03:20 #121

xzqbq7:

I think Poles are confused and English people in Poland only aggravate this confusion. There is only one English that Poles (and almost everybody else in the world) are/should be interested in and it is International English called American English or just English. There is no need at all to waste time for English accent. Unfortunately Poles even as they learn and use English are led to believe by some English folks that there are two versions of this language (of course there are almost countess accents) and they need to learn classic/proper/original (pick your word) version. So they opt for this classic but only in their perception. Anywhere and everywhere in the world including England people use International English and that's all they need. Anyway the 'classic' English is only spoken by queen, everybody else has their own heavy accent and really there is no need to bother with that.

true to the core:), not to mention the fact that other then Polish English learners use International English as well and a lot of business in conducted in that language, so I see little use for British, especially for somebody who want to communicate without feeling limited to British English. I have spoken to Aussies, South Africans, Brits, Irish and Scots and I have never had a problem with understanding them after learning to tune into their accents, which took me maybe half an hour.

I think that introducing students to many accents is a good idea, since they need to train their ear to them, but they don't have to speak with those accents.

mafketisThreads: 17 Posts: 1,880 Joined: Mar 31, 08 ♂	Aug 18, 10, 08:47 #122
American English =/= "International English" "International English" (to the extent that it exists) is not a full language as it lacks the cultural references and emotional nuances that are typical of national varieties.

plk123Threads: 30 Posts: 6,412 Joined: Aug 29, 07 ♂	Aug 18, 10, 09:16 #123
"international" english is what you want it to be or make it to be. there are only small nuances between all the different versions of english.. really not a big deal at all/

♂

Aug 18, 10, 09:26 #124

PolAmero:

this thread sounds like brits are trying to justify their ESL jobs and prevent others from joining in.

The British Council does that already; FCE and CAE-based coursebooks are the norm in private language schools and even state high schools all across the country. Oxford, Cambridge, Longman and Express Publishing do a roaring trade in English language materials here, and they are British English with a token chapter on Americanisms (subway, sidewalk, color/flavor) for the business traveller.

xzqbq7:

There is only one English that Poles (and almost everybody else in the world) are/should be interested in and it is International English called American English or just English.

The form of English spoken by most Americans is not International English at all. I've had to stifle rage, then alarm, then hilarity watching an American try and teach a class on Perfect Tenses to Poles who handed him his own arse on a plate. Leaving aside specific vocabulary differences, there are entire types of structure which British English has as a norm, and American sees as aloof, yet when it comes to International Business and Finance, or Journalism, or Academic Writing, it's those British structures which are the norm.

I'm more a descriptivist than a prescriptivist, but the "me and my friend went..." and "me too..." that the Americans have brought in will do Poles no favours if they use them in business communications; and they're not just learning English for fun, like they are Spanish.

That aside, Poles have mastered that American "r" that sounds like a trained seal clapping. ARN ARN ARN!

plk123Threads: 30 Posts: 6,412 Joined: Aug 29, 07 ♂	Aug 18, 10, 09:47 #125
Richfilth: British structures which are the norm. those structures exist in "american" english too..

♂

Aug 18, 10, 10:25 #126

I learned British English in school, but speak American English - a lot of native English speaking friends of mine all say that I speak with an American accent. I prefer it anyway because it's easier English and it just sounds nicer with cooler expressions. Proper British English has always a bit of "stiffness" over it. And Scottish English I at times truly have trouble understanding :) Welsh and Australian English sound a bit the same to me, albeit that the Australian accent sometimes tends to sound like the accent in (London-) Derry in Northern Ireland, which is about the most hideous English accent I have heard so far. Oirish English is distinctly different from British English, even when you have a perfect English speaking Irishman.
I especially like the accent they have in the Southern States of the US. "Y'all come back now ye hear?"

>^..^<

M-G (tiens)

♂

Aug 18, 10, 11:01 #127

MareGaea wrote:

I prefer it anyway because it's easier English and it just sounds nicer with cooler expressions.

YEAH! ;)

Maregaea wrote:

And Scottish English I at times truly have trouble understanding :)

you're not alone.

MareGaea wrote:

Proper British English has always a bit of "stiffness" over it.

agreed. most americans feel the same way. generally we think it's just plastic sounding, stiff, arrogant at times, but i still can really appreciate many things about British English. some of the expressions crack me up and some of them are just straight up fruity sounding.

♂

Aug 18, 10, 11:18 #128

What is British English anyway? There are so many different English accents in such a small area that to me it doesn't really matter anymore. Is it the way the queen speaks? Because I don't know anyone (Personally), apart from the royal family and politicians who speak like that, and that accent is awful.

I'm guessing it wont be long before International English becomes LOLZspeak "I can has cheeze burger" :P. I frequently seen non-native English people write like this now. It won't be long before people actually speak like that too.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Aug 18, 10, 11:21 #129
There is such a thing as British English but not THE British accent as there are so many. As I've said before, some Poles prefer AmE and others prefer BrE.

tonywobThreads: 7 Posts: 51 Joined: Jun 14, 09 ♂	Aug 18, 10, 11:24 #130
Seanus: There is such a thing as British English but not THE British accent as there are so many. As I've said before, some Poles prefer AmE and others prefer BrE. I'm curious, when you teach English, do your students pick up your accent? (That is, assuming you have one ;-))

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Aug 18, 10, 11:26 #131
Not really, no. Again, it has to do with perceptions and they perceive Scottish accents to be strong. Mine really isn't unless I consciously trill my r's. I have quite a neutral accent and some Scots don't think I'm Scottish.

♂ [Suspended]

Aug 18, 10, 12:53 #132

FUZZYWICKETS:

you're not alone.

Wrong for the third time.

Clearly your exposure to Scottish Standard English is incredibly limited - you've never been there, and I doubt you know much more than the stereotypical Groundskeeper Willie accent.

Seanus:

Not really, no. Again, it has to do with perceptions and they perceive Scottish accents to be strong. Mine really isn't unless I consciously trill my r's. I have quite a neutral accent and some Scots don't think I'm Scottish.

Mile End English, I guess? ;)

♂

Edited by: FUZZYWICKETS Aug 18, 10, 13:22 #133

Delphiandomine wrote:

you've never been there, and I doubt you know much more than the stereotypical Groundskeeper Willie accent.

funny, i keep saying the EXACT same thing to you often times when you comment about america. you've never been there, and i doubt you know much more than the stereotypical yada yada yada. see, even YOU agree that being there gives you grounds to comment.

i'm commenting about the scottish language OUTSIDE the country and it's usefulness in the ESL world, namely in Poland, and since I live here and teach english here, i can actually comment on the subject.

Delphiandomine wrote:

Clearly your exposure to Scottish Standard English is incredibly limited

yep, just like everyone else's. 5.1 million people living in the far north of an island in the far north western part of Europe, you do the math.

ever seen a "Scottish English" school in Poland?

so since we're in the spirit of counting, YOU'RE wrong......uhmmm.....for the 2,302,938 time.

the more you write, the less i have to actually argue with you.

delphiandomineThreads: 42 Posts: 9,954 Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ [Suspended]	Aug 18, 10, 14:03 #134
FUZZYWICKETS: i'm commenting about the scottish language OUTSIDE the country and it's usefulness in the ESL world, namely in Poland, and since I live here and teach english here, i can actually comment on the subject. But you know nothing about it, therefore, you aren't qualified to talk about it.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Aug 19, 10, 22:19 #135
Why the focus on utility, FUZZY? It gives identity and that counts to many people. Virtually all speakers of it can speak English too so why not have an extra string in the bow. Americans just don't seem to appreciate how big the accent and dialect aspects are for such a small island. Delph and I could speak in Doric code and you wouldn't have a scooby.

♂

Aug 19, 10, 23:36 #136

seanus wrote:

Why the focus on utility, FUZZY?

go back and read my response to MareGaea's post and how Delph responded.

seanus wrote:

Americans just don't seem to appreciate how big the accent and dialect aspects are for such a small island.

that's a completely ignorant statement.

seanus wrote:

Delph and I could speak in Doric code and you wouldn't have a scooby.

and i could take you into the deep south in the USA and you wouldn't understand anything either. who cares.

MatyjaszThreads: 2 Posts: 1,786 Joined: Jul 20, 06 ♂	Edited by: Matyjasz Aug 19, 10, 23:47 #137
For me American English sounds plain, unimaginative and common. Of course this is a clear generalisation as there are some american actors that I take pleasure to listen to, but on the whole there is much more going on for me in the British Eng . There is much more flavour and melody about it. Unfortunately it is harder to understand and mimic.

saschaThreads: 13 Posts: 3,851 Joined: Jun 10, 10 ♂	Aug 20, 10, 00:05 #138
When u debate about his it looks to me like disputing about original and blue print. Both are actually the same. Why this then?

♂

Edited by: Richfilth Aug 20, 10, 08:06 #139

sascha:

When u debate about his it looks to me like disputing about original and blue print. Both are actually the same.

Generally this wouldn't be a problem, but if your profession is based on providing English to a client (I'm not just a teacher*), then that client needs to know what they are getting for their money.

If we rephrase the original question to "Which English are Poles prepared to pay for? US or UK?" it becomes very relevant. There are many differences between UK and US, and it is unprofessional for a teacher or trainer or consultant not to make the client aware of both.

Unfortunately, in my observation, teachers from the US aren't aware of the UK-style systems, simply from lack of exposure (you won't learn them from Monty Python or Mr. Bean), whereas teachers from the British Isles at least have some idea of Americanisms, from the sheer number of films, TV shows and music that country produces. That's not to say a US teacher CAN'T teach UK English, it's just much less common.

* I'm not a gigolo, don't ask for my full-night prices

♂

Aug 20, 10, 11:04 #140

sascha:

When u debate about his it looks to me like disputing about original and blue print. Both are actually the same.
Why this then?

Because either your English isn't that advanced or you're not a language specialist.

Berlin, Vienna, Frankfurt, Bern... what's the difference it's all German?

There are lots of areas where the differences don't matter, and lots of areas where they do. IIRC they haven't been able to build speech recognition software that recognizes British and American accents yet...

Richfilth:

my observation, teachers from the US aren't aware of the UK-style systems

Very true. That's why I only accept work where specifically American (or more generalized international) usage is acceptable or required.

I've turned down work that specifically required British norms because i don't know those norms well enough. I've gained some passive knowledge over the years (more than 90% of Americans probably) but there's still a lot of holes.

One example: some years ago I was approached to be a consultant in a computer generated speech project and was tempted until I found out that it was supposed to be based on British norms and there's just no way I could do that. I suggested that they contact a Brit I knew (who was also fluent in Polish, which was necessary).

saschaThreads: 13 Posts: 3,851 Joined: Jun 10, 10 ♂	Aug 20, 10, 12:39 #141
mafketis: Berlin, Vienna, Frankfurt, Bern... what's the difference it's all German? Ur right. There is no "competition" between those countries language wise. They know that if they speak it that they speak German. Punkt. Not counting of course those local dialects. We call that Hochdeutsch.

♂ [Suspended]

Aug 20, 10, 13:36 #142

Richfilth:

If we rephrase the original question to "Which English are Poles prepared to pay for? US or UK?" it becomes very relevant. There are many differences between UK and US, and it is unprofessional for a teacher or trainer or consultant not to make the client aware of both.

I try my best to make people aware of the differences - many people are actually surprised to learn that there is actually a definitive American English dictionary, for instance.

sascha:

There is no "competition" between those countries language wise. They know that if they speak it that they speak German. Punkt. Not counting of course those local dialects.

Swiss German?

saschaThreads: 13 Posts: 3,851 Joined: Jun 10, 10 ♂	Aug 20, 10, 13:40 #143
delphiandomine: Swiss German? That's local dialect.

♂

Aug 20, 10, 13:59 #144

sascha:

That's local dialect.

Quite a few of them can't speak hochdeutsch. Schwizerditsch has also infected their schools.

FUZZYWICKETS:

and i could take you into the deep south in the USA and you wouldn't understand anything either. who cares.

Alcohol does a great job bringing the southern drawl out, but it's just an accent, albeit a heavy one. Gullah on the other hand is a crazy dialect that 99% of English speakers can't begin to follow. My grandfather spoke it to us.

saschaThreads: 13 Posts: 3,851 Joined: Jun 10, 10 ♂	Aug 20, 10, 14:11 #145
convex: Quite a few of them can't speak hochdeutsch. Schwizerditsch has also infected their schools. Hochdeutsch=German Schwizerditsch=dialect of German If sth else is in use, those are dialects and of course the regional different pronunciation(Hamburg, Munich. Vienna). In principle it's German.

Lyzko

Aug 20, 10, 21:42 #146

@Matjasz,
American English sounds unimaginative to you because you've been exposed to poor English, obviously. If you listen to classic Hollywood dialogue with its snappy repartee or talk show hosts such as the lamented, late GREAT Mr. Jack Paar, TV news announcers like Cronkite, Collingwood, Swazey or Severeid.. I think you'd change your tune-:-))

@Sascha,
Was haeltst du von 'Denglisch'? What hold you from 'Denglish'? Just curious, because so much German guys talk like this, sounds but as British speech, or?

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Aug 20, 10, 21:53 #147
That's where you are wrong, FUZZY. I can understand a lot of cajun stuff. Try me! It wasn't ignorant at all. Many are unaware of just how diverse it is, fact!

POLAND . The Unofficial Guide	Unanswered \| Archives
POLAND . The Unofficial Guide	Poland Now and Then	Witamy, Guest \| PF Members \| Gold Members

Home \| Unanswered \| Archives \| Random \| Statistics	Time in Poland: 15:48 / May 26
About Us \| Contact Us \| Rules, Privacy \| Poland Advertising	© 2005-12 PolishForums.com