POLAND . The Unofficial Guide	Unanswered \| Archives
POLAND . The Unofficial Guide	Poland Information in English	Witamy, Guest \| PF Members \| Gold Members

Polish Forums / General Language /

Ukrainian language similar to Polish?

page 2 of 7: « Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Next »

♂

Apr 4, 09, 15:51 #31

Is there really anything to challenge the conventional model of the early split between South Slavic and North Slavic, which then split into East and West Slavic, which then split into Russian, Belorussion and Ukrainian in the east and Polish, Czech and Slovak in the west? Certainly there have been borrowings between these languages, but the mass of Latin-derived words in English doesn't stop English being a Germanic language.

♂

Apr 4, 09, 19:05 #32

Nathan:

Have you been contusioned during a fight with a squirrel?

I told how it sounds.You don't need to know what it means,just judge by ear how it sounds.For me czech sounds very similar to serbian.I don't know serbian but I suppose they have certain similarities.
The Czechs and Poles tend to cut the vowels while Russians say them.For example nazdravi in czech nazdarovie in russian.Divka in czech,debushka in russian.Krasna in czech krassivaya in russian.The Poles tend to keep several of the vowels but they add some sounds like cz,sz which add consonants thus making the language sound again syncopated but more rounded than czech.Because if you don't have vowels where will the ton be?So while russian is melodic and flows,czech has twistes and pauses and polish ups and downs in intonations with several endings to cause again more smooth sounding sentences.

Anyway I am not an expert in slavic languages,this is my opinion after listening to them.

NathanThreads: 33 Posts: 1,846 Joined: Feb 13, 09 ♂	Apr 4, 09, 19:10 #33
southern: Nathan: Have you been contusioned during a fight with a squirrel? But you name some languages dialects of others and Bulgarian is "provincial" for you to Russian. I don't consider your expressions to be correct, not your hearing.

♂

Apr 4, 09, 19:20 #34

Nathan:

and Bulgarian is "provincial" for you to Russian.

With provincial I mean that the accent is different from russian accent although many words are the same.The intonation is also different.

Nathan:

But you name some languages dialects of others

It is difficult to tell what is different language and what a dialect.Cyprian for example is a dialekt of greek and nobody denies that.And ''macedonian'' in my opinion is just a dialekt of bulgarian although inhabitants of Skopje may deny it.
But slovak is not a dialekt of czech and this is obvious.Belarus language is hardly spoken in some remote belarus villages.I doubt if even Lukashenko can speak belarus.To me it sounds like a dialekt.
Ukrainian is a different story.It is spoken only in western Ukraine and a bit in Kiev and it sounds more like polish than like russian.It sounds between polish and russian but more polish and I suspect that it has more words of polish origin than of russian origin as well.

Anyway Slavs are more in position to talk about their languages and I have noticed that in reality when real circumstances demand it,slavic languages are mutually intelligible in a great extent.

♂

Apr 4, 09, 19:27 #35

southern:

it sounds more like polish than like russian.It sounds between polish and russian but more polish and I suspect that it has more words of polish origin than of russian origin as well.

Tell better how Russian sounds in comparison to Ukrainian - like a harsh dialect. Don't be one-sided squirrel-fighter.

southern:

With provincial I mean that the accent is different from russian accent although many words are the same.The intonation is also different

Why don't you say Russian is a dialect of Bulgarian? Bulgaria existed well before Russia even dreamt of.

southern:

It is spoken only in western Ukraine and a bit in Kiev

You as always generalize. Majority, maybe, but not "only"

Filios1Threads: 15 Posts: 1,953 Joined: Nov 13, 07 ♂	Edited by: Filios1 Apr 4, 09, 20:28 #36
Nathan, whats your problem? Southern is just giving his own opinion, on how it sounds for an outsider. Is it really that hard to acknowledge that there are certain similarities between slavic speakers? Or is that simply outside the realm for someone as narrow minded as you?

♂

Edited by: southern Apr 4, 09, 21:50 #37

Nathan:

Tell better how Russian sounds in comparison to Ukrainian - like a harsh dialect.

Yes,like harsh.It sounds more primitive but has power in it,like it is the real thing it expresses an authentic soul.

Nathan:

You as always generalize. Majority, maybe, but not "only"

I noticed that in Dnipropetrovsk nobody speaks ukrainian.The same is true for Kharkiv,Lugansk and Crimea.I doubt if some Ukrainians in these regions can actually read and understand ukrainian.

DaveyThreads: 17 Posts: 436 Joined: Jun 29, 07 ♂	Apr 4, 09, 23:22 #38
southern: Serbian sounds like czech I don't believe it does although Slovenian might be somewhat similar to Czech.

♂

Apr 4, 09, 23:40 #39

southern:

it expresses an authentic soul

What does it mean? It is funny. What about Hungarian it does the same or not?

Cities were russificated for a long time, but suburban areas of those cities (which I imagine you haven't visited) speak mostly Ukrainian.

Filios1:

Nathan, whats your problem? Southern is just giving his own opinion, on how it sounds for an outsider. Is it really that hard to acknowledge that there are certain similarities between slavic speakers? Or is that simply outside the realm for someone as narrow minded as you?

And what is your problem? I just reply. For me it sounds arrogant the way he talks of Bulgarians and Bielarus. Narrow minded, well, for you to judge, for me to decide.

♂

Apr 5, 09, 00:09 #40

Filios1:

Southern is just giving his own opinion

Interesting opinion even if it doesn't always entirely make sense.

Nathan:

For me it sounds arrogant

Get southern talking about girls then for comparison.

I think Slovakian sounds a bit more "Goodbye Mister Bond" than Polish. There is always something of a dialect continuum in the Slavic family, with some linguistic borders stronger than others. Even Slovenian and Czech are supposed to have similarities that can seperate them from all the others despite being seperated by German and Hungarian speaking areas and the fact that they are in seperate groups - West and South Slavic.

There is something called the Balkans linguistical gubbins (my name for it because I've forgotten the real one) where even Romanian and Albanian share similar features to their neighbouring langauges due to developing in close proximity to eachother.

Ukrainian? I dunno.

IlativThreads: - Posts: 10 Joined: May 6, 09 ♂	May 6, 09, 16:02 #41
Ukrainians peak thier own branch of eastern-Slavic languages, in Zaporizzja both Polish and Muscovian cultural influences were small until Peter I who made there "order" and reformed language. Languages are evoluateing and it`s not that Ukrainian is some hybrid of Muscovian and Polish, is just different but similar, as all Slavic languages are similar each-other

NathanThreads: 33 Posts: 1,846 Joined: Feb 13, 09 ♂	May 6, 09, 18:56 #42
rjeden: Lwow, Luck, Kamieniec Podolski i Zytomierz wiecznie polskie! I can translate it: L'viv, Luc'k, Kamianec'-Podil'skyj and Zytomyr - zawzdy ukrajins'ki!

MarekThreads: 4 Posts: 1,120 Joined: Feb 15, 07 ♂	May 11, 09, 15:42 #43
Isn't it true that Polish 'o' often becomes 'i' in Ukrainian, e.g. 'Dobra noc!' in Polish vs. Ukrainian 'Dobra nich!'??

MichalThreads: - Posts: 2,408 Joined: Feb 27, 07 ♂	May 17, 09, 22:31 #44
I have sometimes listened to Ukrainian on satilite TV at home and it is really easy to follow what is happening through Polish.

NathanThreads: 33 Posts: 1,846 Joined: Feb 13, 09 ♂	May 18, 09, 01:27 #45
Marek: Isn't it true that Polish 'o' often becomes 'i' in Ukrainian, e.g. 'Dobra noc!' in Polish vs. Ukrainian 'Dobra nich!'?? Yes, and "rz" often is expressed as "r" in Ukrainian: rzeka - rika rzecz - rich porzeczka - porychka brzeg - bereg brzoza - bereza ... You can also notice that in Polish "e" is omitted in the last two words, while in Ukrainian it is present.

Lyzko	May 18, 09, 16:13 #46
The latter two examples would then explain a family name "Berezow", probably Ukrainian, not Russian, and looking deceptively similar to the Russian word for "birch tree". Boy, etymologies are tricky:-)

SashaThreads: 2 Posts: 1,558 Joined: Apr 19, 08 ♂	May 18, 09, 16:26 #47
Lyzko: The latter two examples would then explain a family name "Berezow" How comes? Lyzko: and looking deceptively similar to the Russian word for "birch tree". Why not vice versa? :)

MarekThreads: 4 Posts: 1,120 Joined: Feb 15, 07 ♂	May 18, 09, 16:32 #48
Again, Sascha, it's only a guess.

♂

May 18, 09, 17:57 #49

"-" vs "O"
glód - holod
chlód - kholod
krowa - korowa
krona - korona
król - korol'
młot - molot
mróz - moroz

"O" vs "I"
stól - stil
dom - dim
ból - bil'
pot - pit
okno - wikno

Very similar words:

choroba - choroba
łopata - lopata
pies - pes
parasol - parasolia
zima - zyma
lato - lito
wiosna - wesna
życie - zyttia
żyto - żyto
niebo - nebo
wiatr - witer

Different words:

biedronka - zozul'ka
kotwica - jakir
czołg - tank

SalomonThreads: 6 Posts: 602 Joined: Apr 7, 09 ♂	Edited by: Salomon May 18, 09, 20:24 #50
So maybe Polonisation wasn't that bad :) If you are so proud of its effects LOL heheh

PennBoyThreads: 148 Posts: 3,273 Joined: Dec 7, 08 ♂	Jun 23, 09, 03:40 #51
Nathan: chlód - kholod question nathan in Ukrainian or Russian is the K silent or do you pernounce it in words like khleb or Kharkov , we just say chleb for bread, ch is like just h

♂

Jun 23, 09, 03:58 #52

PennBoy:

question nathan in Ukrainian or Russian is the K silent or do you pernounce it in words like khleb or Kharkov , we just say chleb for bread, ch is like just h

Yes, "kh" in Ukrainian (English) = "ch" in Polish. "K" is silent. So you would read it as "cholod", correct. Little correction: the city's name is Kharkiv (Charkiv) and khlib (chlib) if you are interested in Ukrainian pronunciation. :)

SashaThreads: 2 Posts: 1,558 Joined: Apr 19, 08 ♂	Jun 23, 09, 06:43 #53
PennBoy: we just say chleb for bread, ch is like just h chleb in Russian is "hleb". The sound "ch" merges to one letter "х".

♂

Jun 23, 09, 22:37 #54

Nathan:

Thanx Nathan and Sasha, i knew i was right, i heard some idiot German in a war documentary say khleb and khlebushka for bread pernouncing the K, i thought it was the same as in Polish.

Jihozapad

Jun 24, 09, 00:02 #55

southern:

The Poles tend to keep several of the vowels but they add some sounds like cz,sz which add consonants thus making the language sound again syncopated but more rounded than czech.Because if you don't have vowels where will the ton be?

Sounds like cz, sz,rz in Polish are represented by Č, Š and ř in Czech; what makes Czech sound different to Polish is the strong emphasis on the first syllable, and the use of elongated sounds like the ý in "Český".

The lack of vowels isn't a problem for us Slavic language speakers, I can definitely "feel" the missing vowels in Strč prst skrz krk (przełóż palec przez gardło/stick your finger through your throat), haha :)

PennBoyThreads: 148 Posts: 3,273 Joined: Dec 7, 08 ♂	Jun 24, 09, 02:50 #56
southern: The Czechs and Poles tend to cut the vowels while Russians say them.For example nazdravi in czech nazdarovie in russian. I dunno who said that Czech and Polish is similar, i've heard them talk dozens of times and i see almost no similarity, i understand much more Russian than Czech

Jihozapad

Jun 24, 09, 18:41 #57

PennBoy:

I dunno who said that Czech and Polish is similar, i've heard them talk dozens of times and i see almost no similarity, i understand much more Russian than Czech

Experts agree that there is some mutual intelligibility, but the emphasis is definitely on some. However, this is mainly in lower register speech.

Even then, there is a lot of difference, and false friends always get in the way - Tlustá dívka may not be a nice thing to say around a Czech woman, but tłusta dziwka is far worse in Polish! :)

Even basic words for things like tea, ticket and goodbye are totally different.

It's a great language, and the Czechs are much more fun than Poles, imo (ooo, controversial :) ) - and I speak as a Pole! ;)

Can't comment on the Ukrainian language because my Mum wouldn't even let me hang around with Ukrainian kids.

♀

Sep 10, 09, 16:29 #58

I am a Polish American that can speak and understand Polish. I have friends who are Ukranian. I can understand some words to get the gest of what is being said but if it is written it looks like Russian so I would never be able to read it or even sound it out as I can Polish. If spoken similar to Polish more than Russian yet some Russian words are close to Polish also if you listen closely. Same as Spanish and Italian are similar in some cases yet not. (I also detect a feeling Ukranians feel they are better than a Pole does this show in EU)

violetka

Sep 16, 09, 07:05 #59

rdywenur

I am half Polish and half Russian. Admittedly, I was exposed to the Polish language much more than the Russian, as I was born in Poland and my father (whose family is the Russian side) also grew up in Poland, so I had pretty much no chance to speak Russian.

I started learning it about a year ago on and off. I find it easy to grasp. I find the vocabulary is quite similar and the grammar is similar in many aspects as well. Honestly speaking, the linguistic divide, meaning, between western slavic languages and eastern slavic languages, is faulty in my opinion. It is more political than anything!

I find it much easier to understand Russian than Czech. I find Ukrainian and Belorussian right in the middle between Polish and Russian.

I also have to agree with you rdywenur, that I feel Ukrainians also have something against Poland. Strange really, since historically speaking, what we now know as Ukraine was Poland. There was no Ukraine in existence, and the language is technically a dialect of Polish fused with Russian. If you do some background studying you will find that I'm not bullshitting.

Same goes with Belorussia, which was a Polish territory until annexed by the Russian empire.

I think politics and especially nationalists or people who are close minded and extremely egotistical when it comes to their country, are denying these facts and believing only what they want to hear.

Whatever way you look at it, we're all Slavic so it doesn't really matter. Either way we'll all find a way to understand each other better than anyone else can ;)

FRANCUSKA	Dec 25, 09, 09:16 #60
No wiecze co? Wy wszyscy spendzacze za dużo czasu na tym tematcze. If you're Ukrainian , Russian or any of the other aforementioned races than, CONGRATULATIONS! your language is similar to Polish.