Difference between Polska & Polsce?

Polskiej_DumyThreads: 26 Posts: 69 Joined: Oct 8, 09 ♂	Jun 23, 10, 06:03 #1
When do you use Polska and when do you use Polsce ?

plk123Threads: 30 Posts: 6,412 Joined: Aug 29, 07 ♂	Jun 23, 10, 06:16 #2
polska is the country .. Polsce has to be preempted with a "w" or something like it for it to make sense. = in Poland

Polskiej_DumyThreads: 26 Posts: 69 Joined: Oct 8, 09 ♂	Jun 23, 10, 06:38 #3
plk123: Polsce has to be preempted with a "w" or something like it for it to make sense. = in Poland Why can't you say "w Polska" ??

plk123Threads: 30 Posts: 6,412 Joined: Aug 29, 07 ♂	Jun 23, 10, 06:54 #4
Polskiej_Dumy: Why can't you say "w Polska" ?? because that makes no sense.. i'll let others chime in to explain how it all works..

Polskiej_DumyThreads: 26 Posts: 69 Joined: Oct 8, 09 ♂	Jun 23, 10, 06:58 #5
plk123: because that makes no sense haha i dont get it. w=in + Polska=Poland = in Poland Why do you have to change the whole word??

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Edited by: Moderator Jun 23, 10, 07:04 #6

because Polish is more fluid then English.. it is also one of the hardest languages to learn.. it's similar to spanish or italian in some of the way it works.. look into the polish grammar in some of the other threads in here to get more ideas.

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Torq:

There are many cases when "Polsce" doesn't have to be preceded with anything.

but then you say:

Torq:

Polsce is celownik

which basically means that it has to have a direction given to it and thus they do but maybe not "w" which is just one example i used.. moron

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Jun 23, 10, 08:47 #7

Torq:

Oh, yeah? How about a poll?

I don't think anyone would be interested.

Anyway, either of you is wrong here. In the expression "w Polsce", it is not celownik which is being used, it is the case called miejscownik (locative). Actually, the celownik is the same as the miejscownik in the case of the noun 'Polska'. To detect which case is being used in 'w Polsce' you have to replace 'Polska' with another noun for which both cases take different forms, for example - Liban: 'przyglądam się Libanowi' (celownik) versus 'Byłem w Libanie' (miejscownik).

MEMBER ♂

Edited by: Torq Jun 23, 10, 08:58 #8

Ziemowit:

I don't think anyone would be interested.

True.

Ziemowit:

In the expression "w Polsce", it is not celownik which is being used, it is the case called miejscownik (locative).

Of course, but that's not what the argument was about. Plk said that "Polsce" HAS TO
be preceded by something (like "w", for example) when clearly it doesn't have to be preceded
by anything, if it is used in celownik (komu? czemu?), as in example sentences that I provided.

The original question was...

Polskiej_Dumy:

When do you use Polska and when do you use Polsce ?

...and "Polsce" is a correct form for both: celownik and miejscownik, so doesn't necessarily
have to be preceded by anything.

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Edited by: Moderator Jun 23, 10, 09:30 #9

Torq:

Wrong grammar. We have seven different grammatical cases in Polish.
Polska is mianownik whilst Polsce is celownik and you have to use these
cases to speak Polish properly.

Still, your explanation was incomplete as you should have said "whilst 'Polsce' is celownik and miejscownik'. In my view you should have added that as the original poster's examples in his next questions were:

Polskiej_Dumy:

Why can't you say "w Polska" ??

and

Polskiej_Dumy:

haha i dont get it.
w=in + Polska=Poland = in Poland
Why do you have to change the whole word??

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Jun 23, 10, 11:47 #10

Dear Polskiej Dumy (wrong case -- should be Polska Duma),
Why do Brits and Yanks say things 'I went to the beach yesterday' or 'Last Friday was my mum's birthday' or 'I will check it out. Arabs and other non-native speakers say 'I go to beach yesterday' and 'Last Friday mum's birthday' adn I check it out.' And they get along very nicely and everybody understands what they're saying and it's far less wordy. So why all the Anglo nonsense such as "they will have arrived" or "he has been saying with his inlaws" or "Bill had only just opened the door, when...' or 'We haven't got any'....etc.? Who needs it? Well, the Anglos think they do, and French and Poles and Vietnamese also think their languages cannot function properly without certain national-specific attributes. End of sermon!

MatowyThreads: 1 Posts: 519 Joined: Jul 4, 09 ♂	Jun 23, 10, 15:43 #11
plk123: it's similar to spanish or italian in some of the way it works Pure nonsense. Spanish and Italian are as easy as taking a piss compared to Polish.

plk123Threads: 30 Posts: 6,412 Joined: Aug 29, 07 ♂	Jun 24, 10, 07:09 #12
Matowy: Pure nonsense. Spanish and Italian are as easy as taking a piss compared to Polish. not nonsense.. both of those languages work very similarly to polish.. they both have feminine and masculine forms for all the nouns, etc.

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Jun 24, 10, 08:03 #13

True, but they don't have different cases for nouns. I'm American, studied Latin for two yers, and understand the way cases work, but Polish has 7 of them, and that makes it more difficult for me to learn. I also speak French, some Italian, and a little Spanish. All those languages have articles: a, an, the, which is difficult for Poles to wrestle when when they learn English.

About verbs. English is much more precise than Polish when it comes to time, so there are lots more tenses than in Polish.

Polish is by far the most difficult language I've ever tried to learn, and in about 17 more years maybe I'll learn to say dwa piwa instead of dwa piwo. :)

plk123Threads: 30 Posts: 6,412 Joined: Aug 29, 07 ♂	Jun 24, 10, 08:08 #14
scottie1113: and in about 17 more years maybe I'll learn to say dwa piwa instead of dwa piwo. :) lol.. looks like you're getting it. :)

scottie1113Threads: 11 Posts: 873 Joined: Mar 13, 07 ♂	Jun 24, 10, 08:34 #15
Tak, ale wolniej. :)

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Jun 24, 10, 08:43 #16

to the OP.......yet again, Polish claims its next victim.

if i had a dime for every time a foreigner said, after being corrected on a case ending, "what? oh come on.....what the f#uck is that?" i'd be a very rich........wait......foreigners don't study polish!........ok, so i'd have a water cooler filled with dimes maybe.

plk123 wrote:

not nonsense.. both of those languages work very similarly to polish.. they both have feminine and masculine forms for all the nouns, etc.

spanish and italian work NOTHING like polish.

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Jun 25, 10, 16:46 #17

You think Polish is bad, try Finnish or Hungarian, Irish or Basque. Actually each language has its complexities and pitfalls and require study to do them justice. Sure you can say 'me go, me want, me like' or their equivalents in other langauges and make yourself understood, but that is slaughtering the tongue. The Spanish verbal system is quite complex, Italian has several articles for nouns of the same gender, Russian's unpredictable stress causes trouble for foreign learners not the mention German's der die das. And learnign to write Chinese? Forget it!

SzwedwPolsceThreads: 13 Posts: 1,915 Joined: Feb 21, 09 ♂	Edited by: SzwedwPolsce Jun 25, 10, 18:17 #18
Polskiej_Dumy: When do you use Polska and when do you use Polsce ? It's the locative case. It's used when you say that something is in or on somthing else. This means that the word after w (we) and na is very likely to take the locative case. In Poland, in the dream, on the steet, in the house etc. Polska - w Polsce Sen - we śnie Dom - w domu Ulica - na ulicy

FUZZYWICKETSThreads: 12 Posts: 1,999 Joined: Nov 3, 09 ♂	Jun 25, 10, 18:23 #19
i believe it's we śnie no?

pgtxThreads: 49 Posts: 6,327 Joined: Feb 14, 09 MEMBER ♀	Jun 25, 10, 18:25 #20
FUZZYWICKETS: i believe it's we śnie no? yes...

SzwedwPolsceThreads: 13 Posts: 1,915 Joined: Feb 21, 09 ♂	Edited by: SzwedwPolsce Jun 25, 10, 18:27 #21
FUZZYWICKETS: i believe it's we śnie no? True. Thanks. However, w and we are 2 aspects of the same preposition. So there are no differences in grammatical rules. In grammar books you usually find only w. But the we-aspect is treated the same. The only reason the we-aspect exists is to make some words easier to pronounce.

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Edited by: NorthMancPolak Jun 25, 10, 18:38 #22

plk123:

because that makes no sense.. i'll let others chime in to explain how it all works..

he (the OP) is thinking in English, which doesn't work in Polish ;)

a few examples:

Poland, the nation: Polska
In Poland: w Polsce
From Poland: z Polski
Of Poland/Polish: Polskie
About something Polish: o polskich/polskim
To Poland: do Polski
Beyond Poland: poza Polską

Still think those skinny Polish women are worth it?? ;) :D

Polonius3:

And learnign to write Chinese? Forget it!

I may be exceptional, but I find Chinese characters far easier to remember than Chinese pronunciation. All I can remember is "xiexie" and that's not much use in Hong Kong lol

SzwedwPolsceThreads: 13 Posts: 1,915 Joined: Feb 21, 09 ♂	Edited by: SzwedwPolsce Jun 25, 10, 18:55 #23
Polonius3: try Finnish or Hungarian, Irish or Basque. Or if sb thinks Polish grammar is difficult, try Greek. SzwedwPolsce: Polska - w Polsce Sen - we śnie Dom - w domu Ulica - na ulicy And maybe 4 examples: Mieszkam w Polsce. Dwa serca łączą się we śnie. Jesteśmy w domu. Na ulicy widziałem Cię.

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Jun 25, 10, 19:13 #24

Polish is far more difficult to learn than Finnish - and if I remember correctly (it's been 10 years since I learnt) - Finnish has 11 cases! The biggest difficultly I've had is the insistence on teaching the grammar without teaching any vocabulary first that seems to prevail in Poland (yes, I know it's important, but so is being able to do the weekly shop without using sign-language). With Finnish they concentrated on getting us confident with what we were saying and only then explained why.

scottie1113Threads: 11 Posts: 873 Joined: Mar 13, 07 ♂	Jun 25, 10, 19:35 #25
NorthMancPolak: Still think those skinny Polish women are worth it?? ;) :D Yes, although mine's not skinny.

Lyzko	Jun 25, 10, 22:37 #26
Polish shares with ultra-conservative tongues such as Lithuanian, Icelandic, Basque and several others, considerable prefixal as well as case-driven productivity. The seven cases of Polish should certainly come as little to no surprise for the experienced language student/linguist:-)) W Polsce vs. Polska vs. do Polski etc... Surely, why not LOL

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