"Zaraz wracam" - Why not "zaraz wrócę" ?

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Nov 2, 07, 00:44 #1

Czesc !

I have a great doubt in this sentence. I'm studying Perfective and Imperfective verbs in Polish.

Imperfectives verbs describes the moment, what is going on, the on going, right ? Like robić - mieć - kupować and so on.

Perfective verbs describes changes from one situation to another, like: Zaraz zrobię śniadanie. Right ?

So, why do you write Zaraz wracam, using an imperfective verb "wracać" and not a Perfective one "wrócić" ? Imperfective verbs are zrobić - napisać - wypić and so on.

Can somebody explain me this exception ? Is it an exception ?

I hope you can understand me because nienawidzę kiedy nie rozumiem !

Thanks a lot !

ellaThreads: - Posts: 56 Joined: Mar 10, 07 ♀	Nov 2, 07, 01:40 #2
Quoting: Rummenigge So, why do you write Zaraz wracam, I'm not an expert , but "zaraz wracam" is used in signal language (declarative)- it's a written sign, similar to "open" (czynne) or "closed" (zamkniete).

metaxa357Threads: - Posts: 18 Joined: Oct 22, 07 ♀	Nov 2, 07, 04:29 #3
You know, it's like when you say: "I'm going for holiday next month". So although it's in the future, you use the present tense. The same here.

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Nov 2, 07, 09:46 #4

It is rather the same thing as prosze kawe and porosze kawe where even poprosze kawe can in fact be used now in the present tense although technically speaking it is a one off future action. When I am in the kitchen making a cup of coffee and my wife says to me 'ja poprosze kawe'. Here Zaraz wroce would be technically correct as you will be coming, in the future, in this dirrection, as a one off act.

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Nov 2, 07, 10:08 #5

Quoting: Michal

It is rather the same thing as prosze kawe and porosze kawe where even poprosze kawe can in fact be used now in the present tense although technically speaking it is a one off future action. When I am in the kitchen making a cup of coffee and my wife says to me 'ja poprosze kawe'. Here Zaraz wroce would be technically correct as you will be coming, in the future, in this dirrection, as a one off act.

Michal?? Are you ok???!!!

ellaThreads: - Posts: 56 Joined: Mar 10, 07 ♀	Edited by: ella Nov 2, 07, 10:11 #6
Quoting: metaxa357 You know, it's like when you say: "I'm going for holiday next month". So although it's in the future, you use the present tense. The same here. Yes ..but there are some (known to others) signs to explain it...why. And the signs don't need to be put in any "tenses"! Like a road signs.

MichalThreads: - Posts: 2,408 Joined: Feb 27, 07 ♂	Nov 2, 07, 10:45 #7
Quoting: ella Michal?? Are you ok???!!! Yes, I am fine thank you, and you?

MichalThreads: - Posts: 2,408 Joined: Feb 27, 07 ♂	Nov 2, 07, 13:00 #8
Therefore, zaraz wroce is correct meaning I will be back in a minute.

polishmaster	Nov 2, 07, 13:57 #9
"Zaraz wracam." = I'm coming back soon. "Zaraz wrócę." = I'll be (coming) back soon. "Zaraz będę." = I'll be back soon. But... just don't think too much about this. The Polish language has a lot of phrases that are inexplicable even to Polish natives. Just use "zaraz wracam" or "zaraz wrócę". After some time You'll FEEL the difference. Good luck.

MichalThreads: - Posts: 2,408 Joined: Feb 27, 07 ♂	Nov 2, 07, 16:33 #10
Yes, just as my example earlier ja prosze kawe or ja poprosze kawe-the same thing in different words.

RummeniggeThreads: 2 Posts: 3 Joined: Jul 28, 07 ♂	Nov 2, 07, 23:24 #11
OK. Polishmaster, thanks a lot :) Polish is really a difficult language but it's worth to learn it. And I thank you all to answer my question. Dziekuje Ella - Michal - metaxa357. Now I can continue !!!!

sledzThreads: 29 Posts: 3,202 Joined: Sep 19, 06 ♂	Edited by: sledz Nov 3, 07, 03:05 #12
Quoting: Rummenigge Zaraz wracam that is was it tells me gadu gadu when somebody leaves for a bit

MichalThreads: - Posts: 2,408 Joined: Feb 27, 07 ♂	Nov 3, 07, 08:52 #13
Zaraz wracam sounds good to me too.

ankaaaaaaa	Nov 28, 07, 12:50 #14
no because it does describe the moment what is going on....i ;m going to be coming back. /action of coming back/ cause when you say zaraz wroce it means that you are back there

plk123Threads: 30 Posts: 6,410 Joined: Aug 29, 07 ♂	Nov 28, 07, 17:02 #15
Quoting: Rummenigge "Zaraz wracam" - Why not "zaraz wrócę" ? present tense - future tense

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Nov 28, 07, 18:31 #16

Quoting: ella

"zaraz wracam" is used in signal language

yup.i closed my shop for a few minutes(went to the loo?) and will come back soon.
zaraz wroce.picture the situation:your mate wants you to pop in to his flat to do something.you are busy with washing.your wife says;i don't want you to be there all day because we are busy,you know that?you answer;don't worry honey,i won't be there for long,zaraz wroce/bede z powrotem.
i hope it will help.

Bednar87Threads: 1 Posts: 3 Joined: Aug 20, 07 ♂	Nov 29, 07, 13:10 #17
I hope he finishes the project by midnight. I bet he doesn't come back on time. Why present simple? For the same reason you say "zaraz wracam". NB: "zaraz wrócę" sounds like a promise to me. (zaraz wracam - I'm merely stating a fact)

jasper

Jan 17, 10, 16:02 #18

You know while I'm reading this topic I think how different Polish is in foreigner's eyes. I'm Polish and I'd never think that there are stuff in Polish like Michał said:

Quoting: Michal
It is rather the same thing as prosze kawe and porosze kawe where even poprosze kawe can in fact be used now in the present tense although technically speaking it is a one off future action. When I am in the kitchen making a cup of coffee and my wife says to me 'ja poprosze kawe'. Here Zaraz wroce would be technically correct as you will be coming, in the future, in this dirrection, as a one off act.

Btw, do you, Englishmen, know that you've got 13 tenses???
I mean in Polish there are only three but I heard that for foreign languages teachers of Polish "found out" more than only przeszły, przyszły i teraźniejszy?

SzwedwPolsceThreads: 12 Posts: 1,915 Joined: Feb 21, 09 ♂	Edited by: SzwedwPolsce Jan 17, 10, 16:05 #19
It's common in many languages (also English) to use present tense to express something in the future, in some situations like these.

frdThreads: 8 Posts: 1,956 Joined: Feb 3, 09 ♂	Edited by: frd Jan 17, 10, 16:09 #20
jasper: Btw, do you, Englishmen, know that you've got 13 tenses??? I'm pretty sure this guy Michal is polish. He always adds something random to a random thread that adds little to the discussion. I wouldn't pay much attention to his posts if I were you. If he was english it would be really strange for him to speak so surely and so irrelevantly at the same time about everything.

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Jan 17, 10, 16:50 #21

Michal:

prosze kawe

now this is simply wrong. Bad Polish, bad grammar.
Prosić kogoś o coś, so: proszę matkę o kawę.
Proszę kawę - o co??? Can you ask coffee for anything?
The correct version is poproszę kawę or proszę o kawę.

frd:

I'm pretty sure this guy Michal is polish.

No, he's not. He's making too many non-native mistakes,and I don't mean the one with coffee, which is actually quite common among Polish native speakers.

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Jan 17, 10, 20:25 #22

Rummenigge:

So, why do you write Zaraz wracam, using an imperfective verb "wracać" and not a Perfective one "wrócić"?

For one thing, you can't use a perfective form in the present tense, using the perfective form immediately turns the expression into one in the future tense.

But the interesting question is in the title of your post: "why not?", in other words: when do we use "zaraz wracam" as opposed to "zaraz wrócę".

There's is no difference in meaning, but there is one in usage. Your question has reminded me of the announcement often seen on the doors of small state-owned shops (most of them were such at that time) in Poland in the communist times: "Wyszłam na pocztę. Zaraz wracam." Frankly speaking, I would have been surprised if a shop assistant had written: "Wyszłam na pocztę. Zaraz wrócę." This announcement was a perfect example of the social code, and its true meaning to any prospective customers was: I am now busy with my own private matters, so I had to go. You may think what you like, but it is pretty unlikely (almost certain!) that I'll be back soon, so please be so kind and go somewhere else. And that brings us to the real difference in usage (although there is none in meaning): you will typically say "zaraz wrócę" when you refer to a rather immediate future, and the receiver of the information is able to check on the time between your statement and the actual fact expressed in it. The lady in the shop would have never say that as this would sound ridiculous to her customers who knew she might be back in her shop just fifteen minutes before the closing time at 6 o'clock p.m., even if she put her announcement up at the very noon.

jasper

Jan 17, 10, 23:31 #23

I'm pretty sure this guy Michal is polish. He always adds something random to a random thread that adds little to the discussion. I wouldn't pay much attention to his posts if I were you. If he was english it would be really strange for him to speak so surely and so irrelevantly at the same time about everything.

Actually that question wasn't to him (and I know his Polish: Michał is a Polish name) but I wondered if people whose english is motherland language have consciousness that they manipulate thirteen tenses!

jonniThreads: 26 Posts: 4,189 Joined: Nov 27, 07 ♂	Jan 17, 10, 23:34 #24
jasper: english is motherland language have consciousness that they manipulate thirteen tenses Most people see it as three or four tenses with different aspects and voices.

marqoz

Feb 4, 10, 11:45 #25

Ziemowit is almost perfectly right.

But his remarks on social code from communist era are only one example of usage.

Zaraz wracam - is a definition of state, you may call it a continuous aspect; a person writing in such way suggests:
1) he's just around corner or
2) he doesn't exactly know when he'll be back or
3) he doesn't want you to check the time of return and rise complaints

- because it doesn't define exact time of his return and it can also give a suggestion that while he's out - please - treat him as if he's still here.

Zaraz wrócę - sounds artificially or maybe slangish (and rarely used) in this context, because future tense here in a perfect aspect should have exact time of return, otherwise it will have no useful meaning.
Zaraz is very indefinite, it can be just 1 second, 1 minute or maybe 10 minutes (it depends whether in sleepy village or big city center). So in such case it is better to say about state ie. in continuous aspect.
On the other hand wrócę sounds very well in the sentence: Wrócę o 15:00 - I'll be back at five o'clock.

However these slight differences are very elusive and you can see also: Wracam o 15:00. Languages aren't as strict in usage as most of foreign language pupils (including me) would like them to be.

Marcin_K	Feb 4, 10, 23:41 #26
Marqoz is correct, very well written. It happens quite often in Polish that we use present tense to talk about something in the future. This is common also in other languages.

KwicThreads: - Posts: 4 Joined: Feb 10, 10 ♂	Feb 10, 10, 21:23 #27
Damn, that was some hard question :P I'm Polish and I don't know if I would know the answer!

SzwedwPolsceThreads: 12 Posts: 1,915 Joined: Feb 21, 09 ♂	Edited by: SzwedwPolsce Feb 11, 10, 17:28 #28
What do you think sounds most natural? a) Jutro jadę do Anglii/Warszawy. b) Jutro pojadę do Anglii/Warszawy.

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Feb 11, 10, 19:14 #29

SzwedwPolsce:

What do you think sounds most natural?

a) Jutro jadę do Anglii/Warszawy.
b) Jutro pojadę do Anglii/Warszawy.

a) definitely - I think it is quite similar in English

pojadę seems more natural for some remote( or uncertain) future

kiedyś napewno pojadę do Anglii - some day I will surely go to England
do Anglii to może w przyszłym roku pojedziemy - We will possibly go to England in the next year

SzwedwPolsceThreads: 12 Posts: 1,915 Joined: Feb 21, 09 ♂	Edited by: SzwedwPolsce Feb 11, 10, 20:24 #30
gumishu: pojadę seems more natural for some remote( or uncertain) future Interesting aspect. Probably the same applies to the difference between zaraz wracam and zaraz wrócę. Present tense expresses a well-defined future action, and future tense a more diffuse action. Interesting.

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