Word order and swearing in Polish

MrBubblesThreads: 13 Posts: 768 Joined: Nov 13, 07 ♂	Feb 2, 09, 07:55 #1
Is there any difference between: Kurwa co ty robisz? Co ty kurwa robisz? Co ty robisz kurwa? Are they all possible, and if so is there a difference?

peter_olsztynThreads: 8 Posts: 760 Joined: Apr 18, 07 ♂	Feb 2, 09, 13:20 #2
MrBubbles: Are they all possible? yes MrBubbles: is there a difference? no

MrBubblesThreads: 13 Posts: 768 Joined: Nov 13, 07 ♂	Feb 3, 09, 14:57 #3
But there must be a difference if they are different sentences

osiolThreads: 59 Posts: 4,714 Joined: Jul 25, 07 ♂	Feb 3, 09, 15:07 #4
MrBubbles: Co ty kurwa robisz? Not sure, but I have the feeling this one works best as a sentence.

MrBubblesThreads: 13 Posts: 768 Joined: Nov 13, 07 ♂	Feb 3, 09, 15:21 #5
Looks to me more like 'What the fuck are you doing!', while the others are "What are you doing, you fucker"

esekThreads: 5 Posts: 269 Joined: Jun 3, 08 ♂	Feb 3, 09, 15:26 #6
MrBubbles: But there must be a difference if they are different sentences the difference is more or less exactly the same as here: fuck, what are you doing? what the fuck are you doing? what are you doing, fuck?

MrBubblesThreads: 13 Posts: 768 Joined: Nov 13, 07 ♂	Feb 3, 09, 15:30 #7
esek: fuck, what are you doing? what the fuck are you doing? what are you doing, fuck? Well, I think fuck in sentence 2 intensifies the 'what' whereas in sentences 1 and 3 it's more like a seperate sentence - "Fuck! What...." and "...doing? Fuck!" Would I be on the right track?

♂

Feb 3, 09, 15:42 #8

MrBubbles:

Well, I think fuck in sentence 2 intensifies the 'what' whereas in sentences 1 and 3 it's more like a seperate sentence - "Fuck! What...." and "...doing? Fuck!" Would I be on the right track?

this sentence in the middle is the strongest one i think (and the most grammatically correct) :

co ty kurwa robisz - what the fuck are you doing

the other two are also sometimes heard, but they may come from a guy who use kurwa (or fuck) in every other sentence... like.... fuck, i was at home and found nothing in the fridge, so i went to this fucking shop, met my fucking neighbor, fuck he is weirdo, and bought some food... :D

well...buy maybe some other people would be able to explain it better :D What is the most important these sentences means almost the same thing...

MrBubblesThreads: 13 Posts: 768 Joined: Nov 13, 07 ♂	Feb 3, 09, 15:53 #9
It feels more natural to me too. In English the swear word often gets placed before the stressed syllable / word and I was wondering if it coul dbe the same in Polish.

SeanBMThreads: 41 Posts: 8,727 Joined: Mar 10, 08 ♂	Edited by: SeanBM Feb 3, 09, 16:24 #10
I think most of the young gentlemen round these parts, say it like this. Kurwa co ty Kurwa robisz, Kurwa?

VincentThreads: 15 Posts: 1,707 Joined: Sep 9, 07 ♂ [Moderator]	Feb 3, 09, 16:33 #11
SeanBM: Kurwa co ty Kurwa robisz, Kurwa? Just a daff question from someone learning polish. Why is there two "you's in that sentence? ty and robisz?

SeanBMThreads: 41 Posts: 8,727 Joined: Mar 10, 08 ♂	Feb 3, 09, 16:38 #12
Vincent: Why is there two "you's in that sentence? ty and robisz? You can say Co Robisz or co ty robisz. It was explained to me that there is no real reason except rhythm but i am sure someone more knowledgeable than myself can explain it better.

♀

Edited by: ladykangaroo Feb 3, 09, 18:13 #13

Vincent:

Why is there two "you's in that sentence? ty and robisz?

Generally "second you" - "ty" shows surprise / annoyment / sometimes happiness. "Co robisz" is just a regular question, shows that you are interested in someone's actions, you may ask that for no particular reason ("what are you doing tonight?", "whassup").
"Co Ty robisz" often indicates emotional nuance. That's something a husband could say to his wife on his early return from business trip :D

From grammatical point both sentences are correct and acceptable.

And "kurwa" can be put almost anywhere in the sentence and will work fine there.

♂

Feb 3, 09, 18:19 #14

SeanBM:

Kurwa co ty Kurwa robisz, Kurwa?

SeanBM FTW! That's pretty much the way 12 year olds talk now most of the time in Poland.
I'm old enough that kids talking that way is just .... sad.

The tragedy is that Poland used to have a complex and powerful system of swearing and it was possible to actually shock people with original and creative combinations.

But unimaginative overuse of a few words (kurwa, jebany, pierdolic, chuj etc) have degraded the process and robbed the words of any real power. Now they just sound cheap and ugly, rather like Soviet made shoes.

VincentThreads: 15 Posts: 1,707 Joined: Sep 9, 07 ♂ [Moderator]	Feb 3, 09, 18:20 #15
SeanBM: It was explained to me that there is no real reason except rhythm but i am sure someone more knowledgeable than myself can explain it better Thanks Sean ladykangaroo: From gramatical point both sentences are correct and acceptable Thanks also for a great explanation:)

osiolThreads: 59 Posts: 4,714 Joined: Jul 25, 07 ♂	Feb 3, 09, 18:52 #16
Can any of the milder forms be inserted? I've only really noticed kurna being used as a stand-alone word.

ladykangarooThreads: - Posts: 187 Joined: Jan 2, 09 ♀	Feb 3, 09, 19:11 #17
kurcze, kurka, kurde or "cholera" - damn

cjjcThreads: 37 Posts: 463 Joined: Jul 26, 08 ♂	Feb 3, 09, 19:18 #18
ladykangaroo: kurde From all the people I've met this is the only one I've heard. Actually thinking about it I have heard "kurcze" I have also heard "Ja pierdikam" and realised it wasn't bad. Kinda like "Bloody hell" I guess.

osiolThreads: 59 Posts: 4,714 Joined: Jul 25, 07 ♂	Feb 3, 09, 19:34 #19
My question was about using those milder words in a sentence like the one at the start of this thread. Would it sound natural? As far as I can tell, they probably wouldn't, but then maybe I only ever talk to coarse individuals.

ladykangarooThreads: - Posts: 187 Joined: Jan 2, 09 ♀	Feb 4, 09, 05:12 #20
osiol: Would it sound natural? It would :) It wouldn't be natural only if you were raging angry, you do not use mild replacements then of course.

MrBubblesThreads: 13 Posts: 768 Joined: Nov 13, 07 ♂	Feb 4, 09, 10:46 #21
Vincent: Why is there two "you's in that sentence? Well now you mention it, it could also be emphasis ie "What are you doing"? Rather than someone else"

♂

Feb 5, 09, 21:30 #22

MrBubbles:

Kurwa co ty robisz?
Co ty kurwa robisz?
Co ty robisz kurwa?

Hmm, I wouldn't dare to say the first and the last one to a female. :o) "Kurwa, co ty robisz?!" may sound like you call her a whore, unless you really press it: Kuuurwa! Co ty robisz?! :D

Mafketis:

The tragedy is that Poland used to have a complex and powerful system of swearing and it was possible to actually shock people with original and creative combinations. But unimaginative overuse of a few words (kurwa, jebany, pierdolic, chuj etc) have degraded the process and robbed the words of any real power. Now they just sound cheap and ugly, rather like Soviet made shoes.

It's the same in every language, I suppose. Even English, which is really poor when it comes to swearing, could still use "fancy swearings" like: "Glorious piece of a heavenly shit!" But most people have no creativity these days, they are just sad and blatant...

Easy_TerranThreads: 4 Posts: 473 Joined: Mar 31, 08 ♂	Feb 5, 09, 23:42 #23
Bondi: "Kurwa, co ty robisz?!" may sound like you call her a whore No. "Kurwo, to ty robisz" - yes, that's exactly it, calling a girl a whore. peter_olsztyn: Kurwa co ty robisz? Co ty kurwa robisz? Co ty robisz kurwa? Fuck, what you're doing? What the fuck are you doing? What are you doing for fuck sake?

ladykangarooThreads: - Posts: 187 Joined: Jan 2, 09 ♀	Feb 5, 09, 23:52 #24
Bondi: "Kurwa, co ty robisz?!" may sound like you call her a whore Not at all, the sentence would have to start with "Kurwo" / "Ty kurwo"...

♀

Feb 6, 09, 00:05 #25

ladykangaroo:

Not at all, the sentence would have to start with "Kurwo" / "Ty kurwo"...

On paper, yes.
In real life, specially when yelled/ said strongly you'll get slapped before the ending registers. The first and third especially.
I'd suggest just omitting using kurwa/kurwo when directing it at a girl altogether. Do holery (sp?) is almost as strong... far less slap-friendly.
And yes, I know many a Polish female who'll slap first, contemplate endings later... eventually perchance apologize.

Easy_TerranThreads: 4 Posts: 473 Joined: Mar 31, 08 ♂	Feb 6, 09, 00:20 #26
Elssha: On paper, yes. On paper AND in real life. Kurwa and kurwo - two different things (well, in this case) Głupia kurwa - a stupid whore Głupia kurwo - you stupid whore

ladykangarooThreads: - Posts: 187 Joined: Jan 2, 09 ♀	Edited by: ladykangaroo Feb 6, 09, 00:29 #27
Elssha: And yes, I know many a Polish female who'll slap first It seems that you might know Polish females who barely speak Polish but read extensive passages written by divine marquis... Elssha: Do cholery (sp?) is almost as strong Oh crap, you may be pretty damn right, pardon my French :D

McCoyThreads: 46 Posts: 1,756 Joined: Jul 3, 08 ♂	Edited by: McCoy Feb 6, 09, 00:35 #28
Easy_Terran: Głupia kurwa - a stupid whore Głupia kurwo - you stupid whore what a nice topic. you can insult women and they still think that youre discussing the linguistic issues. just kidding. całuje rączki pieknych pań ;)

Easy_TerranThreads: 4 Posts: 473 Joined: Mar 31, 08 ♂	Edited by: Easy_Terran Feb 6, 09, 00:45 #29
McCoy: they still think that youre discussing the linguistic issues. ROTFL :))) całuję rączki pięknych pań

peter_olsztynThreads: 8 Posts: 760 Joined: Apr 18, 07 ♂	Feb 6, 09, 00:55 #30
Elssha: In real life, specially when yelled/ said strongly you'll get slapped before the ending registers. The first and third especially. Kurwa means nothing just like yyy or aaa or exclamation mark or comma and native speaker can feel the difference.

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