The differences between these words: Oni plywaja / plyna / biegaja /biegna /chodza /ida

raith09Threads: 4 Posts: 11 Joined: May 18, 11 ♂	Edited by: raith09 May 18, 11, 15:01 #1
Hello, im having trouble figuring out the differences between these words, im working on them in the first part of Rosetta stone however I don't know what the difference between these words are and how to use them correctly. Please help! Oni plywaja Oni plyna oni biegaja oni biegna oni chodza oni ida

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Edited by: Torq May 18, 11, 15:14 #2

The usage is similar to the usage of Present Simple and Present Continuous tenses in English.
"Oni pływają" would be the Polish equivalent of "They swim" (Oni pływają w morzu w każdą sobotę /
They swim in the sea every Saturday) whilst "Oni płyną" would more or less equal "They are swimming"
("Oni płyną w naszą stronę!" / "They're swimming in our direction!")
The same goes for biegają, biegną and chodzą, idą.

Of course my explanation entails a measure of oversimplicity, but it is more or less how it works in Polish.

Lyzko

May 21, 11, 14:14 #3

Tenses in English relate though more to time of action vs. Slavic aspects which focus on duration of action. "Piszę list." = I'm writing a letter (...at this moment, action in progress)
"Napiszę list." = I'm going to write a letter (..this, having a future component built into
the structure, cf. "Będę pisał list.", whereby in Polish the action is deemed therefore
complete, something like "I will have (already) completed writing the letter."

Another example might be: "Opery Wagnera podobają mi się." - I like Wagnerian opera (...always!).
"Opera wczoraj wieczorem spodobała mi się." = I liked the opera
yesterday evening. (..limited to ONLY that one time!)

Does this make abit more sense?

♂

Edited by: Koala May 21, 11, 14:51 #4

Lyzko, I don't think it's as clear cut as you seem to indicate. Let's take your example with the opera:
"Wczorajsza opera podobała mi się" means "I liked the opera yesterday", while "Wczorajsza opera spodobała mi się" indicates that you liked the opera but you probably hadn't expected to like it, therefore your state of mind was changed during the opera. I'd say tryb dokonany (perfective?) usually describes change of state of something (of the subject or the object or the implied object), tryb niedokonany (imperfective?) describes activity.

However, the distinction between tryb dokonany/niedokonany are only in past and future tenses, there's no such distinction in present tense (as it wouldn't make logical sense). In polish many activities are described by a set of two separate verbs, one that describes the action happening at the moment, the other describes the action occurring regularly (kind of like differences between present continuous and present simple in English).

Lyzko	May 21, 11, 15:08 #5
Koala, thanks for your always valuable input here as a native Polish speaker! I take your point about my oversimplifying. I was merely attempting to locate the concept of aspect in a context which non-Slavic learners of Polish might understand. This approach, both pedagogically as well as linguistically, can however be problematic:)

noreenbThreads: 4 Posts: 1,082 Joined: Apr 22, 09 ♀	May 21, 11, 16:54 #6
raith09 Oni pływają they swim Oni płyną they're swimming (now) oni biegają they run oni biegną they're running (now) oni chodzą they walk oni idą they're walking (now) Hope it helps a bit too. :)

♂

Jun 1, 11, 02:26 #7

I'm also a beginner, so correct me if I'm wrong but:
1) Chodzić is used for something you do routinely (even if it's not walking). Such as, "I go to the gym on tuesday's".
2) Chodzić is not as directional as iść. "iść" Is used if you're going somewhere with purpose, so chodzić is more like, "taking a walk...", than "I'm going to...".
3) I've heard the Rosetta stone issue come up before. It looked like they intended some directionality with "Płyną" vs "Pływają" since in the corresponding images they had people swimming willy nilly on one, and in all in one direction in the other. Same for biegną vs biegają. I don't think that's a valid association though. Anyone?

ZiemowitThreads: 10 Posts: 1,063 Joined: May 8, 09 ♂	Jun 1, 11, 10:50 #8
I think Rosetta is right with this intention of directionality. One can easily imagine sentences like: 'Codzienne przed kolacją idą na trening' or 'Codziennie po obiedzie płyną na drugi brzeg jeziora i z powrotem' or 'Dwa razy w tygodniu biegną wokół stadionu'.

♂

Edited by: Antek_Stalich Jun 1, 11, 11:13 #9

Ziemowit:

'Codziennie po obiedzie płyną na drugi brzeg jeziora i z powrotem' or 'Dwa razy w tygodniu biegną wokół stadionu'.

Funny thing, I would say as well:
"Dwa razy w tygodniu biegają wokół stadionu" and it would be valid too. "They use to be running around the stadium twice a week".

Because running takes time, a lot of time. 'Biegają" (running) means something takes considerable amount of time, while "biegną" (run) is somewhat awkward in this context although formally correct. (Both sentences would be valid, my sentence sounding and feeling better).

The problem of foreigners learning Polish is they have no other way than obeying to the grammar rules, while fluent Polish is far more complex.

♂

Jun 1, 11, 12:14 #10

Yeah, the difference between biegnąć and biegać is blurry and I often use them exchangeably.

Lyzko:

Koala, thanks for your always valuable input here as a native Polish speaker! I take your point about my oversimplifying. I was merely attempting to locate the concept of aspect in a context which non-Slavic learners of Polish might understand. This approach, both pedagogically as well as linguistically, can however be problematic:)

I think the differences aren't as big as you make them out to be. Ultimately the same information is conveyed, the difference is that in Polish more information is conveyed in the infinitive form of the verb and the grammar tenses are streamlined.

♂

Jun 1, 11, 12:23 #11

Antek_Stalich:

'Biegają" (running) means something takes considerable amount of time, while "biegną" (run) is somewhat awkward in this context although formally correct. (Both sentences would be valid, my sentence sounding and feeling better).

The above, I think, isn't the essence of the problem. The essence of the problem is clearly intention and directionality. If someone says "biegają wokół stadionu", it implies 'running without any real purpose, indeed", so they may run / may be running the stadium once, twice or half-round. If someone says: "biegną wokół stadionu", it implies that people who do / are doing it most probably act on specific purspose which may either be achieving one round [or precisely two or precisely three of them] or measure the time of their round[s].

If I re-write the above sentence as "Dwa razy w tygodniu biegną 400 metrów na czas", you wouldn't be able to tell that it sounds awkward or doesn't feel good.

Antek_StalichThreads: 6 Posts: 1,533 Joined: May 6, 11 ♂	Jun 1, 11, 12:28 #12
Ziemowit: f I re-write the above sentence as "Dwa razy w tygodniu biegną 400 metrów na czas", you wouldn't be able to tell that it sounds awkward or doesn't feel good. True. However, if they only use to be running for exercise, my version is better.

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