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which 'if' (jeśli, gdyż or gdyby) use in conversation?


posts: 13

chazaThreads: 49
Posts: 266
Joined: Dec 21, 09  Pictures: 1 ♂ 		 Sep 17, 10, 10:01    #1
in conversation when i want to use the word 'if' i use the word 'jeśli' but im not sure if i should be using the word ' gdyź' or 'gdyby'.

any guidance on this matter please



chaza
plk123Threads: 30
Posts: 6,412
Joined: Aug 29, 07  Pictures: 2 ♂ 		 Sep 17, 10, 10:10    #2
jeżeli
scottie1113Threads: 11
Posts: 873
Joined: Mar 13, 07 ♂ 		 Sep 17, 10, 10:18    #3
Interesting, and that's what I love about Polish. Ask two people, get three different answers. :) Two of the English teachers at my school are Polish with CPE (Certificate of Proficiency in English, which means that their English is almost as good as mine). Both of them said jeśli. Go figure!
chazaThreads: 49
Posts: 266
Joined: Dec 21, 09  Pictures: 1 ♂ 		 Sep 17, 10, 10:36    #4
so how does gdyź or gdyby fit then, in what context wold i use them.



chaza
wiewiorosThreads: -
Posts: 4
Joined: Aug 9, 10 ♀ 		 Sep 17, 10, 12:57    #5
'gdyż' is not very popular in spoken conversations, it's more written language, and it means 'because'

'jeśli' is used most in first conditional sentences: Jeśli nie będzie dzisiaj padać, pójdziemy na spacer (If it doesn't rain today, we'll go for a walk). Jeśli chcesz, możemy iść do kina (If you want, we can go to the cinema).

'gdyby' is used most in second, third and mixed conditional sentences: Gdyby nie padało, moglibyśmy pójść na spacer (If it wasn't raining, we could go for a walk). Gdyby on tyle nie wypił, nie byłby teraz w szpitalu (If he hadn't drunk so much, he wouldn't be in hospital now).

Did that help? :)
chazaThreads: 49
Posts: 266
Joined: Dec 21, 09  Pictures: 1 ♂ 		 Sep 17, 10, 13:30    #6
would i be far wrong if i got them mixed up, would it alter the sentence much.


chaza
mafketisThreads: 17
Posts: 1,880
Joined: Mar 31, 08 ♂ 		 Sep 17, 10, 14:06    #7
wiewioros:

'jeśli' is used most in first conditional sentences: J
'gdyby' is used most in second, third and mixed conditional sentences:


wiewioros, the terms 'first conditional' etc are not really used by native English speakers. it's more of a teaching tool for teaching English as a foreign language than anything most native speakers think of.

chaza, use jeśli if the english equivalent uses the simple present "if they arrive by five (I'll be happy) "If you do this, I'll be sad."

use gdyby the rest of the time

It's a little more complicated but that will get you started and be right over 90 % of the time.
SeanusThreads: 22
Posts: 30,158
Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂ 		 Sep 17, 10, 16:50    #8
Jeśli or jeżeli are used in a similar way to the first conditional. The conditional of probability.

Gdybym with other words is for conditionals 2 and 3. Hypothetical/suppositions. Or imaginary in the present (2) or in the past (3).
chazaThreads: 49
Posts: 266
Joined: Dec 21, 09  Pictures: 1 ♂ 		 Sep 17, 10, 22:13    #9
understood


thanks


chaza
Kamil_plThreads: -
Posts: 69
Joined: Dec 24, 08 ♂ 		Edited by: Kamil_pl  Sep 23, 10, 22:39    #10
Use word "jak" if you want to speak like normal people on the streets. Not "Jeśli nie będzie padać to pójdziemy na spacer", but "Jak nie będzie padać to pójdziemy na spacer". (If it doesn't rain, we will go for a walk). And not "gdyby", but "jakby". I don't even know if that's correct, but I speak like that :)
yuaeltThreads: -
Posts: 12
Joined: Nov 2, 10 ♀ 		 Nov 3, 10, 07:31    #11
Kamil_pl
Kamil_pl:
And not "gdyby", but "jakby". I don't even know if that's correct, but I speak like that :)


"jakby" may not be flat out incorrect but I think it's a regionalism of some sort, 'cause I've never heard anyone speaking like that.

***

Guys, if you have problems using "gdyby", try to remember this sentence:

"Gdyby ciocia miała wąsy, to by była wujkiem".
(If auntie had a mustache, she would be an uncle)

It's a saying Polish often use when they've had enough of someone's unreal or multilayer suppositions. The other side might have been using "jeśli/jeżeli" all the time, but we just started feeling the whole idea has too many conditions to be met.

Polish may mix up the uses of "jeśli" and "gdyby", (I know a lot of people who use gdyby as first conditional, just to express a possibility, and not a fixed plan) but if you want to use "gdyby" safely, limit it to sentences resembling the auntie with mustache case.
mafketisThreads: 17
Posts: 1,880
Joined: Mar 31, 08 ♂ 		 Nov 3, 10, 09:51    #12
jakby is "as if; like"

Mówił, jakby już był dyrektorem. (He was talking like/as if he was the director already.)

Jakbyś tam była! (It's as if you were there!)

Zachował się, jakbym już się zgodził. (He was acting like I'd already agreed.)
RichfilthThreads: 8
Posts: 327
Joined: Mar 8, 09 ♂ 		 Nov 3, 10, 10:24    #13
wiewieros, that was an excellent explanation, thank you. I haven't done conditional structures in Polish yet, but I've taught them for years in English so your explanation made perfect sense.


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