Polish was chosen the HARDEST LANGUAGE in the world to learn... :D

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Oct 10, 09, 15:12 #181

michalek:

Mamy dwa samochody. Konkretnie dwie beemki. Jedziemy samochodem we dwoje. Z tyłu wsiadło dwóch kolegów. Ci dwaj koledzy piją piwko. Nie jadą z dwiema koleżankami. Gdyż dwóm koleżankom akurat coś wypadło. Więc jadą z dwoma piwami ;]. To nie jest dużo jak dla dwojga. Dwojgu kolegom zachciało się pogawędki. Jednemu się przypomniało, że jak jechał kiedyś z dwojgiem rodziców i dziadkami. Dwójka dziadków opowiadała że. W szkole miała same dwójki. Bo zamiast się uczyć oglądali Dwójkę (tvp2 :P). I każdy z nich lądował z dwójką na koniec semestru. Nie szło im za dobrze w dwójce (II LO :P), więc przenieśli się do trójki. Przed odejściem walnęli sprejem na ścianie napis „żegnaj dwójko”

Good job michalek :)

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Oct 10, 09, 16:25 #182

SwedeInPoland:

Can anyone actually hear a difference between "cieszę się" (I'm glad) and "czeszę się" (I combing my hair)?

Yes, very clearly (I'm a native speaker of Polish, though). I've noticed that you (meaning people from the so called Western Europe) also have a problem with "si" and "sz". "Si" is often incorrectly translated as "sh". For example, Gosia becomes Gosha. It irritates me a lot. Thank God I don't have any "si" or "sz" sounds in my name.

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Edited by: SzwedwPolsce Oct 10, 09, 16:42 #183

Hi! I am also a Swede living in Poland. As you can tell from my user name.

SwedeInPoland:

Can anyone actually hear a difference between "cieszę się" (I'm glad) and "czeszę się" (I combing my hair)?

I think you also can hear the differnence. Maybe if the person is drunk and talking fast it can be difficult.

But it's a clear difference between ci and cz(e).
Cz is like the ch in the English word cheese (slight t-sound in the beginning).
Ci is more tssi sound. But difficult to explain in words.

NomsenseThreads: - Posts: 47 Joined: Sep 20, 09 ♂	Oct 10, 09, 16:49 #184
SzwedwPolsce: Cz is like the ch in the English word cheese (slight t-sound in the beginning).Ci is more tssi sound. But difficult to explain in words. I've always been told "ci" is more soft. What's your impression?

PolsonThreads: 15 Posts: 2,814 Joined: May 9, 07 ♂	Oct 10, 09, 17:02 #185
Nomsense: "Si" is often incorrectly translated as "sh". For example, Gosia becomes Gosha. It irritates me a lot. You can't blame foreigners if they don't have that particular sound in their language. Cz and ci are close sounds. Cz can be transcribed as an English 'ch' sound. Ci is the same sound, just...wetter. But you know, when you're not used to it, those sounds are pretty similar.

NomsenseThreads: - Posts: 47 Joined: Sep 20, 09 ♂	Edited by: Nomsense Oct 10, 09, 17:09 #186
Polson: You can't blame foreigners if they don't have that particular sound in their language. I don't. The lack of care when spelling someone's name is what irritates me. Polson: Ci is the same sound, just...wetter. The tongue is in a completely different position.

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Oct 10, 09, 17:12 #187

Nomsense:

The lack of care when spelling someone's name is what irritates me

Then please don't come to France, here people don't even try to imitate the accent (i'm generalising a bit but i know i'm right).

'You are a beautiful girl' -> (with a strong French accent) You aRR uh byouTifool guh-RRl
Nice.

;)

Nomsense:

The tongue is in a completely different position.

Completely different, really?
It's obvious for you, not for everybody.

NomsenseThreads: - Posts: 47 Joined: Sep 20, 09 ♂	Oct 10, 09, 17:23 #188
Polson: Completely different, really? It's obvious for you, not for everybody. Hey, I realise that. I have the same kind of problem with some English sounds. Polson: with a strong French accent Oh, I love it ;-) .

PolsonThreads: 15 Posts: 2,814 Joined: May 9, 07 ♂	Oct 10, 09, 17:33 #189
Nomsense: I have the same kind of problem with some English sounds. Ah, you see ^^ Nomsense: Oh, I love it ;-) Argh, i don't ;) It's such a shame that people can just speak French. There are French people who are very good at English, but they're a minority.

SwedeInPoland

Oct 10, 09, 18:55 #190

Well, what I really meant is not that I can't hear a difference between "cz" and "ci", because I can if people speak reasonably slowly and clearly. It's more about being able to "decode" a sound as separate from another which you are used to perceiving as two variations of the same sound. It's particularly hard when there are many such sounds after one another. The flexible position of the word "się" complicates things further.

Another really annoying thing with Polish is that monosyllabic nouns sometimes aren't stressed if they're preceded by a preposition, e.g. "ode mnie" and "każdego dnia", but I guess you get used to it after a few... err, decades. ;)

NikaThreads: 3 Posts: 651 Joined: Jul 21, 09 ♀	Oct 10, 09, 21:31 #191
Polson: Then please don't come to France, here people don't even try to imitate the accent (i'm generalising a bit but i know i'm right). 'You are a beautiful girl' -> (with a strong French accent) You aRR uh byouTifool guh-RRl Nice. hahahahahaha - you are so right Polson. Do you know how long it took me to realise that when they said Rishar Shamberlen they actually meant Richard Chamberlain!?

PolsonThreads: 15 Posts: 2,814 Joined: May 9, 07 ♂	Oct 10, 09, 21:53 #192
Nika: Rishar Shamberlen they actually meant Richard Chamberlain!? Haha, i know!! We say it this way in France (i'm not proud of it, but we learn it this way at school). Plus, 'Chamberlain' could be a French name. We pronounce it just as if it was French

NikaThreads: 3 Posts: 651 Joined: Jul 21, 09 ♀	Oct 10, 09, 22:02 #193
Polson: (i'm not proud of it, but we learn it this way at school). you learn about Richard Chamberlain at school? Anyway, it's funny the way you guys pronounce everything (especially names) à la française :)

PolsonThreads: 15 Posts: 2,814 Joined: May 9, 07 ♂	Oct 10, 09, 22:22 #194
Nika: you learn about Richard Chamberlain at school? No, Arthur Neville Chamberlain (WW2). Nika: it's funny the way you guys pronounce everything (especially names) à la française It's not funny! It sucks! ^^ Even when i watch a football game on TV: 'Steven GeRaRR' for Steven GerarD, no 'd' in the French pronunciation.

NikaThreads: 3 Posts: 651 Joined: Jul 21, 09 ♀	Oct 10, 09, 22:29 #195
Polson: No, Arthur Neville Chamberlain (WW2). hahahahahaha OK, that makes sense. Polson: 'Steven GeRaRR' for Steven GerarD, no 'd' in the French pronunciation. why is it that in French language d or t at the end of a word isn't pronounced? Why is it there in the first place, I mean why do you write it if you don't pronounce it?

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Oct 11, 09, 00:04 #196

Nika:

why is it that in French language d or t at the end of a word isn't pronounced? Why is it there in the first place, I mean why do you write it if you don't pronounce it?

You will find many, many words in French with unpronounced letters.
If you want a short explanation, French was made purposedly more difficult several centuries ago, to make it more 'noble', so that only cultivated people could use it.
Before that time, French spelling was very easy.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,160 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Oct 11, 09, 00:11 #197
I reckon my linguistic awareness is pretty decent so I can imagine there being several languages more difficult than Polish. Some take to other languages more easily. For example, you could have sb with a talent for languages struggle with an 'easier' language because of lack of interest or incompatible thinking. Criteria does exist for classifying difficulty but it doesn't work in all cases.

ArienThreads: 6 Posts: 1,604 Joined: Oct 20, 08 ♂	Edited by: Arien Oct 11, 09, 00:20 #198
I still think Chinese is harder to learn? (For Europeans I mean!) :)

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,160 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Oct 11, 09, 00:26 #199
The grammar isn't that bad, I've heard. My Taiwanese friend wanted to teach me but I was happy learning Japanese at that time. The intonation is tough. 4 tones in Mandarin and 7 in Cantonese, I think. One tone different makes the difference between anus and grandma. If there are Chinese on here, please confirm this.

scrappletonThreads: - Posts: 1,365 Joined: Apr 28, 09 ♂	Oct 11, 09, 00:33 #200
Seanus: One tone different makes the difference between anus and grandma. Possibly a hazard depending on how spry your grandma is.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,160 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Oct 11, 09, 00:36 #201
What does spry mean?

ArienThreads: 6 Posts: 1,604 Joined: Oct 20, 08 ♂	Edited by: Arien Oct 11, 09, 00:39 #202
Seanus: What does spry mean? spry [spraɪ] adj. spryer, spryest, sprier spriest. Active and brisk; nimble. :)

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,160 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Oct 11, 09, 00:41 #203
Hmm...I wonder if he was making a point that English isn't the easiest of languages either ;) Seanus (scratches his head and looks at the empty Errazuriz wine bottle beside him)

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Oct 11, 09, 01:04 #204

Polson:

You will find many, many words in French with unpronounced letters.
If you want a short explanation, French was made purposedly more difficult several centuries ago, to make it more 'noble', so that only cultivated people could use it.
Before that time, French spelling was very easy.

My favourite example of such a word in English is "queue". I've heard English spelling was heavily influenced by French. That would explain it ;-) .

scrappletonThreads: - Posts: 1,365 Joined: Apr 28, 09 ♂	Oct 11, 09, 01:31 #205
Seanus: I wonder if he was making a point that English isn't the easiest of languages either ;) Aren't you a teacher of it?

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,160 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Oct 11, 09, 01:32 #206
Powiedzmy ;) ;)

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Oct 11, 09, 07:05 #207

Hello, I am new here, so first off, "hello" and thank you in advance. I've just started trying to learn some Polish (just hoping for some basic conversational ability) and it is so far for me very slow going and challenging. I was wondering after reading through some of this thread how native Polish speakers react to novice speakers...is the effort generally appreciated or is bad Polish worse than no Polish? Also, what other languages might Poles be likely to speak (all I have is my American English and some French, probably not much help?). This thread seems rather technical but everyone here seems quite friendly so I thought I would ask. Thank You!

NikaThreads: 3 Posts: 651 Joined: Jul 21, 09 ♀	Oct 11, 09, 12:22 #208
Polson: Before that time, French spelling was very easy. it's definitely very difficult today! Why don't you go back to the old, good times of easy French spelling. That would save me a lot of time when I write e-mails to my French-speaking friends :)

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Oct 11, 09, 12:37 #209

selena:

Also, what other languages might Poles be likely to speak

older generations often do speak some German (it was the language of science back in the interbellum) seems however these generations are soon to pass
all children were taught Russian since the 50's up until 1989 (so was I) and some people know it fairly well (I can say my ability to speak Russian is moderate but I guess I can understand much more)
knowledge of French is really limited in Poland

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Edited by: Polson Oct 11, 09, 13:30 #210

Nomsense:

My favourite example of such a word in English is "queue". I've heard English spelling was heavily influenced by French. That would explain it

Heavily influenced by French? You mean TOTALLY ;)
It's the French spelling, with an English pronunciation.
In French, we say [kuh] (the 'uh' sound is..harder, like German 'ö').

Nika:

Why don't you go back to the old, good times of easy French spelling.

Actually we do ^^ Well, young people do, when they write SMSs or emails... They make many mistakes (on purpose, well most of the time..) just to have shorter messages and mails.

Example: Je vais voir un match de football à la télévision.
(I'm going to watch a football game on television)
-> Je V vwar 1 match 2 foot a la tv.

Which i find, personnally, totally unsightly ;) Some people actually can't write 'normally'.

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