WISŁA or VISTULA??

rychlikThreads: 51 Posts: 446 Joined: Aug 6, 08 ♂	Aug 12, 10, 19:39 #1
Why is it spelled Vistula in English? It's Wisla and not hard to spell or pronounce.

pgtxThreads: 49 Posts: 6,327 Joined: Feb 14, 09 MEMBER ♀	Aug 12, 10, 19:43 #2
rychlik: Vistula oh yeah... rychlik: It's Wisla and not hard to spell or pronounce. you tell them!!! lol

zetigrekThreads: 59 Posts: 2,709 Joined: May 20, 10 ♂	Edited by: zetigrek Aug 12, 10, 20:48 #3
rychlik: Why is it spelled Vistula in English? It's Wisla and not hard to spell or pronounce. because it's from latin? why in polish we say Londyn instead of London? London isn't hard do pronounce ;) I think in polish we have far more polish versions of geaografical objects thatn you in english. Tamiza = Thames Sekwana = Seine Dunaj = Danube

NorthMancPolakThreads: 6 Posts: 708 Joined: Jun 13, 10 ♂	Aug 12, 10, 22:22 #4
rychlik: Why is it spelled Vistula in English? It's Wisla and not hard to spell or pronounce. It's just the way the English decided to pronounce it. Praha isn't difficult to pronounce for Poles, so why do Poles call Prague "Praga"? ;) lol

delphiandomineThreads: 42 Posts: 9,954 Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ [Suspended]	Edited by: delphiandomine Aug 12, 10, 22:31 #5
rychlik: It's Wisla Wrong, it's Wisła! Completely different word! Anyway, it's just the way it is. Why is Milan (not difficult to say) Mediolan to the Poles? Just is. Isn't the term "Pekin" still used in Polish too?

♂

Edited by: andrei Aug 13, 10, 10:07 #6

NorthMancPolak:

Praha isn't difficult to pronounce for Poles, so why do Poles call Prague "Praga"? ;) lol

Bad example... "H" in the Czech language is the same sound as the "G" in Polish... So the pronunctation of Prague in both languages is similar if not the same...

EDIT:
Ok nevermind me... They're not the same sound :p ,my bad...
though the "H" in Czech is used similarly in words as the "G" in Polish...

plk123Threads: 30 Posts: 6,412 Joined: Aug 29, 07 ♂	Aug 13, 10, 10:19 #7
rychlik: It's Wisla and not hard to spell or pronounce. no it's not.. WisŁa

zetigrekThreads: 59 Posts: 2,709 Joined: May 20, 10 ♂	Aug 13, 10, 11:26 #8
andrei: EDIT: Ok nevermind me... They're not the same sound :p ,my bad... though the "H" in Czech is used similarly in words as the "G" in Polish... So how they read Praha?

convexThreads: 46 Posts: 7,185 Joined: Nov 25, 09 ♂	Edited by: convex Aug 13, 10, 11:38 #9
zetigrek: why in polish we say Londyn instead of London? London isn't hard do pronounce ;) Berlin and Chicago stay the same, but Munich and New York change. Is strange :)

zetigrekThreads: 59 Posts: 2,709 Joined: May 20, 10 ♂	Aug 13, 10, 11:42 #10
convex: Chicago How is the proper way of pronouncing Chicago? Szikago or Czikago?

convexThreads: 46 Posts: 7,185 Joined: Nov 25, 09 ♂	Aug 13, 10, 11:47 #11
we say "szikago" down south

♂

Edited by: andrei Aug 13, 10, 12:52 #12

zetigrek:

So how they read Praha?

I think that similar as we with the exception that they read the "H" just as a Ethnic Silesian would spoke our "H". So it's not exactly our "H" but isn't also our "G", I don't think we use such sound in our alphabet.

Anyway... I'm not a linguist and can be wrong on a lot of matters concerning languages. So I corrected myself in my earlier post because I thought that it could be the same sound (as both are close to each other and the Czech use the "H" just as we use "G" in words... Hora - Góra, Praha - Praga, koho/čeho? - kogo/czego? and so on...), but I found out that it's a different sound so I was wrong.

zetigrekThreads: 59 Posts: 2,709 Joined: May 20, 10 ♂	Aug 13, 10, 12:55 #13
andrei: So it's not exactly our "H" but isn't also our "G", I don't think we use such sound in our alphabet. like "gh"?

andreiThreads: - Posts: 25 Joined: Jul 31, 10 ♂	Aug 13, 10, 13:00 #14
zetigrek: like "gh"? Yes. Exactly like that.

kondziorThreads: 2 Posts: 441 Joined: Oct 16, 09 ♂	Aug 13, 10, 13:07 #15
As well you can ask why Italy=Włochy, Hungary=Węgry, or my personal favorite Niemcy=Germany=Deutschland...

zetigrekThreads: 59 Posts: 2,709 Joined: May 20, 10 ♂	Aug 13, 10, 15:00 #16
kondzior: Niemcy=Germany=Deutschland =L'Allemagne Btw. I see that in England there is used sometimes name Anglia in some institution names. Why's that?

NorthMancPolakThreads: 6 Posts: 708 Joined: Jun 13, 10 ♂	Aug 13, 10, 23:43 #17
andrei: Yes. Exactly like that. No, not like that at all. To pronounce it "in Polish", it would have to be written Pracha, not Pragha.

♂

Aug 14, 10, 10:31 #18

NorthMancPolak:

To pronounce it "in Polish", it would have to be written Pracha, not Pragha.

Well in modern Polish, Praha and Pracha would sound the same. But Czech h and ch are very different. The main difference is that h is voiced (llike d, b and g) while ch is unvoiced (like t, p and k).

It's also different from the Ukrainian or Belarussian g (which are like the Greek gamma) or spanish g between vowels.

In summary :

Polish g = voiced velar stop

Ukrainian, Belarussian g = voiced velar fricative (pronounced at the same place in the throat as Polish g but the throat remains open and doesn't close as it does in Polish)

Czech h = voiced glottal (further back in the throat than Polish h or ch) fricative/approximant.

rychlikThreads: 51 Posts: 446 Joined: Aug 6, 08 ♂	Aug 14, 10, 22:49 #19
Ok ok guys. You got me :)

plk123Threads: 30 Posts: 6,412 Joined: Aug 29, 07 ♂	Edited by: plk123 Aug 15, 10, 07:05 #20
zetigrek: How is the proper way of pronouncing Chicago? Szikago or Czikago? szykago

skysoulmateThreads: 41 Posts: 3,039 Joined: Jan 10, 10 ♂	Aug 15, 10, 10:00 #21
zetigrek: How is the proper way of pronouncing Chicago? Szikago or Czikago? Obaraq for Chicago and Pelosistan for Kaalifornia ;)

Lyzko	Aug 21, 10, 17:58 #22
Wisła = die Weichsel Nearly every country nationalizes foreign place names to suit their peculiar pronunciation idiocynracies!

MareGaeaThreads: 45 Posts: 5,527 Joined: Feb 6, 08 ♂	Aug 21, 10, 18:13 #23
The Dutch used to call the Wisla the Wijsel. But nowadays they use either Weichsel, Vistula or Wisla. I wonder how Poles would pronounce Tietjerkstradeel or Emmercompascuum. :) >^..^< M-G (tiens)

zetigrekThreads: 59 Posts: 2,709 Joined: May 20, 10 ♂	Aug 21, 10, 19:35 #24
MareGaea: Tietjerkstradeel Tiet-jer-sztra-del? MareGaea: Emmercompascuum E-mer-kom-pas-kum? What's the problem? ;P

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂	Aug 21, 10, 19:52 #25
What's wrong with Weichsel?

♂

Edited by: MareGaea Aug 21, 10, 20:01 #26

zetigrek:

Tiet-jer-sztra-del?

:) actually you would pronounce it like this: Ticzerkstradeel (long e at the end, like in hey; the last S is just a plain S-sound)

zetigrek:

E-mer-kom-pas-kum?

Em mer kom pas küum (with the first U as high U like in German Flüstern and the last U as a short e, like in ehm)

Now try to pronounce it :) Really would like to hear you pronounce that high U :)

Edit: now try the following words: verwennerij, verwijdering and tuinarchitekt.

Edit 2: oh and this one is really nasty for non-Dutch: voortschrijdend and zeilzijde :)

Bratwurst Boy:

What's wrong with Weichsel?

Nothing as such, except that it's German - there are also some probs with Warschau instead of Warsaw.

>^..^<

M-G (tiens - there's pasta in the kitchen)

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂	Aug 21, 10, 20:05 #27
MareGaea: Nothing as such, except that it's German - there are also some probs with Warschau instead of Warsaw. It's easier on the tongue....for me...I think that should count! pouts

MareGaeaThreads: 45 Posts: 5,527 Joined: Feb 6, 08 ♂	Edited by: MareGaea Aug 21, 10, 20:09 #28
Bratwurst Boy: pouts I said: there's PASTA in the kitchen. Go eat your sadness away. :) for Zed Ygrek: schuijne nauwlettendheid schroothoop taaltechnische schaamte rakelt hoedanigheid en hoedanigheden neuzelen negentig nieuwe fietsreuzen :) >^..^< M-G (try)

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂	Aug 21, 10, 20:19 #29
MareGaea: I said: there's PASTA in the kitchen. Go eat your sadness away. munches pouting ;)

Lyzko	Aug 22, 10, 22:25 #30
Mare, Scheveningenaar schilders schilderen verschillene Scheveningenaar-:))) Or let the Dutch tongue attempt Chrąszcz brzmi w trcicinie..... Oooops, miswrote the last word. Paarden me (he-he!!)

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