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móc or umieć


posts: 19

catsoldierThreads: 90
Posts: 697
Joined: Sep 27, 09 ♂ 		Edited by: catsoldier  Jan 12, 12, 20:47    #1
Should you use nie umiem or nie mogę when you can't do something, but it may or may not because you are doing it wrong?

I would say nie umiem if I didn't have the skills to do something

I would say nie mogę if it was impossible because parts or tools were missing etc. or the machine to do the job was broken

What do I say if I am not sure if it is me or the machine that is the problem?

I am using something for the first time, I shouldn't need to learn a skill to do this task because usually things like this are intuitive but I still can't do it. It could be me or the machine.
AlligatorThreads: -
Posts: 350
Joined: Dec 15, 10 ♂ 		 Jan 12, 12, 20:56    #2
You use nie umiem only in situations where something can't be done solely because of your lack of skills.
Nie mogę can be use when:
-something cant be done because of you
-can't be done because of some objective reasons, independent, unrelated to you.
gumishuThreads: 17
Posts: 3,943
Joined: Apr 6, 09  Pictures: 1 ♂ 		 Jan 12, 12, 20:58    #3
catsoldier:
I am using something for the first time, I shouldn't need to learn a skill to do this task because usually things like this are intuitive but I still can't do it. It could be me or the machine


You can say 'Nie dam rady tego zrobić'.
Lyzko  Jan 12, 12, 20:58    #4
Nie mogę. = I can't (am not allowed)
Nie umiem. = I don't know (can't____ because I don't have the knowledge/skill, hence the ability!)
Nie potrafię. = I can't (am physically unable)
f stopThreads: 33
Posts: 2,861
Joined: Dec 9, 09  Pictures: 1 ♀ 		 Jan 12, 12, 21:31    #5
my take is:
móc - to be able to, like physically
umieć - know how to, like learned knowledge
catsoldierThreads: 90
Posts: 697
Joined: Sep 27, 09 ♂ 		 Jan 12, 12, 23:00    #6
Thanks for all your help.
Lyzko  Jan 12, 12, 23:48    #7
Czym MOGĘ służyć? = How can/may I help you? ("With what MAY I serve?")

UMIESZ po niemiecku też, Gochu? = Can you speak/Do you know how to speak German too, Maggie?

Niestety nie POTRAFIĘ się spotkać z Tob± dzi¶ wieczór. = Unfortunately I'm unable to get together (with you) tonight.
catsoldierThreads: 90
Posts: 697
Joined: Sep 27, 09 ♂ 		 Jan 13, 12, 00:40    #8
Lyzko:
Niestety nie POTRAFIĘ się spotkać z Tob± dzi¶ wieczór. = Unfortunately I'm unable to get together (with you) tonight.

Dzięki Lyzko
Prof.Miodek  Jan 13, 12, 01:29    #9
Lyzko:
Niestety nie POTRAFIĘ się spotkać z Tob± dzi¶ wieczór. = Unfortunately I'm unable to get together (with you) tonight.

That's NOT right.
Niestety nie mogę sie z Tob± spotkać dzi¶ wieczór (wieczorem).Potrafić is used in regard to skills very similar to umieć and often interchangable e.g Potrafisz prowadzic czołg?
Lyzko  Jan 13, 12, 01:38    #10
Tak, ale jednak NIE "Potrafię po niemiecku.", lecz "Umiem po niemiecku."
Prof.Miodek  Jan 13, 12, 01:46    #11
Lyzko:
Tak, ale jednak NIE "Potrafię po niemiecku.", lecz "Umiem po niemiecku."

Either but an educated person like me would rather say Potrafię mówić po niemiecku instead of Umię mówić po niemiecku.Don't argue my man,you are not nat naitive speaker.
Prof.Miodek  Jan 13, 12, 01:47    #12
Umiem ofc not Umię.Sorry.
Lyzko  Jan 13, 12, 02:04    #13
To nie problem, panie profesorze! "Umię" jak "Rozumię"??:-)
My¶lałem może pan pisze tu po ukrainsku
LOL
Prof.Miodek  Jan 13, 12, 02:11    #14
Lyzko:
My¶lałem może pan pisze tu po ukrainsku

Ukrainians use cyrillic.Powinien pan to wiedzieć panie Lyzko.
gumishuThreads: 17
Posts: 3,943
Joined: Apr 6, 09  Pictures: 1 ♂ 		 Jan 13, 12, 11:55    #15
Lyzko:
Niestety nie POTRAFIĘ się spotkać z Tob± dzi¶ wieczór. = Unfortunately I'm unable to get together (with you) tonight.


this is plain wrong - as someone already stated POTRAFIć has everything to do with skill
gumishuThreads: 17
Posts: 3,943
Joined: Apr 6, 09  Pictures: 1 ♂ 		 Jan 13, 12, 12:14    #16
gumishu:
Lyzko:
Niestety nie POTRAFIĘ się spotkać z Tob± dzi¶ wieczór. = Unfortunately I'm unable to get together (with you) tonight.


this is plain wrong - as someone already stated POTRAFIć has everything to do with skill


potrafić can be contrasted with być w stanie - Potrafię rozwi±zywać takie zadania ale teraz nie jestem w stanie. I can solve such mathematical problems but I am not in the shape to now. (sometimes 'to able to' can well replace 'to be in a shape to' I think)
Lyzko  Jan 13, 12, 14:23    #17
Już wiem, jak pisze się po ukraińsku. Ale "umiĘ" jest ukraiński, nieprawda?
gumishuThreads: 17
Posts: 3,943
Joined: Apr 6, 09  Pictures: 1 ♂ 		 Jan 13, 12, 15:02    #18
Lyzko:
Już wiem, jak pisze się po ukraińsku. Ale "umiĘ" jest ukraiński, nieprawda?

ukraiński doesn't have the nasal vowels - I don't know about ukraiński - in Russian it's umieyu (in Polish transcription of of Russian it's umieju if it helps)
Lyzko  Jan 13, 12, 16:41    #19
No, dziękuję! Porz±dku:-)


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