Pronunciation difficulties for Poles speaking English

kieThreads: 17 Posts: 28 Joined: Jun 4, 07 ♂	Edited by: kie Oct 30, 11, 12:22 #1
Hello. What difficulties do Poles typically have when attempting to pronounce English words and what are the reasons for this? I am interested as I'm currently helping a Polka to speak English. Not sure if it makes a great difference, but I am also using British English. I've got a brief understanding of and can refer to the phonemic symbols. Thanks, Kieron.

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Oct 30, 11, 12:46 #2

/Ʒ:/, as in nurse, is a problem for Poles because they don’t have this sound in Polish.
/Ɔ:/, as in door, war, more, is another one. Try getting your student to repeat lists of words after you, e.g. nurse, norse; hearse, horse; bird, bored.
/æ/, as in cat, is another tricky one for Poles. So is /˄/, as in but.
Again, try minimal pairs, like cat, cut; hat, hut; bat, but.

/Ө/ and /ð/, as in thin and this pose real problems, with Poles taking the path of least resistance and uttering fin and viss, although estuary English is making these sounds more acceptable!

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Oct 30, 11, 14:14 #3

kie:

what are the reasons for this?

The main reason is the fact that English language is the most inconsistent language in the world . It doesn`t have any predictable rules in pronunciation , double vowels and its grammar rules are totally different than Polish . Because of these differences it is very hard to learn both languages by Polish and English speakers .

Just for example :
English letter "u" is pronunced in Polish only like "u" , but it has few different pronunciations in English -

in a word "you" - Polish pronunciation of a letter "u" is the same like in English

but in other words like :

"music, mute , mural " - it sounds like Polish "ju"
" but , hut " - like Polish "a "
"bury " - like Polish "e"
"succint" - like Polish "y" why do you pronunce it more like Polish " syksynt " is a total puzzle for me .

VincentThreads: 15 Posts: 1,706 Joined: Sep 9, 07 ♂ [Moderator]	Oct 30, 11, 14:37 #4
polmed: " but , hut " - like Polish "a " I think this must be the same as ś and sz. Hard to tell the difference straight away. Not many British people would put a hut on their head on a cold January morning. polmed: "succint" - like Polish "y" why do you pronunce it more like Polish " syksynt " is a total puzzle for me . Just glad this word doesn't come up much in everyday conversation.:)

polmedThreads: 2 Posts: 274 Joined: Sep 25, 11 ♀	Oct 30, 11, 14:54 #5
Because you dont have ś in your language , you have to learn how to pronunce it from a Polish speaker . No , we don`t put huts on our heads when its cold . The difference between hut and hat is easy to discern for Polish speaker ." Hut' in Polish sounds like " hat " , but "Hat " sounds in Polish like "het".LOLs, so complicated total mish mash.

legendThreads: 9 Posts: 819 Joined: Apr 23, 11 ♂	Oct 30, 11, 14:55 #6
My dad says shit instead of sheet :)

polmedThreads: 2 Posts: 274 Joined: Sep 25, 11 ♀	Oct 30, 11, 15:06 #7
legend: My dad says shit instead of sheet :) For an English speaker it must sound funny , when he asks for some shits of paper in a bookstore :)

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Oct 30, 11, 15:26 #8

polmed:

Hut' in Polish sounds like " hat " , but "Hat " sounds in Polish like "het".

when someone can recognize certain words... they are pronounced correctly. this is after learning english alphabet sounds.

most learners will recognize 'hat' and will give the english pronunciation.

However, daughter number three read 'hut' as 'hoot'. this is because she'd never seen the word before.

when there is a difficulty the Polish alphabet sounds come into use.

chichimeraThreads: 3 Posts: 356 Joined: Feb 4, 11 ♀	Oct 30, 11, 15:45 #9
I've a problem with L - there seem to be 2 sounds for L in English: 1) called 2) cold. Number 1 sounds similar to the L we use in Polish but number 2 is something between L and Ł (or W in English) - I can hear the difference but I'm unable to pronounce it. Any tips?

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Oct 30, 11, 15:55 #10

chichimera:

I've a problem with L - there seem to be 2 sounds for L in English: 1) called 2) cold. Number 1 sounds similar to the L we use in Polish but number 2 is something between L and Ł (or W in English) - I can hear the difference but I'm unable to pronounce it. Any tips?

The fact that you can hear a slight difference shows that you have a good ear (probably two, in fact) for English. When you say called you can feel your tongue touching your alveolar ridge, the hard part of the roof of your mouth just behind your top teeth (sometimes burned when we eat hot pizza). Does your tongue touch this part when you say cold? It should.

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Edited by: JonnyM Oct 30, 11, 16:16 #11

chichimera:

1) called 2) cold. Number 1 sounds similar to the L we use in Polish but number 2 is something between L and Ł (or W in English)...... Any tips?

Yes. Ignore it. The difference between the two sounds is a regional thing from south-east England. It doesn't usually sound good when someone from another country speaks Estuary English. Unless they've immigrated to Romford in which case they're beyond help anyway..

polmed:

Hut' in Polish sounds like " hat " , but "Hat " sounds in Polish like "het".

See above. You have clearly been speaking to the wrong people

polmed:

succint" - like Polish "y" why do you pronunce it more like Polish " syksynt " is a total puzzle for me .

No. Perhaps you've been hobnobbing with a person from Rhodesia or some such. Down our way we pronounce it correctly /sʌksɪnkt/

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Oct 30, 11, 18:15 #12

so do you both suggest that cold and called can sound alike and that's ok? The thing is sometimes I have to ask for salt and people don't get what I'm asking for - then after I've repeated it several times placing my tongue in random places of my mouth trying to guess what the L should sound like they say Ah, saWt - or something close to that - and then they know.. It makes me feel quite stupid really...

/sʌksɪnkt/ I think Polish native speakers don't naturally know what ʌ and ɪ sound like - or even if they know they find it difficult to produce those sounds. To me ʌ like in hut sounds like a combination of Polish u and y rather than Polish a; and ɪ more like Polish y, the Polish sound for i is similar to what in English is written ee like in deep - that's why polmed asked if succint sounds like syksynt - I think it does a bit - although it's a simplified way of pronouncing it

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Edited by: teflcat Oct 30, 11, 18:39 #13

chichimera:

placing my tongue in random places of my mouth trying to guess what the L should sound like they say Ah, saWt - or something close to that - and then they know.. It makes me feel quite stupid really...

Your profile says you're in Nottingham, which would explain a lot! There are lots of regional accents in England, and you just have to 'tune in'.

chichimera:

so do you both suggest that cold and called can sound alike and that's ok?

The l sound is the same but the vowel sound is different. called has a sound like door or more in 'standard' English pronunciation, but cold has a vowel sound like old or over.

chichimeraThreads: 3 Posts: 356 Joined: Feb 4, 11 ♀	Oct 30, 11, 18:48 #14
teflcat: The l sound is the same but the vowel sound is different. called has a sound like door or more in 'standard' English pronunciation, but cold has a vowel sound like old. :) Thanks for that! I think I getting it now. At last :)

saschaThreads: 13 Posts: 3,851 Joined: Jun 10, 10 ♂	Oct 30, 11, 19:44 #15
here a clip which shows the global problem...ze inglisch... ;)

LanguageSwapThreads: 1 Posts: 10 Joined: Oct 30, 11 ♂	Oct 31, 11, 00:22 #16
What is more, i think that a lot of Polish people have problem with such phenomenon called final devoicing, i mean they pronounce for example the word boys like / bois/ instead of voiced z in the end. because the rule of final devoicing applies in Polish.

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Edited by: ShAlEyNsTfOh Oct 31, 11, 01:21 #17

I've lived in Canada since I was 5 - that's over 20 years now - yet i've managed to develop an interesting slight accent in my everyday speech, which does create some problems for me, seeing as I generally speak very fast... almost makes it seem like i have a speech impediment at times.

I virtually cannot pronounce the english 'r'...it comes out, more or less, sounding like a 'w'. Words like: right, wright, and the worst, 'reward'.. i always end up saying something like 'wee-werd' lol... I do tend to roll my R's slightly in many, if not all, english words, simply because I find it easier.

Also, words like 'tragedy' or 'strategy' - don't know why really.. it's like saying 'czra-dże-di' lol... i find it a whole lot easier to say in polish 'tragedia' :P

and the 'th' sound for me, like most Poles, is a no-no. 'The' becomes 'da', three becomes 'free', and so on..

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Edited by: JonnyM Oct 31, 11, 02:02 #18

chichimera:

placing my tongue in random places of my mouth trying to guess what the L should sound like they say Ah, saWt

Short /o/ hard /l/ should be fine,think 'solt', po polsku.

edit

I just read that you're in Nottingham (pretty well the only accent I can't parody). They would say something like /sawt/ that's hard to copy. Nobody would expect you to say it the way they do, and you could maybe derive some comfort that I can speak Polish with a fairly good Mazowiecki accent but can't do Nottingham despite coming from 50km away. The Nottingham accent is very specific and (in my opinion) not very nice. Maybe you've noticed that only a few miles out of town the accent changes.

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Oct 31, 11, 22:01 #19

sascha:

here a clip which shows the global problem...ze inglisch... ;)

LoL, that is really funny :D

LanguageSwap:

because the rule of final devoicing applies in Polish.

That is a nightmare.. That's why we happen to say: "Give me the kiss" instead of "Give me the keys" and "Where is my back?" instead of "Where is my bag?"

ShAlEyNsTfOh:

I virtually cannot pronounce the english 'r'...it comes out, more or less, sounding like a 'w'

Someone told me that when saying the English r the lips should be shaped as if you wanted to say u in Polish - not sure how correct that advice is but I've been following it

JonnyM:

you could maybe derive some comfort that I can speak Polish with a fairly good Mazowiecki accent but can't do Nottingham despite coming from 50km away.

That is comforting indeed :) By the way - do you think there are accents in Polish? When I lived in Lublin I was told sometimes that I had the "singing" Masurian accent but still don't have a clue what they meant. In Polish I distinguish just 3 accents: the "normal" Polish and the Silesian and the Kashubian one - but the two latter exist because their Polish is influenced by the dialects. Or maybe my ears become lazy when it comes to Polish

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