Help me understand Polish imperfective vs perfective verbs?

ZiemowitThreads: 10 Posts: 1,063 Joined: May 8, 09 ♂	Oct 2, 11, 19:38 #61
A number of Polish verbs have ONLY an imperfective form! It seems to me that the most essential of all verbs in any language, TO BE, is among them (or is both perfective and imperfective at the same time?). Thus we may arrive at the conclusion that being perfective is more important than being imperfective (at least in the Polish language!).

Lyzko	Oct 2, 11, 23:09 #62
"More important", Ziemowit?? You'll have to explain that.

Lyzko	Oct 3, 11, 23:43 #63
I'm still waiting-:)

♂

Edited by: Ziemowit Oct 5, 11, 16:50 #64

Well, it has been some sort of deliberate exageration, I admit. All I wanted to say was that from the point of view of a foreign learner, it might be handy to assume that one aspect of the verb is "more important" than the other; this just for the purposes of learning only. In seeing this problem in that specific and somewhat distorted light, the learner may tell himself that the imperfective aspect is needed in particular situations only, those in which the duration of unaccomplished action should be clearly underlined, and thus expressed accordingly. So I was trying to encourage the learner to "give preference" to the perfective aspect in the process of learning. In other words, I was trying to tell him: "Try to think of the perfective as basic, while of the imperfective as rather peculiar (or less common).

The thing that made me do so was a quick look at the headlines on the wirtualna polska website which on that day all displayed the verbs in them (used in tenses other than the present tense) in perfective aspect.

Lyzko	Oct 5, 11, 17:18 #65
Thanks, very much, Ziemowit. Am puzzling it all out, but have decided merely to chalk it up to cultural differences of instruction-:)

♂

Oct 5, 11, 17:24 #66

Ziemowit

So I was trying to encourage the learner to "give preference" to the perfective aspect in the process of learning. In other words, I was trying to tell him: "Try to think of the perfective as basic, while of the imperfective as rather peculiar (or less common).

This is what makes it difficult for a foreigner, and not only regarding verbs. While the first form people learn when starting a new language is the present tense -and therefore, imperfective in Polish - and usually the imperfective is the "basic" form as well (robić, to which you add a prefix to make it perfective, zrobić), it is actually the perfective that is used the most, I think, both in the past, in the infinitive and in the (positive) imperative. Besides, most common adjectives derived from verbs are more "complicated", as they are derived from the perfective verb: jestem zmęczony, znudzony, przestraszony, ...

♂

Edited by: Ziemowit Oct 5, 11, 18:07 #67

To illustrate the point in more detail: let's assume you are supposed to have dinner with your mother-in-law on Sunday; what would you tell your friend?

You may choose between : "W niedzielę zjem obiad z teściową" and "W niedzielę będę jadł obiad z teściową".

Both would be perfectly acceptable, so you may simply choose the former one. But the majority native speakers will subconsciously want to choose the latter while wishing to reflect the duration of the event. In doing so, they will say that they will be meeting and talking with others during this most supposedly family meeting to which their dearest or not-so-dearest mother-in-law will be come along. As this is perhaps an important or unusual event, people might - subconsciously again - say: "Mama przychodzi dzisiaj do nas na obiad" in which sentence all her and our preparation for the event that clearly takes a certain amount of time are rendered by using the imperfective aspect - the duration really MATTERS here! To say: "Mama przyjdzie dziś na obiad" will make it look quite common, and indeed would be fully justified when shown in perfective aspect, if such an event happens fairly often and we are rather used to it.

In reporting a similar even in the media, people will typically use the perfective aspect, saying, for example, "Kanclerz Agela Merkel zje dzisiaj obiad z premierem Donaldem Tuskiem", as it is quite irrelevant to underline the duration of the event here; the headline simply informs that Bundeskanzlerin Merkel "spotka się dzisiaj z premierem Tuskiem przy obiedzie".

Lyzko

Oct 5, 11, 23:27 #68

Ziemowicie, this what you're saying is perfectly in synch with '301 Polish Verbs' in the introduction! I have no problem with it at all. As one who knows a number of languages, including Polish, I reiterate that all languages have their sticking points. In Polish it's aspects, in German it's the dizzying word order and sentence length for foreigners (not to mention the umpteen case endings..), in French it's the tense possibilities, in English, it's the spelling and the list simply goes on-:)

ZiemowitThreads: 10 Posts: 1,063 Joined: May 8, 09 ♂	Oct 6, 11, 12:01 #69
I have no problem with it at all. So why this difficulty with the aspects of the Polish verb? Isn't it a bit like in this famous epigram by the Polish 16th century poet Jan Kochanowski: Jeśli nie grzeszysz, jako mi powiadasz Czemu się miły tak często spowiadasz? ;-)

♂

Oct 6, 11, 14:04 #70

And here's a bonus for those who try to understand the imperfective aspect: a song by Marek Grechuta!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rW0TgYZn_tk

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Lyzko	Oct 6, 11, 17:38 #71
Doskonale, Ziemowicie! Ślicznie dziękuję. Absolut genial jest-:)

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