Recommended for learners: Michel Thomas Method Polish Audiobook

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Oct 31, 08, 10:53 #1

I would just like to say that today I bought came across this audiobook narrated by Jolanta Cecula using the Michel Thomas method of learning and I have learned more in a few hours than I have in weeks using other products.

Before anyone says anything I am in no way affiliated with anything to do with the book or the company who sells it, I'm just offering advice!

You can find out more on one of the links below.

michelthomas.co.uk

audible.co.uk/aduk/site/audibleSearch/searchResults.jsp?BV_UseBVCookie =Yes&ms=1320&uniqueKey=1225468025038&N=2506&Np=-37443&Ns=P_Release_Dat e|1&ms=1320

Good learning to you all!

:D i :P

SeanBMThreads: 41 Posts: 8,727 Joined: Mar 10, 08 ♂	Oct 31, 08, 10:59 #2
What is the Michel Thomas Method ? How much did it cost?

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Oct 31, 08, 11:40 #3

I have seen it on ebay going for £25 pounds at the moment, but the general price seem to be around £35..Michel Thomas was a language teacher to the stars, demanding up to $30,000 a week for his sessions. Some people have criticized his teachings because he had a German accent so any language that you might learn would have his accent.

However I believe he used polish native speakers on his polish course.

MarekThreads: 4 Posts: 1,120 Joined: Feb 15, 07 ♂	Nov 1, 08, 13:26 #4
"a German accent...." Ever heard or sat in on an English class in Germany?? The teacher often has such a strong native accent that it's a miracle the pupils learn to speak decent English at all. In Poland it's probably the same.-:)

z_dariusThreads: 22 Posts: 5,091 Joined: Oct 18, 07 ♂	Nov 2, 08, 20:26 #5
Marek: The teacher often has such a strong native accent that it's a miracle the pupils learn to speak decent English at all. In Poland it's probably the same.-:) Actually, in Poland very few teachers of English have German accent ;)

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Edited by: gtd Nov 2, 08, 20:30 #6

Marek:

In Poland it's probably the same.-:)

I do think it is odd how bad some of the Poles who tell me they are English teachers actually speak English. They usually have pretty bad accents and I can't imagine how they teach anything accurately. Many of them don't even manage grammar correctly.

In my high school our language teachers were native speakers of the four languages taught...the same in the Uni I went to. I wouldn't want to learn Polish from an American who kind of knows it and speaks it with an American accent.

polishgirltx

Nov 2, 08, 20:40 #7

gtd:

I do think it is odd how bad some of the Poles who tell me they are English teachers actually speak English. They usually have pretty bad accents and I can't imagine how they teach anything accurately. Many of them don't even manage grammar correctly.

In my high school our language teachers were native speakers of the four languages taught...the same in the Uni I went to. I wouldn't want to learn Polish from an American who kind of knows it and speaks it with an American accent.

at school in Poland i didn't learn English from a native speaker, but from a Pole... the same story was with learning german, french, russian and latin(i know, right?)...

in the us, i learned English from native speakers, but at my Uni some spanish speakers were not native (and tx do not luck spanish native speakers)...

it's just the way it is, even though it doesn't always work...

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Nov 2, 08, 21:21 #8

gtd:

I wouldn't want to learn Polish from an American who kind of knows it and speaks it with an American accent.

There is quite a bit of difference between an American trying to teach Polish and a Poles trying to teach English :)

I agree that many Poles with the so called teaching credentials suffer from a pretty thick accent and they spice it up with some funny grammatical errors. Still, I have experienced more than a fair share of Poles with competent English skills, easily rivaling those of some native speakers of the language.

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Edited by: gtd Nov 2, 08, 21:27 #9

z_darius:

There is quite a bit of difference between an American trying to teach Polish and a Poles trying to teach English :)

Nonsense. If both are fluent at the same level there is no difference at all. Learning from a non native speaker is the same in this example. It would lead to the same bad habits and non natural accent.

z_darius:

Still, I have experienced more than a fair share of Poles with competent English skills, easily rivaling those of some native speakers of the language.

The only ones I have seen like this lived in the US for years as children...and some of them have zero accent in English. More than a fair share rivaling natives though? I would disagree. I have spoken to people with PhDs in English and they still sounded like a parody from a Russian movie. It is all about where you grow up. I have never heard a foreigner speak flawless English unless they were raised in an English speaking society.

polishgirltx	Nov 2, 08, 21:30 #10
gtd: It would lead to the same bad habits and non natural accent. you haven't learned english from an american.... if you have no idea about the language, you start making the same silly mistakes... ;)

gtdThreads: 3 Posts: 875 Joined: Sep 8, 08 ♂	Nov 2, 08, 21:34 #11
I am not sure if you are agreeing with me or not? Must be your English ;)

polishgirltx	Nov 2, 08, 21:36 #12
my english causes problem sometimes, but i'm only adding my 2 cents here...

gtdThreads: 3 Posts: 875 Joined: Sep 8, 08 ♂	Edited by: gtd Nov 2, 08, 21:37 #13
And I don't know what you meant. Your two cents is more like 2gr to me :) Can you clarify? Not sure if you are agreeing with my point or saying something else.

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Nov 2, 08, 21:52 #14

gtd:

Nonsense. If both are fluent at the same level there is no difference at all.

That's the problem. How does an American become fluent in Polish? :)

gtd:

The only ones I have seen like this lived in the US for years as children...and some of them have zero accent in English. More than a fair share rivaling natives though? I would disagree.

You are not in a position to disagree because you have no idea who I met and who the people were and how good their English was. You have lived mostly in the US so your experience is what it is but it doesn't prove anything in regards to my experience. In short, you have responded to a post you haven't understood or thought through. You certainly failed on the level of basic communication. You read the words and you responded using words but your response makes no logical sense.

Is that the alleged superiority of the native speakers of English?

English is not really that hard to learn. The pronunciation is a physical exercise and to be successful, a learner needs a lot of practice. The degree of phonological and grammatical fluency is directly related to the effort. Many people do not learn to become native speakers of the foreign language but to be able to communicate for specific reasons. Such persons will never speak RP whether they are taught by a UCLA prof. or by a half-asss teacher of English from Poland.

Again, I have met sufficient number of Poles speaking English with native proficiency before they had a chance to even go to the US or UK. Among them prof. Wiktor Jassem whose works are frequently quoted and used in the academia around the world. Another one is now the director of a teaching school in Poland, credentialed by British Council with the highest qualifications. He's specialty has been English phonetics and his English would put to shame many native speakers of the language.

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Nov 2, 08, 22:02 #15

Wow...where do I start.

First of all I have lived in Poland for years and have experienced a pretty good cross section of English speakers. I am saying overall based on my experience I do not believe there to be a "fair share" of Poles here speaking English at a level rivaling a native.

I think your attempts to use the language to sound intellectual and to insult me have failed.

I also think your arrogance reflects a common trait I have mentioned here before.

polishgirltx	Nov 2, 08, 22:07 #16
gtd: I have lived in Poland for years do you speak Polish? as for such a long time, it'd be fluent... just a question...

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Edited by: gtd Nov 2, 08, 22:10 #17

I do...just not well and I can tell you why. The majority of the interaction I have is with foreigners. I lived with a fluent English speaker for a few years and she just wouldn't use Polish and always spoke English. My daily immersion was more English than Polish thus my lack of fluency. It is all about your exposure. I also am aware that even once I attain fluency I am never going to sound like a native due to physiological issues of adults and accent unless I devoted full time study for years at these details.

And I know exactly why you asked the question so no need to be sly.

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Nov 2, 08, 22:10 #18

gtd:

I do not believe there to be a "fair share" of Poles here speaking English at a level rivaling a native.

I never said there is a fair share of Poles speaking English at a level rivaling a native

gtd:

I think your attempts to use the language to sound intellectual and to insult me have failed.

I do not have to make such attempts. I am an intellectual and I do not make statements to offend people, but I do point out failures in their arguments. You gave me reasons to do that.

gtd:

I also think your arrogance reflects a common trait I have mentioned here before.

Would you say my alleged arrogance matches yours?

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Edited by: gtd Nov 2, 08, 22:15 #19

z_darius:

I never said there is a fair share of Poles speaking English at a level rivaling a native

Really? What is this then?

z_darius:

Still, I have experienced more than a fair share of Poles with competent English skills, easily rivaling those of some native speakers of the language.

and as to this

z_darius:

Would you say my alleged arrogance matches yours?

I think it is a common (not all but often) trait of the Polish male to act superior to others and your alluding to the fact that Poles can learn perfect English but English speaking natives couldn't learn perfect Polish shows that. The reason more English speaking natives don't learn Polish well is there is no need compared to the number of Poles who need to speak English. It isn't complicated just numbers.

Patrycja19Threads: 79 Posts: 3,974 Joined: Oct 31, 06 ♀	Nov 2, 08, 22:17 #20
gtd: And I know exactly why you asked the question so no need to be sly. well , I wonder if he says this to all the Ladies.

gtdThreads: 3 Posts: 875 Joined: Sep 8, 08 ♂	Nov 2, 08, 22:17 #21
Patrycja19: well , I wonder if he says this to all the Ladies. That depends...think it is a good line? :P

Patrycja19Threads: 79 Posts: 3,974 Joined: Oct 31, 06 ♀	Nov 2, 08, 22:23 #22
gtd: That depends...think it is a good line? :P that depends on how arrogant you feel at the moment I guess ;) is that a common trait of yours BTW?

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Nov 2, 08, 22:24 #23

gtd:

Really?

z_darius:

Still, I have experienced more than a fair share of Poles with competent English skills, easily rivaling those of some native speakers of the language.

See? You're doing it again!

What you quote says I have experienced more than a fair share of Poles with competent English skills. It doesn't say there is a fair share of Poles speaking English at a level rivaling a native. This is really basic English, isn't it?

gtd:

trait of the Polish male to act superior to others and your alluding to the fact that Poles can learn perfect English but English speaking natives couldn't learn perfect Polish shows that.

I never said or alluded any such thing. You are learning Polish, so you should know better what I alluded to. Although from my experience native English speakers have a harder time learning a foreign language than many other nationalities, Polish is simply too damn difficult to be compared to English in terms of degree of difficulty and the students' requirements for native speakers. English is one of the easier languages to learn. Polish hits the top 5 most difficult languages in the world.

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Nov 2, 08, 22:26 #24

z_darius:

What you quote says I have experienced more than a fair share of Poles with competent English skills. It doesn't say there is a fair share of Poles speaking English at a level rivaling a native. This is really basic English, isn't it?

Semantics and you know it. You intention was very clear and you are nitpicking to try and avoid admitting it.

And yet another smarmy attempt at an insult. It's not working.

z_dariusThreads: 22 Posts: 5,091 Joined: Oct 18, 07 ♂	Nov 2, 08, 22:30 #25
gtd: Semantics and you know it. Semantics is a critical part of language skills. Without it there is no meaningful communication. You are rejecting statements I never made. gtd: You intention was very clear and you are nitpicking to try and avoid admitting it. So now you're a psychoanalyst and you know what my intentions were? These American teachers of English are a very versatile bunch :)

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Nov 2, 08, 22:35 #26

z_darius:

So now you're a psychoanalyst and you know what my intentions were? These American teachers of English are a very versatile bunch :)

No psychoanalysis required...some things are very obvious.

Patrycja19:

that depends on how arrogant you feel at the moment I guess ;) is that a common trait of yours BTW?

Pointing out the arrogance of others is not arrogant. Most of what people have gotten on me about is pointing out the tendency of Poles to tell you how they are smarter or better than other cultures or the racist nature in the culture that is denied but clear to all outside.

Now if I went about saying how I was by nature of my culture better than Poles then I could be labeled as arrogant. But I have not done that nor do I think that. I would simply like Poles to own and admit their faults rather than attack others like filios and co.

Patrycja19Threads: 79 Posts: 3,974 Joined: Oct 31, 06 ♀	Nov 2, 08, 22:39 #27
gtd: And yet another smarmy attempt at an insult. It's not working. I think your reading way to far into it.. hes discussing it .. it escalated from there.

gtdThreads: 3 Posts: 875 Joined: Sep 8, 08 ♂	Nov 2, 08, 22:42 #28
Patrycja19: I think your reading way to far into it.. hes discussing it .. it escalated from there. I disagree. There is a common undertone in many posts here. It is easy to recognize and I point it out. Comments such as "This is really basic English, isn't it?" are not cryptic at all and meant as insults. Don't worry I am aware the party line here is not in agreement with me.

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Nov 2, 08, 22:55 #29

gtd:

There is a common undertone

oh, hold on..now I know your reading it wrong.

a common undertone, you cant even hear how it was presented to you as a simple discussion..

I can say I hate candy in a whiny tone and I can say I hate candy in a mean tone the two would be different.. but I have to say it so you can hear it!!!

you cant possibly get undertones from typing.. unless your super man or something. <~now that had a undertone did ya hear it??

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Nov 2, 08, 22:55 #30

gtd:

gtd

With all your remarks about arrogance of Poles you seem to be misunderstanding what I write, and looking for trouble where there is none. I wrote about my experience but you just couldn't take it at face value and that is simply arrogant. This is arrogant because by denying that the experience is true and, psychoanalysis back at you, you are in essence suggesting that Poles cannot learn Polish at a native level without a native teacher. Well, they can and some do. I met such Poles, you haven't. The fact that you haven't experienced something doesn't mean that other haven't either.

What you mentioned earlier about the impossibility of native level proficiency without years of study is largely true. One thing you fail to realize that some people do devote years of study to the language at lengths that are probably not even within the reach of your imagination. I have no idea what they do in Poland now, but when I studied English, phonology alone was a two year course. Led by a Pole. UK and US profs taught literature. Not one was employed to teach the actual language.

Those (students) who cared achieved a decent level of proficiency. Those who didn't... well, I know Poles and Italians in Buffalo, NY who speak perhaps 10 words of English after 40 years in the US. Nurses learn more Italian during a patient's week long stay in a hospital than some Italians learn English in decades.

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