Czego V Co

vndunneThreads: 72 Posts: 340 Joined: Jan 12, 07 ♂	Mar 11, 10, 13:29 #1
Could someone tell me what the difference between these words for 'What' are? I am currently going through a polish grammar book and there are the following 2 questions: - Czego sie napijesz? - Co chcialbys zjesc? I am just wondering whe each is used. Many thanks, vincent

frdThreads: 8 Posts: 1,956 Joined: Feb 3, 09 ♂	Edited by: frd Mar 11, 10, 13:54 #2
vndunne: - Czego sie napijesz? - Co chcialbys zjesc? I'm not sure but probably first one refers to nouns in genitive case. Second one to nouns in accusative case. I know it's a stupid example but: - Czego się napijesz? Napiję się wody. - Co chciałbyś zjeść? Zjem wodę. ; )

♂

Mar 11, 10, 14:22 #3

there's an easy answer to this one.

you use czego when that particular case is required, and co in the same respect. there is a limitless number of situations where you use each of them.

you need to study Polish cases and declensions. if you're asking a question like that, you obviously have just begun studying Polish which means your next thread will be "when do I use kogo and when do I use komu?" and then "When do I use kto and when do I use kogo?"

cases, cases, cases. study them. how they work, when they happen, which verbs collocate with which case, etc. etc. And then after you get sick and tired of it and give up, it will save some people some precious typing time not having to try and explain it anymore.

ok, the last part was a little bitter, but if I had to place some bets here.....

there is no 2 cent explination for this like in English for something like, "when do I use which and when do I use who?"

♂

Mar 11, 10, 15:02 #4

Vincent

FUZZYWICKETS:

cases, cases, cases. study them. how they work, when they happen, which verbs collocate with which case, etc. etc. And then after you get sick and tired of it and give up, it will save some people some precious typing time not having to try and explain it anymore.

Totally uncalled for. If you can contribute constructively, dont bother at all. Maybe that will save you some time typing. I am aware of the cases, and i am also aware of different ways of saying 'What', 'Who' etc. However, in the example above, i was just unaware that the rflexive verb casued a certain declanation.
I just checked the title of this forum and it says 'Grammar usage', and hence felt totallly justified in asking a question.

FRD..Thanks for you assistance.

♂ [Moderator]

Mar 11, 10, 18:52 #5

FUZZYWICKETS:

it will save some people some precious typing time not having to try and explain it anymore.

If you don't want to waste your time, why bother writing anything at all in these language and grammar threads? Leave it to the good folks who enjoy explaining the Polish language.

vndunne:

I just checked the title of this forum and it says 'Grammar usage', and hence felt totallly justified in asking a question.

Of course you're fully justified asking a question on this forum and please continue to do so. Don't let the above put you off, as 99.9% of the people who answer queries on here, are always willing to help and glad to be of service. :)

FUZZYWICKETSThreads: 12 Posts: 1,999 Joined: Nov 3, 09 ♂	Mar 11, 10, 20:39 #6
it was uncalled for. to be honest, when i went back and reread your question, I realized I basically misread it. i shot from the hip and I had just drunk a Burn Energy Drink. my apologies.

AdamKadmon

Mar 11, 10, 21:31 #7

napić się (drink) - in polish this verb is a reflexive noun, which is indicated by the particle się, but it is not important here. The verb 'napić się' 'governs' the grammatical case called 'dopełniacz', that is genitive or possessive case, and the question you ask in this case is czego. Case differentiation is less important in English than in other languages e.g. Polish and German. If you happen to know the last one, then in the grammar of German there is such concept as Rektion.

zjeść (eat) - this verb governs the grammatical case called biernik, that is accusative, and the question you ask in this case is 'co'.

AdamKadmon	Mar 11, 10, 21:33 #8
Sorry, not a reflexive noun but a reflexive verb.

SzwedwPolsceThreads: 13 Posts: 1,915 Joined: Feb 21, 09 ♂	Edited by: SzwedwPolsce Mar 11, 10, 21:43 #9
THIS IS ALL YOU NEED TO KNOW: Nom. & Acc: Co Gen: Czego Dat: Czemu Instr & Loc: Czym And in your case napić się governs the genitive case.

gumishuThreads: 17 Posts: 3,943 Joined: Apr 6, 09 ♂	Mar 13, 10, 11:47 #10
it is also important to remark that although zjeść demands(governs) object in the accusative case it's negation demands genitive Nie zjem tego świństwa. - I won't eat/have that nasty stuff.

SzwedwPolsceThreads: 13 Posts: 1,915 Joined: Feb 21, 09 ♂	Edited by: SzwedwPolsce Mar 13, 10, 12:35 #11
gumishu: it is also important to remark that although zjeść demands(governs) object in the accusative case it's negation demands genitive That's the same as for almost all other verbs. Nie mam samochodu. Nie lubię kawy. Nie chcemy czarnej herbaty.

Lyzko

Mar 13, 10, 14:21 #12

Certain verbs are governed by certain cases which simply DON'T correspond to English, ditto the "no 2 percent" rule for when to and when not to use a given form.

For instance, the verb 'szukać' (look for, search) takes 'czego', rather than 'co'. In English, the verb translates to , e.g. "What are you looking for?", whereas in Polish "Czego (not "Co") szukasz means literally "Of what are you looking?". Do not bother though to translate structures from one language into another, even with closely related ones, you'll only confuse yourself:-)

Furthermore, the genitive is the most widely used case in Polish, frequently used in situations which continue to baffle even more fluent speakers, such as:

Mam ołówek. = I have a pencil.
Co masz? = What do you have?
Ołówek. = A pencil

VS.

Nie mam ołówku. = I don't have a pencil.
Czego? = What (...don't you have)?
Ołówku.

When affirming possession, Polish uses exclusively the nominative, no matter which gender (living masculine nouns, i.e. 'pies', 'chłopiec' etc... nothwithstanding!!), just like English, yet charactaristically always employs the genitive when negating possession.

To be continued, I'm sure. LOL

MagdalenaThreads: 5 Posts: 1,389 Joined: Aug 15, 07 ♀	Mar 13, 10, 14:23 #13
Lyzko: Ołówku. OłówkA for crying out loud! ;-p

Lyzko	Mar 13, 10, 14:24 #14
'Scuse me, I meant Polish uses the ACCUSATIVE to affirm possession, what I posted above is obviously a pure typo))))))

Lyzko	Mar 13, 10, 14:27 #15
Of course, Madzia. I mistyped again. Most of the 'a'/'u' masculine endings really must be learned individually, musn't they? I console myself that it's probably like German gender articles 'der', 'die', 'das' for foreigners. Thank H----n, I'll never know for sure.lol Dzięki!!!!

Lyzko	Mar 13, 10, 16:35 #16
I assume then it's the same as 'a' for other masculine non-living vs. 'u' for living nouns, yes?'-:) Szukam podręcznikA "............" Szukam gościU (or: gościA), pana Kowalskiego. Nie już mam mojego komputerA. etc.....

♂

Edited by: SzwedwPolsce Mar 13, 10, 17:51 #17

Lyzko:

Szukam gościU (or: gościA), pana Kowalskiego.

gościa

Lyzko:

I assume then it's the same as 'a' for other masculine non-living vs. 'u' for living nouns, yes?'-:)

It's the opposite I'd say. Most living masculine nouns (gen. sing.) end in -a. I'd guess it's > 80%. (chłopaka, studenta, psa, kota, gościa etc.)

When it comes to non-living nouns (a much bigger group) it's more difficult. But the majority of words here end in -u.

Lyzko	Mar 13, 10, 18:07 #18
Tacka, Szwed! 'Komputer'/'komputera' etc.... would then be an exception to the u-ending predominance for masculine inanimate nouns, basically.

SzwedwPolsceThreads: 13 Posts: 1,915 Joined: Feb 21, 09 ♂	Edited by: SzwedwPolsce Mar 13, 10, 18:21 #19
Lyzko: 'Komputer'/'komputera' etc.... would then be an exception to the u-ending predominance for masculine inanimate nouns, basically. You can say that. There are many non-living nouns ending in -a. So there are many exceptions. For example, non-living things you can eat often end in -a.

Lyzko	Mar 13, 10, 18:44 #20
Masculine edibles, I presume::-))) chleb/chlebA sendwicz/sendwiczA .........

catsoldierThreads: 90 Posts: 698 Joined: Sep 27, 09 ♂	Jul 24, 11, 00:17 #21
http://www.tvn24.pl/24467,1622376,1,1,kto-napisal-ksiazke-roku,wiadomo sc.html The title of this page is: Kto napisał książkę roku? This is a biernik question as far as I know, kogo, co but they used kto? Would anyone be able to explain this to me?

strzygaThreads: 4 Posts: 986 Joined: Apr 30, 08 ♀	Jul 24, 11, 02:17 #22
This is a biernik question as far as I know, kogo, co right, and it applies to "książkę", which is indeed in the Acc. napisać kogo, co - książkę. But "kto" is in Nom.

SzwedwPolsceThreads: 13 Posts: 1,915 Joined: Feb 21, 09 ♂	Edited by: SzwedwPolsce Jul 24, 11, 09:32 #23
Kto = subject (always nominative) książkę = direct object (accusative) Accusative and genitive of kto would be kogo. Kto lubi kawę? Od kogo dostałaś tą sukienkę?

catsoldierThreads: 90 Posts: 698 Joined: Sep 27, 09 ♂	Edited by: catsoldier Jul 24, 11, 16:09 #24
right, and it applies to "książkę", which is indeed in the Acc. Kto lubi kawę? Thanks, I think I get it now. How about this? *Kto* kochał Katarzynę? *Adam* Kogo Adam kochał? Katarzynę Kto lubi kawę? Ja! Co ja lubię? Kawę! Super dzięki.

catsoldierThreads: 90 Posts: 698 Joined: Sep 27, 09 ♂	Jul 24, 11, 16:19 #25
For the next person

SzwedwPolsceThreads: 13 Posts: 1,915 Joined: Feb 21, 09 ♂	Jul 24, 11, 19:15 #26
Kto kochał Katarzynę? Adam Kogo Adam kochał? Katarzynę Kto lubi kawę? Ja! Co ja lubię? Kawę! Excellent.

catsoldierThreads: 90 Posts: 698 Joined: Sep 27, 09 ♂	Jul 24, 11, 21:10 #27
Excellent. Dzięki

♂

Jul 27, 11, 21:51 #28

- Czego sie napijesz?
- Co chcialbys zjesc?

However, in the example above, i was just unaware that the rflexive verb casued a certain declanation.

Good observation. There are very many verbs that can be used as either reflexive or non-reflexive, with the former requiring dopełniacz and the latter biernik e.g.:

napić się herbaty vs. wypić herbatę
najeść się chleba vs. zjeść chleb
naoglądać się filmów vs. oglądać filmy
nasłuchać się głupot vs. słuchać głupoty
etc.

The "na-... się" construction is used to indicate that someone did something as much as he could and now he's full or tired or cannot do it any more. It can be used with virtually every verb e.g.:

Napracowałem się dzisiaj i jestem zmęczony - I worked hard today and now I'm tired.
Najadłem się chleba - I ate bread (and I'm full now)
Nagadałem się tyle że mnie boli gardło - I talked so much and now I have a sore throat

Cinek

catsoldierThreads: 90 Posts: 698 Joined: Sep 27, 09 ♂	Aug 2, 11, 21:42 #29
Co słuchacie w tej chwili? When I was checking the internet for how to say this I found many instances of: Czego słuchacie w tej chwili? Kogo Czego is a genitive question as far as I know, what is the story?

strzygaThreads: 4 Posts: 986 Joined: Apr 30, 08 ♀	Edited by: strzyga Aug 2, 11, 21:46 #30
słuchać takes genitive - słuchać kogo, czego - słuchać mówcy, muzyki (listen to) "słuchać co" is incorrect albeit used in speech - it's lazy language

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