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'lubię, lubisz' - Infinitive


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ChrzaszczThreads: 19
Posts: 136
Joined: Jul 4, 11 ♂ 		 Nov 28, 11, 22:56    #61
ReservoirDog:
Thanks in advance. :-)


Cheers ReservoirDog! Much appreciated!
pamThreads: 22
Posts: 463
Joined: Oct 11, 11  Gold Member MEMBER ♀ 		 Nov 28, 11, 23:01    #62
ReservoirDog:
Jestem w sklepie

have also copied this list reservoir dog , but am miles behind chrzaszcz,as dont know grammar, only that endings change. for example ja ide do sklepu...ale jestem w sklepie. need to get hold of hurra! po polsku 1 asap. only so much you can learn from conversing. thanks!
ReservoirDogThreads: -
Posts: 220
Joined: Nov 22, 11 ♀ 		 Nov 28, 11, 23:09    #63
I checked this Hurra book, in my view it's shi.y :) that's why I started to help you. I would write a better book if I was polonistką :)
pamThreads: 22
Posts: 463
Joined: Oct 11, 11  Gold Member MEMBER ♀ 		 Nov 28, 11, 23:39    #64
ReservoirDog:
I checked this Hurra book, in my view it's shi.y

do you think so? chrzaszcz seems to think its good. what book would you recommend for someone thats only learned by conversation? know zero about cases etc..any advice always appreciated. in what context is this book sh*t?
ChrzaszczThreads: 19
Posts: 136
Joined: Jul 4, 11 ♂ 		 Nov 28, 11, 23:40    #65
ReservoirDog:
polonistką


I'm surprised ReservoirDog. How come you think it's what you say it was? I have learnt a great deal from this book. Where did you learn Polish?

I really do hope you can help all of us learning Polish. You seem to know it inside out!
ReservoirDogThreads: -
Posts: 220
Joined: Nov 22, 11 ♀ 		Edited by: ReservoirDog  Nov 28, 11, 23:42    #66
there is a mess, they provide some examples but not the rules and you have to make conclusions on your own. Well for now I don't know any other books, I just checked it after Chrząszcz said he is using it (I took it from internet ;)) But I will look for better one.
What I found really funny, there is a chepter where yu learn about proffessions :) and they ask to combine pictures with the names of professions. One of them was bezrobotny which means unemployed...hehehehe.
ChrzaszczThreads: 19
Posts: 136
Joined: Jul 4, 11 ♂ 		 Nov 28, 11, 23:50    #67
pam:
know zero about cases


I was like you Pam - until a few months ago I hadn't heard of most of the cases. I'd heard of a few of them from Latin. I felt I had at least to become familiar with them to learn noun, adjective, number endings. I need this for my GCSE in April/May. Each has their own method - mine is through books and rote learning - perhaps not the best way to learn, but it words very well for me. You may learn better in conversation. The book Hura!! etc, in my opinion is the best one around. It starts by introducing the Instrumental case first and recaps subsequent cases as you progress through the book. The only snag about it is that it's all in Polish; not an English word in sight. I do have many Polish friends who can interpret any difficult words/questions. And of course through this forum! Coming here has been a lifeline.
a.k.  Nov 28, 11, 23:53    #68
pam:
zawsze jestem lodowata or should that be jest mi lodowata/y? aah probably none of the above lol!


Zawsze jestem zmarznięta. Zawsze jestem lodowata is grammaticaly correct but does not fit the context. You can say that water is ice cold: woda jest lodowata. You're hands can be ice-cold: mam lodowate ręce.

As for jest mi ... I think it's more like idiomatic expression which links with some adverbs:
jest mi gorąco
jest mi ciepło (warm)
jest mi zimno
jest mi chłodno (cool)
jest mi niedobrze (I'm sick=gonna puke)
jest mi źle (I feel sad)
jest mi smutno (I'm feel sad, but here you can say also jestem smutna)
jest mi miło (Miło mi ciebie poznać - it's been nice to meet you)
jest mi wygodnie (I feel comfy)

Look that using adjectives would change the sense:
Jestem miła (I'm nice person)
Jestem wygodna (I like comfort or I'm lazy = I'm so comfy that I don't like to exhaust myself too much)
jestem niedobra (dla kogoś) = I treat bad somebody
jestem zła (I'm mad or I'm an evil person)
jestem gorąca (I'm hot chic, passionate lover)
jestem ciepłą osobą (I'm a warm person...)
gumishuThreads: 17
Posts: 3,943
Joined: Apr 6, 09  Pictures: 1 ♂ 		 Nov 29, 11, 00:22    #69
pam:
only that endings change. for example ja ide do sklepu...ale jestem w sklepie


it is true in majority of cases - but I even hesitate to say in most cases

see for example 'pies'

'To jest pies' - This is a dog. (nominative)
'Złapałem psa' (and not 'piesa') (though one can say 'piesa' for the sake of being humorous ;) - I caught a dog. (accusative case - because łapać/złapać 'demands' accusative - some other verbs demand different cases
'Złapałem w końcu tego psa' - I have caught that/the dog at last. - intonation in that sentence makes a difference in translation (that or the).
'Szukam niedużego psa' - I look for a little (smallish?) dog (nieduży is sort of not big in a 'literal' translation - but 'nieduży' is rather bigger than 'tiny') - genetive here - for living things of masculine gender (grammatical masculine gender) accusative form is the same as genetive - szukać requires genetive
Dajmy temu psu pić. - Let's give that dog some water. (dać pić means to give something to drink actually but it would look strange in English)
psu is a dative form (dative in Latin is related to giving)
Pogoda pod psem. (literally Weather under a dog - it means bad weather) - psem is a instrumental form - pod can go with two different cases but then it has different meanings for either - when movement is involved (like when you want to say you want to put something under a dog) accusative is required - otherwise it's instrumental.
'Ten koc śmierdzi brudnym psem' - This blanket stinks of a dirty dog. - some verbs that do require a preposition in English don't require one in Polish (and vice versa). - look at these two sentences 'Pies śmierdzi'. 'Psem śmierdzi.' (A dog stinks. It stinks of a dog.) 'Psem' is not the subject but the object. There is no explicit subject in 'Psem śmierdzi' The subject is in nominative in most cases.
Na spacer z psem. - For a walk with a dog. with (together with) gives z + instrumenatal in Polish
W tym psie znaleziono dwie kule myśliwskie. Two hunting weapon bullets were found in this dog. - it's locative here - the bullets found sitting in the unfortunate dog - (w preposition is similar to pod in accepting two cases - for situations where movement is observed it is accusative again and locative for 'static' situations: Strzelił w psa. He shoot at a dog. (one can say that this w is more like into than in) )

The remaining case is vocative - it's used as a direct address like in God, help me. - Boże, pomóż mi. It's not like all direct addresses in Polish make use of vocative. When you turn to people with their first name in casual speech, the name is in nominative. (Marek, do domu. Mark, come home).
Vocative tends to be used when one wants to show affection. But it is also used to show dissatisfaction, disaproval. In case of 'pies' (animals but also things) if someone wants to show affection one makes a diminutive of it - a diminutive of 'pies' is 'piesek' and the final address is 'piesku'. (Nie bój się, piesku - Don't be affraid doggy.) The vocative of 'pies' is 'psie' and it tends to carry negative emotional load and is rarely used in neutral contexts. (Ty cholerny głupi psie. You bloody stupid dog.) Notice that vocative and locative of 'pies' are the same. It's the same with all nouns of masculine gender (but not it's not the case with other genders)

Consider yourself lectured ;)

To repeat the point of this lecture - it's sometimes not only the endings that change but some vowels can be 'swallowed' to create declination cases (pies - psa - psu - psem - psie) (To augment it the plural of 'pies' is 'psy' ;)
'Koniec' 'An/the end' is similar to 'pies' (koniec - końca - końcu - końcem: 'e' gets swallowed 'i' transforms into the 'accent' this time (the accent denotes palatal variety of a consonant)
pamThreads: 22
Posts: 463
Joined: Oct 11, 11  Gold Member MEMBER ♀ 		 Nov 29, 11, 01:07    #70
Chrzaszcz:
The only snag about it is that it's all in Polish

are you having a laugh!!!! yes i can read and write it better than i can speak it, but i think a book on polish grammar IN POLISH is stretching it a bit! now i know i am well behind you. how can i possibly get to grips with cases etc when its all in polish? isnt there a nice, simple easy book in english i can buy first? where do you live in uk that you are able to do gcse polish? i went down route of enquiring about courses, but the nearest place that had anything on offer was in bristol. spoke to the teacher that ran the class(beginners), who told me straight away my polish was too good, lol!and the drop-out rate meant they would probably not be continuing with the course anyway..
ReservoirDogThreads: -
Posts: 220
Joined: Nov 22, 11 ♀ 		Edited by: ReservoirDog  Nov 29, 11, 01:18    #71
I will pm you :)
pamThreads: 22
Posts: 463
Joined: Oct 11, 11  Gold Member MEMBER ♀ 		 Nov 29, 11, 01:22    #72
a.k.:
Jestem wygodna (I like comfort or I'm lazy = I'm so comfy that I don't like to exhaust myself too much

this sounds like me...but i think im wrong again..shouldnt it be jestem leniwa? i am lazy? if not its time to stick head in gas oven
gumishuThreads: 17
Posts: 3,943
Joined: Apr 6, 09  Pictures: 1 ♂ 		Edited by: gumishu  Nov 29, 11, 01:24    #73
sure leniwa is lazy - but wygodna can be an euphemistic way to state the same ;)

ok gotta go to sleep - need to get up unuasually early for myself tomorrow - good night and take care all and Pam ;)
ReservoirDogThreads: -
Posts: 220
Joined: Nov 22, 11 ♀ 		 Nov 29, 11, 01:32    #74
Jestem leniwa is also right. Jestem wygodna means - i like comfort, because I am leniwa/lazy, I use people and devices that do things for me. So I'm not just lazy. Yes, I am lazy means leniwa.
pamThreads: 22
Posts: 463
Joined: Oct 11, 11  Gold Member MEMBER ♀ 		 Nov 29, 11, 01:45    #75
gumishu:
Consider yourself lectured ;)

what i am thinking now is fastest way of ending my life lol! piekarnik, most,pociag, albo noz....boze!
strzygaThreads: 4
Posts: 986
Joined: Apr 30, 08 ♀ 		 Nov 29, 11, 04:37    #76
pam:
piekarnik, most,pociag, albo noz....boze!

:D
Pam, you really have a knack for picking up proper everyday speech. It clearly works for you. I really enjoy the Polish intrusions in your posts.
Get a book if you want, but don't worry too much about absorbing everything at once. Just use it whenever you feel you need to get something straight.
I really think it's much easier to work with Polish grammar when you already have a stock of phrases and sentences memorized. Then the grammar begins to make sense. It certainly doesn't to a beginner.
The Polish internet or youtube could work wonders for you.
Gumishu's lecture is great and very, very comprehensive, but it might give you shivers so it's best to treat it as a source of reference for the future.
a.k.  Nov 29, 11, 10:17    #77
pam:
a book on polish grammar IN POLISH


Maybe that will suprise you but in general textbooks for learning languages are in foreign for the learner language. :(
ChrzaszczThreads: 19
Posts: 136
Joined: Jul 4, 11 ♂ 		 Nov 29, 11, 19:14    #78
a.k.:
pam:
a book on polish grammar IN POLISH


Hi Pam

I am learning from 3 books: Not in any particular order

1. Basic Polish: A grammar and Workbook - Dana Bielec.
2. Polish Verbs and Essentials of Grammar - Oscar E. Swan.
3. Hurra!!! Po Polsku 1 - Agnieszka Burkat.
4. 301 Polish Verbs - Klara Janecki

I'm also doing a lot of searching out on the internet and using Google Translate. It is a bit hard using the Hurra book since it's all in Polish, but you can get the gist of what it's asking.

GCSE Polish - I live in the North West, but have to travel down to London and will sit the exam in the Polish Centre in Hammersmith. It was a choice of Oxford College in Oxford, or the London place. No schools whatsoever would accept me as an external candidate, and have had to contact AQA several times to seek confirmation regarding the syllabus etc. Anyway, I will plump for the Speaking, Listening, Reading and Writing parts in April and May 2012.

This is the link for the Education Centre in London where I'm going for the exam. There's a link for the GCSE application form on the left 'Egzaminy GCSE'. You can then download the relevant forms to send off. Hope this helps!!!

:-)
pamThreads: 22
Posts: 463
Joined: Oct 11, 11  Gold Member MEMBER ♀ 		 Nov 29, 11, 21:06    #79
strzyga:
:D
Pam, you really have a knack for picking up proper everyday speech

oh yes strzga, i definitely have that! i can blame my lokator mariusz for that! we are always laughing and joking. typical example... i will say to mariusz..jestem najlepsze bialy aniol...mariusz will then reply,nie, nie, nie pam, jestes czarny aniol i masz dlugi,dlugi ogon i tez rogi !! expect grammar all wrong! have had help from very kind poster with grammar, so think will be busy with lots of studying soon...cant wait
pamThreads: 22
Posts: 463
Joined: Oct 11, 11  Gold Member MEMBER ♀ 		 Nov 29, 11, 21:18    #80
a.k.:

Maybe that will suprise you but in general textbooks for learning languages are in foreign for the learner language

not stupid, but was wanting a book that explained in english and .POLISH . not just polish...
scottie1113Threads: 11
Posts: 873
Joined: Mar 13, 07 ♂ 		 Nov 29, 11, 21:28    #81
I share your pain, but as my Polish teacher pointed out, even books for beginning students (A1 level) are written in English. It takes some some and a dictionary, but it's working for me, although slowly. Heep up the good fight fight. You're doing great.
a.k.  Nov 29, 11, 21:41    #82
pam:
but was wanting a book that explained in english


Then you must look for something written by English author I guess. The reason why textbooks are fully in a language taught is probably that the same book is issued on various countries but printed in one version.
pamThreads: 22
Posts: 463
Joined: Oct 11, 11  Gold Member MEMBER ♀ 		 Nov 29, 11, 21:41    #83
Chrzaszcz:
I'm also doing a lot of searching out on the internet and using Google Translate.

hi chrzaszcz, really admire your dedication to learning polish. do not use google translate. i was really happy at first to use it, until i got polish friends round. the translation is not good, and many of my polish friends agree. its been updated a bit, but the first sentence i typed in was...i am confused. answer was jestem pomylony. ok ,its sort of right, but a bit far off...i would not rely on it at all. not sure i will be ready for gcse polish soon, but its something to aim for. never studied latin at school, so are you a doctor in nhs? latin is pretty much a dead language in the uk these days?
pamThreads: 22
Posts: 463
Joined: Oct 11, 11  Gold Member MEMBER ♀ 		 Nov 29, 11, 21:59    #84
scottie1113:
I share your pain,

hopefully soon will not be in pain! have received mail for eleven polish lessons.IN ENGLISH AND POLISH. only looked at lesson 1 so far, but dont have problems understanding it. not looking too far ahead as maybe i will scare myself, but so far so good...rozumiem wszystko. i am a happy bunny, but think i will be very busy!
ChrzaszczThreads: 19
Posts: 136
Joined: Jul 4, 11 ♂ 		 Nov 29, 11, 22:23    #85
pam:
'm also doing a lot of searching out on the internet and using Google Translate.


I don't really tend to use it a lot - just for word queries.

Here's that link for the exam detail: POSK

http://www.polskamacierz.org/page0004.htm

It sounds as if you'd walk the exam pam - why not give it a try? I've been reading a few reports on GCSE exams. Roughly 70% of students are Polish kids who have just moved over here - they pass with flying colours! Only a minority of students are English nationals.

:-). Nie, nie jestem lekarzem - jestem urzędnikiem na NHS (Informacja i finance).
a.k.  Nov 29, 11, 22:49    #86
Chrzaszcz:
Roughly 70% of students are Polish kids who have just moved over here - they pass with flying colours!


Why Polish kids take an exam for their native language?
pamThreads: 22
Posts: 463
Joined: Oct 11, 11  Gold Member MEMBER ♀ 		 Nov 29, 11, 22:50    #87
Chrzaszcz:
It sounds as if you'd walk the exam pam - why not give it a try

hahaha! walk the exam? nie mozliwy teraz, sto lat pozniej moze...but i will never give up. i love trying to learn this language. have 11 lessons to learn now, thanks to someone who sent me fantastic mail...and i can understand it!! i know your polish is far better than mine, and although i know i have pretty good vocabulary, my grammar would let me down badly. your knowledge of word endings and cases is far superior to mine. how long have you been learning, and why did you start? would be interested to know
ChrzaszczThreads: 19
Posts: 136
Joined: Jul 4, 11 ♂ 		 Nov 29, 11, 22:53    #88
a.k.:
Why Polish kids take an exam for their native language?


I really don't know, but that seems to be the case! Perhaps it's one exam that they'll excel at (grade A, A*) and a good grade may help them integrate into the education system, knowing they've done well in an English-based qualification. Maybe...
WroclawThreads: 77
Posts: 7,404
Joined: Apr 1, 06  Pictures: 3 ♂ [Moderator] 		 Nov 29, 11, 23:04    #89
Chrzaszcz:
I really don't know, but that seems to be the case! Perhaps it's one exam that they'll excel at (grade A, A*) and a good grade may help them integrate into the education system, knowing they've done well in an English-based qualification. Maybe...


it's not a lot different to my bilingual kids taking english. why struggle with all the exams when there is one one can pass easily.
a.k.  Nov 29, 11, 23:16    #90
Wroclaw:
why struggle with all the exams when there is one one can pass easily.


Sadly, probably that's the reason. It's a real shame that they do that.

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