Goverment is the problem!

celinski wrote:
OK lets say USA did not spend the money in Iraq, do you think they would take that money and give it to the US citizens?

lesser wrote:
Democracy or not, people will always be slaves as long as they don't understand that as Ronald Reagan said "Government is not a solution to our problem, government is the problem." If you ask for government help, you ask for troubles. You invite them to your life, to your home and this guest turning into parasite and have no intention to leave you alone.

The point is that government should not give any money to the people but simply should not take it from those people.

celinski wrote: Thank you lesser, I see the truth is out. On the flip side of the coin, without goverment and establishment of laws society would still risk corruption of strong vs. weak. Even in remote tribal society's a structure is formed. This is where the strength of involment from citizens comes into play. We see this with the high turnout of democratic voters vs. republicans. It speaks to the power people hold yet take for granted.


Seanus wrote:
Lesser, never have I seen such a posting with such a good view, then such a bad one. The first part is very true, the govt can be like a leech, sucking ur blood.

The second part, well, sorry, have u ever heard of social security and benefits for under-priveleged people? By giving money to certain groups, these people can raise the profile of the country. I can't believe u said sth as stupid as that!!!!!!

Goverment= A nessicarry evil with temptation lurking for corruption with power.

Government is needed to provide internal and external security. Run foreign policy, be guarantee of independence of the courts. These are main purposes, one could add something but not much.



I don't really understand how do you are able to agree with first part and disagree with the second... This like confirming some theory which was empirically proved to be right and still refusing to practice it in real life.



I have heard unfortunately. This is very immoral and ineffective practice used by worshipers of constantly collapsing pseudo-economic system called socialism.

If people get money for nothing they will be demoralized very quickly. Poor people have very good motivation to work to improve their wealth. While those poor people who receive money just because they are poor (and this is enough to archive good standard of living ) have very weak motivation to work on their own. Instead to work they wait for social grants, with time they think that they really deserve this because they are poor. They are not even grateful, they demand it and they demand more. So this is very ineffective system and the rest of honest taxpayers are simply robbed by such people and bureaucrats (middleman) whom take their share out of this as well.



In normal country all people have equal rights. In socialist country those people that you call under-privileged have indeed more privileges than the rest of citizens.

For those who speak Polish, excellent article of S. Michalkiewicz.
MICHALKIEWICZ

Where is this "normal country" I am moving.




First Social Security is not for nothing, they worked for this money to be put aside and investeded for their future. Second, I see the ones taking money for nothing as a learned lesson. Most of the ones living in this manner had parents that did. It is a cycle that must be broken. Unfourtunatly, poor people are not given motivation from the main place, the home. They do not see it as "demoralizing" they see it as normal. Believe me they know the in's and out's better than the goverment.

Lesser, just think about it. Less government intervention is sometimes welcome but u were looking at NO government payments to people, only taking money. Two different, irreconciliable positions.

The US used to be normal country in the past. Unfortunately bureaucracy growing all over the world, many countries introduce archaic European model and because of that they lose the chance to overtake Europe. This is exactly what European leaders want.



Government should implement all its previous agreements but the new generations should live outside of these old systems.



I have write clearly that government should not take money from people. Personal Income Tax should be abolished. Of course some small taxes must exist for mentioned in my previous post destinations.

OMG, Lesser, please tell me u r joking. What r u thinking? Many people don't see the Scottish Parliament as credible. Why not? Well, because we don't have fully independent tax raising powers. How about contributing to public services? It comes from taxpayers money. Before I started out in 1995 studying British Central and Local Government (BCLG), I saw the need for taxes. Taxes are everywhere, federal taxes, airport taxes what have u.

Don't u see that everyone has a duty to pay tax regardless of sector? (private and public). How do u think pensions are created? By going to a bank and saying, I worked my ass off for 40 years so I should get 3,000zł as a pension this month, oh, how about 5,000zł?

Next, defence of ur country. Poland has a commitment to protecting its own borders, this is shown by conscription and Army recruitment policies. How do u propose to finance this? I'm happy that some of my salary goes towards financing this.

Any form of insurance. Would u mysteriously abolish ZUS? I have more Lesser

Dont worry,he is happy living in his little bunker,probably living off road kill and praying for the day when his new furher arrives .......far right loons never have logic to back them up,just greedy paranoia and an Im all right jack mentality...pitifull really.

I have to say I am happy with the way things are going with the Scottish Government since May 2007. The SNP have reversed the closure of Accident and Emergency Units, Abolished prescription ( medicine ) charges, road tolls and student fees, frozen council tax and cut business tax. How have they done this ? By cutting Government departments and quangos.

No, absolutely not...starting under the Clintons and reaching a fever pitch during Bush's
presidency, we have seen a wholescale looting of the US treasury: the war in Iraq has cost over a trillion dollars, and you will NEVER see a penny of that accounted for...in addition, on September 10,2001, US Minister of Defense, Donald Rumsfeld announced that over $2 TRILLION in defense money was 'unaccounted for'...he gave no explanation...of course, the next day was the '9-11 event' and the story disappeared, never to be spoken of in the mainstream media...only one Congress-person, Rep, Cynthia McKinney (D-GA) confronted the issue, and Rumsfeld personally...she was then drummed out of office with various smear campaigns and 'special interest' money...we also have the spectre of wholescale looting in the banking/stock/securities sector, which had again transferred TRILLIONS out of the hands of unsuspecting US investors, into the hands of organized gangsters, through vehicles like 'hedge funds', 'derivatives' and other even more speculative financial schemes...
Government IS the problem, but even more than that, here in the US, we have seen a
virtual PRIVITIZATION of government, which means everything and everyone is for sale...
and,as is the case with many 'going out of business' sales, what remains on the showroom floor will either be sold for pennies, or is not worth buying, as it is 'cheaper than it looks'.
Of course, the Federal Reserve bank can keep printing money, but this is no long term solution...since when I was a kid, in the early 1960's, I would estimate that the US dollar has lost about 75% of it's purchasing power, meaning, what you could buy for 25cents
in 1965 would cost, at least, $1 today...and I am being conservative here.

And they want to steal English Towns!!!!

'Return to fold' call for Berwick

Elaborate please.

They want Berwick. I edited with URL

Berwick has huge Scottish influence Hairball. Although situated in England, Scots can lay heavy claim to it. Even my English friends accept this. One is from Hartlepool and he maintains that. He's a propa Geodi canny lad. I even thought Berwick was part of Scotland. I conceded that it lay in England after checking the map but other English folk don't associate with it as it is more Scottish

Thanks Hairball, although reading the link it looks like Berwick want to return to Scotland ;-)
By the way, I am all for English independance too.

That would be ok as long as Scotland remains our best friend!

Lovely town Berwick!!

Edit



NO! HE'S A MONKEY-HANGER!! : )

It wouldn't be too much of a setback for England to cede this town to Scotland. Scotland will never be England's best friend but as long as individuals get on, who cares, right?

For me it will be up to the people of Berwick. When I lived in Newcastle I used to go fishing on a boat from Berwick with the CIU club, and the boat skipper was very happy to be English. But I think personally they will be better off as Scotish!

He is a Geordie, his family moved out to Hartlepool to live but he lived in Newcastle for a long time. Where is Lesser? Hiding from his inevitable onslaught.

Alf Garnett, come out come out wherever u r

whenever Im in the borders it always tickles me how,from hexam up everyone seems Scots,and on the other side from Roxborough down everyone seems Geordie......whats all that about?:)


lol,thats ,Archie Bunker for those across the big sea :)

Just hearing on the radio that in an unofficial vote, 60% of the population of Berwick want to join Scotland. - Failte

You'd probably get a similar result in Newcastle!

Now that would be a worry ;-)

Everybody pay taxes, if you buy something, you pay tax.



I repeat once again, small taxes would be enough to fund what is really necessary.



I would abolish ZUS when elderly would pass away... Whole system is sick and self-destructing and for sure this is the biggest problem. If you don't try any serious reforms, the system will bankrupt itself.

If u buy sth u pay tax, that is what u said above Lesser. Taxes are everywhere is what I said even further above. U didn't provide an answer, just a restatement of my position.

Small taxes would not be enough. The Polish government already struggles with lack of revenue for all manner of things. However, as the Beatles said, it's getting better all the time. (Didn't I hear 'can't get much worse' in the same song? LOL, they slipped it in)

The whole system is sick? (u said) Well, u c, not really. It's sickness (health), accident, social security based etc etc. Sick is just a small part of it, hehehe. On a more serious note, I don't feel that it's self-destructing at all (though I'm no expert I confess from the outset). People make mandatory contributions as per elsewhere and it operates quite efficiently. What would u replace ZUS with Lesser? What serious reform?

Governments never really are the problem. The real problem is that we seem to have a lot of people who like to divide this world by breaking down the population into groups by attaching labels to people.

It usually start with asking questions such as: What are you? Are you a Catholic, Wiccan, Bhuddist, Protestant, Christian, Satanist, Rastafarian or an Atheïst?

My answer would be: Myself?

To me, such an answer seems simple, and true enough. Now, the problem is, that if you tend to think like me, that some people will almost automatically exclude you from their group. Or, even worse, see you as a potential threat.

I guess I'll never understand..

I've seen too much people act on group intelligence, the kind of people that will judge you without even knowing you, or without asking you any questions. I pity those who can't seem to think for themselves. So afraid of pointing that finger towards themselves. So afraid of looking in a mirror. So afraid of changes.

So is the government the problem? I don't think so. It's what you learn, teach, spread, want, or choose to believe that could become a problem.

And I'm not just talking about religion there..

What I write, this is my position.




Would be enough if they would be involved to finance what is really necessary. Polish governments consist from bunch of populist, incompetent idiots, unable and unwilling to look beyond current cadence.



How about population changes of different generations? How we will give pensions baby-boom generation if ZUS have no cash at all except from current taxpayers? ZUS is a disaster.



If this would be good solution then would be not obligatory! Currently only a freaking idiot would sign willingly such deal like they offer obligatory.

Details of the reform are a subject to discussion among experts. Nearly everything should be privatized (on auction!) and all cash must go to ZUS. Final solution would be that everybody decide personally what to do with earned money, waste or put aside to private sector. When one would pass away, money belong to his family and not everything is lost like today!!



I would wish to live in your galactic.

Please. I'm being realistic. Governments have supporters. Supporters have ideals and beliefs. Ideals and beliefs can be different and different ideals and beliefs tend to cause friction between groups of people.

Often, unnecessary.

What I'm trying to tell you is, that when people decide to think for themselves and stop trying to divide their world into their tiny spaces of good, evil, and everything inbetween, or into their camps of us and them, it becomes much easier to see common grounds.

It's so much easier to solve problems when a common ground can be found.

I see you call people populists and incompetent idiots? Well, to make such a statement is an easy thing to do but, maybe you should try to stir up a conversation between you and those incompetent idiots you're talking about?

Otherwise, nothing will change.

So, if you honestly think you have better solutions, I suggest you get in touch with a lot of people and bring those solutions to the table. Poland officially is a democratic country you know. So maybe it's not solely the government that is the problem. Maybe some people just like to complain alot, but lack vision or a motivation to make some positive changes themselves.

But, if I'm living in another galactic, fine. If you say so.

You statements are simply extremely naive. Those people don't want to talk with anybody outside their own clique. Such discussion would expose whole their emptiness. Otherwise they can continue to steal and waste taxpayers money, much better solution from their perspective.



Nearly whole Europe is officially democratic and only Ireland do the referendum.

I could easily reverse that comment by saying that your statements come across as extremely fatalistic? That such comments even show apathy to a certain extent? Basically, you're saying, they are all corrupt, they're all incompetent idiots, they're not going to talk to anyone so I accept all of this and keep silent?

That's too easy. I might sound like it sometimes, but I'm anything but naive, and I know some of them fit your description perfectly, but not all of them.



I think such statements are too nihilistic and fatal. If you want to change something, you'll have to do it from the inside. You'll have to discuss various subjects with the people who actually have an infuence on such matters. I'm naive? Okay. Fine. Atleast I won't keep my mouth shut and behave like a slave. And I do try to show a more constructive point of vieuw whenever I get the opportunity.

In my galactic, building bridges is better than to say that everything is wrong without coming up with anything constructive myself.



Exactly my point. Almost anyone who will get their paperwork straight could try to form a political party these days.