doing/making

chazaThreads: 49 Posts: 266 Joined: Dec 21, 09 ♂	Dec 30, 09, 14:10 #1
i am confused at the moment, what is the difference between robić, wyrobić,zrobić. thanks chaza

Cardno85Threads: 33 Posts: 858 Joined: Jul 11, 08 MEMBER ♂	Dec 30, 09, 14:23 #2
I am no expert at all...but I think that zrobić is the future form. As in "Co zrobisz na sylwestra?" meaning what are you doing for new year...as in the future. But I might be wrong.

♀

Dec 30, 09, 16:12 #3

robić: "czasownik niedokonany" - actions or states which were lasting in the past, are lasting at present, or will be lasting in the future.

Co robiłeś/aś wczoraj? What were you doing yesterday?
Co robisz? What are you doing?
Co będziesz robić jutro wieczorem? What will you be doing tomorrow in the evening?

zrobić: "czasownik dokonany" - actions or states which were finished in the past or will be finished in the future.

I made you a cup of tea.
Zrobiłem/am ci szklankę herbaty. ("z" at the beginning reminds English: it's already done (the action is finished).

Zrobię ci szklankę herbaty.
I will make you a cup of tea.

wyrobić: I remember just one example: wyrobić/wyrabiać (again czasownik "dokonany" and "niedokonany") ciasto, it means: to crumple (?) dough to be prepared for "pierogi" ;)

chazaThreads: 49 Posts: 266 Joined: Dec 21, 09 ♂	Dec 30, 09, 18:41 #4
so should i forget about the wyrobić.

♂

Edited by: Ziemowit Dec 30, 09, 19:35 #5

No, you shouldn't. Wyrobić/wyrabiać has six meanings; some of them are used in the perfective only, some of them are used in the imperfective only, some of them are used in both. Please consult the dictionary about this verb.

I have re-written from the dictionary the meanings of wyrobić się/wyrabiać się (pronominal verb) for you. It means:

1. nabrać doświadczenia, umiejętności w czymś: Wyrobił się towarzysko.
2. zniszczyć się wskutek tarcia: Wyrobiły się zawiasy.
3. (colloqiual) zdążyć z jakąś pracą, z jakąś czynnością: Nie wyrobię się na ósmą.

noreenbThreads: 4 Posts: 1,082 Joined: Apr 22, 09 ♀	Edited by: noreenb Dec 30, 09, 19:46 #6
other examples: wyrobić sobie dobre imię, pozycję: make a name for yourself wyrabiać w kimś posłuszeństwo/charakter: discipline

♂

Edited by: chaza Dec 30, 09, 19:52 #7

i am having the same kind of confusion with był and its participles for 'was' & 'were'.
some come out as byłiśćie and others come out as byłyśmy, what are the rules for this use.
i undertsand the various gender participles, but when this happens it makes me question myself.
i dont think i'm getting this one either, robić seems to be what you are physically doing, zrobić seems to be what you have done as the previous post said, and wrobić seems to mean what you are developing. would that be on the right line

chaza

♀

Dec 30, 09, 21:03 #8

chaza:

i am having the same kind of confusion with był and its participles for 'was' & 'were'. some come out as byłiśćie and others come out as byłyśmy, what are the rules for this use.i undertsand the various gender participles, but when this happens it makes me question myself.i dont think i'm getting this one either, robić seems to be what you are physically doing, zrobić seems to be what you have done as the previous post said, and wrobić seems to mean what you are developing. would that be on the right line

byliśmy, byliście, byli etc. is male, personal, animate - meaning you use it when talking about people of male gender
byłyśmy, byłyście, były etc. is female/neuter/non-animate - all other cases (women, kids, objects)

as for robić, zrobić, wyrobić, there's more: przerobić, dorobić, nadrobić, zarobić, podrobić, odrobić, narobić, wrobić...
actually it's like the English phrasal verbs - make up, make from, make off, make up etc.
There's not much logic to it in either language, I'm afraid. There's no easy way around it and mostly you just need to memorize the right verb for every meaning.

Lyzko	Dec 30, 09, 21:30 #9
For example: Co tu ROBISZ? = What are you doing here? Co tu ZROBISZ? = What do you do (i.e. what is your job) here? Idioms with robić vs. zrobić: ZROBIĆ zdjęcia = to take (not "make") pictures ROBIĆ błędy = to make (and not "do"!) mistakes

strzygaThreads: 4 Posts: 986 Joined: Apr 30, 08 ♀	Edited by: strzyga Dec 30, 09, 21:45 #10
Lyzko: For example: Co tu ZROBISZ? = What do you do (i.e. what is your job) here? well, no. co tu zrobisz - what are you going to do/achieve here? what will you do here? it's future tense, nothing to do with the job and you may "robić zdjęcia" too, as well as "zrobić zdjęcia".

Lyzko	Dec 30, 09, 21:45 #11
Co zrobisz na sylwestra? = What do you do (in general) on New Year's Eve? Co robisz na sylwestra? = What are you doing on New Year's Eve? ))))))

Lyzko	Dec 30, 09, 21:48 #12
Confusing though, Strzyga, as to whether I meant "What do you do?" vs. "What (the heck) are you doing....?" Guess I'll have to 'iron out' my translations (..no pun intended on your Forum name!) :-)

strzygaThreads: 4 Posts: 986 Joined: Apr 30, 08 ♀	Dec 30, 09, 21:51 #13
Lyzko: Co zrobisz na sylwestra? = What do you do (in general) on New Year's Eve? no. sorry :) Co zrobisz na sylwestra? - What are you going to do on New Year's Eve? (presumably this year, i.e. the nearest New Year's Eve). Practically it's the same as "co robisz na Sylwestra?" What do you do (in general) on New Year's Eve? would be: Co zwykle robisz na/w Sylwestra?

chazaThreads: 49 Posts: 266 Joined: Dec 21, 09 ♂	Dec 30, 09, 22:00 #14
well folks the trip just got harder. i suppose i can still be undertstood if my robic and zrobic are not perfect. the more i speak it the better i'll become, but at least i can comunicate, albeit without gramatical perfection. i dont even have that with english. you have been great people. thank you chaza

♀

Dec 30, 09, 22:10 #15

[quote=Lyzko]Confusing though, Strzyga, as to whether I meant "What do you do?" vs. "What (the heck) are you doing....?"quote]

:))
The tricky part is that both your questions - "What do you do?" vs. "What (the heck) are you doing....?" - would be the same in Polish: co robisz? (for living, or just now).

The "vs." is not Simple vs Continuous aspect, but perfective vs. imperfective. Use "zrobić" where you would use a perfect tense in English:
I've taken some pictures - zrobiłem trochę zdjęć.
It's about going all the way through with some task and finishing it.
Zrobiłem obiad - I prepared a meal and now it is ready to be eaten. I've made dinner, or: I made dinner. Anyway, the job is finished.

I think it's the same with all verbs which take z- as a prefix, like: budować - zbudować:
budowałem dom - I was building a house - we don't know if the construction has ever been finished,
zbudowałem dom - and it id finished now.
Jadłem bułkę - I was eating a roll (but did I finish?)
Zjadłem bułkę - I ate the whole roll; I finished it.

In future tense you may use both forms, as the future is never certain and you can't be sure if you manage to finish anything :)
so: zbuduję dom or będę budować dom. However, the determination to finish it is bigger with the first sentence.

I know it can be a little confusing :)

Guess I'll have to 'iron out' my translations (..no pun intended on your Forum name!):-)

:) and what has my forum name to do with ironing? I hate ironing :)))

♂

Edited by: SzwedwPolsce Dec 31, 09, 00:46 #16

chaza:

i am having the same kind of confusion with był and its participles for 'was' & 'were'.some come out as byłiśćie and others come out as byłyśmy, what are the rules for this use.i undertsand the various gender participles, but when this happens it makes me question myself.

You need to look at a conjugation table. There you have all the forms.

Buy Colloquial Polish by Mazur, it's the best book for learning Polish. And buy 301 Polish Verbs by Janecki. That's all you need.

Then you will understand 80% of the questions you ask here.

Lyzko

Dec 31, 09, 20:55 #17

Strzyga,

Momentarily thought your "name" had to to with ironing, my error. Confused it only with "strzemie":-)

As far as one of your previous posts, in fact, my translation of "Co zrobisz na sylwestra?" as "What do you do for New Year's Eve?" is also right, since in English, the present and the future may often be used interchangably (though in British English, perhaps not)LOL

I'm not correcting your excellent English, I'm only allowing for an acceptable alternative:-)

Do siego roku!

Lyzko	Dec 31, 09, 21:12 #18
Co zrobisz? = Jak jest twój zawód? Co (tu) robisz? = Dlaczego jesteś tutaj? Is the above at least an approximate distinction between those two phrases for a Polish native speaker?

♀

Edited by: strzyga Jan 1, 10, 16:49 #19

Lyzko:

Strzyga,Momentarily thought your "name" had to to with ironing, my error. Confused it only with "strzemie":-)

I can't ride a horse :)

Lyzko:

As far as one of your previous posts, in fact, my translation of "Co zrobisz na sylwestra?" as "What do you do for New Year's Eve?" is also right, since in English, the present and the future may often be used interchangably (though in British English, perhaps not)

Same in Polish, you can use present tense for future actions. In English it's Pres. Continuous. Anyway, "co zrobisz na Sylwestra" pertains to the nearest Sylwester only, not to all future ones.

Lyzko:

Co zrobisz? = Jak jest twój zawód?

I've told you already that it means "what will you do" and has nothing in common with any job/profession/occupation/whatever. "Jaki jest twój zawód?" or "czym się zajmujesz?" would be "what's your profession/occupation". But it seems that you are waiting for a second opinion - OK, I'm fine with that.

Lyzko:

Do siego roku!

Dziękuję i nawzajem :)

♂

Edited by: Ziemowit Jan 1, 10, 17:31 #20

Lyzko
Once again, one is confronted with the perfective and imperfective aspects of the Polish verb here.

Basically, a question like "Co zrobisz na Sylwestra?" is rarely, if ever, heard among native speakers of Polish. It is not good, since by asking a question about someone's activity during the New Year's Eve, we are asking them how they will be spending time, with no need to know about any result coming out of their activity, so we clearly need the imperfective aspect of the verb "robić" in the future tense here rather than the perfecive aspect, as applied to your sentece. [Please, try to construct the proper sentence.]

We often hear a sentence like "Co zrobisz na obiad/kolację?". It is here that by asking such a question we are interested in knowing about the result rather than about the process of preparing the dinner/supper, so we use the perfective aspect. Yet, we may often hear such a question with the use the imperfective aspect of the verb as in this case the process and thus time needed for that, might be equally important for the asking and for the asked. [To practice the imperfective aspect of the future tense, please try to make such one yourself.]

Such circumstances as the ones outlined above may perhaps make the use of both aspects of the Polish verb so incomprehensible for a foreign learner of Polish. A happy New Year for everyone learning Polish!

Lyzko	Jan 2, 10, 21:48 #21
Strzyga, Proszę bardzo a JA dziękuję CI za twoją pomóc! Zresztą nie poprawie napisałem słowo. Powinnie być "strzemię", nie prawda?

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