'MOZNA' - When is this used?

vndunneThreads: 72 Posts: 340 Joined: Jan 12, 07 ♂	Oct 21, 09, 13:39 #1
Hi. I have been looking at a few phrase books and the term 'mozna' is coming up a bit. What is this word and what does it mean i.e. is it a verb? It seems to have the meaning 'can' and i was just wondering when you would use 'mozna' as opposed to 'moge'. Hope this makes some degree of sense? Thanks, vincent

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Edited by: Seanus Oct 21, 09, 13:58 #2
Można is impersonal and means 'can I?' or 'may I?'. You can say 'moge?' which is more personal. Sth like 'can one take it?' Vs 'can I take it?'. Take is used by way of example. I've found them to be interchangeable although the resident Polish experts may think differently.

vndunneThreads: 72 Posts: 340 Joined: Jan 12, 07 ♂	Oct 21, 09, 14:15 #3
Ah ok. That explains it. I was just getting use to asking my questions with 'Moge'(not that i can ask many) and then i came across a whole load of questions with 'mozna' and it confused me a bit. Thanks for clarifying. Vincent

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Oct 22, 09, 16:05 #4

Seanus:

Można is impersonal and means 'can I?' or 'may I?'

Not exactly. It can be used in such contexts, but for better understanding it'd translate it like: Is it allowed? or Is it possible? or Is it doable? It may also be used to answer there questions like:
(Czy) Można? (Tak,) można. Is it allowed? Yes, it is.

Gramatically, it is so called 'predykatyw' (not sure if it can be translated as 'predivative', because Wikipedia defines it a bit differently).
These words work in sentences as verbs, but are not verbs (i.e. they do not conjugate), and are used to describe some 'general state', not someone actions.
There are quite a few in Polish. e.g. można, trzeba, wiadomo, widać, słychać. They form tenses by using an auxiliary verb 'być' in the appropriate tense. E.g.:

Present Można - it is allowed to...
Past Można było (or było można) = it was allowed to...
Future Można będzie (or będzie można) = it will be allowed to...

They are a little similar in their function to adverbs, and historically they probably were adverbs.

Cinek

SzwedwPolsceThreads: 13 Posts: 1,915 Joined: Feb 21, 09 ♂	Edited by: SzwedwPolsce Oct 22, 09, 16:16 #5
Można = "is it allowed?" or "it's allowed", you can also change to word allowed to possible. Or: Seanus: Można is impersonal and means 'can I?' or 'may I?' Means basically the same thing. But można can be used wider than this.

vndunneThreads: 72 Posts: 340 Joined: Jan 12, 07 ♂	Oct 22, 09, 23:17 #6
Thanks very much for all that information. Certainly clears it up. Vincent

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Oct 22, 09, 23:23 #7
I was keeping it simple. Can I can be used in all the cases you said, cinek. I put it in a nutshell.

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Oct 25, 09, 18:08 #8

Hello!

In fact, there are certain impersonal verbs, such as "można", "warto" and "trzeba". They are often used in conditional mood. For example "Warto by zainteresować się tą sprawą". Notice that the particle "by" is written separately.

Since "można" means "can" or "it is possible to" it can be used in variety of different cases, which were described by Cinek.

Furthermore in the past, there were personal forms of the above mentioned verbs. Sometimes you can come across those forms in some old books.

LeonisThreads: 30 Posts: 60 Joined: Aug 15, 09 ♀	Dec 23, 09, 18:48 #9
piaskowy: "warto" And when do you use "warto"?

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Edited by: Ziemowit Dec 23, 09, 19:51 #10

I think the refrain of a Marian Hemar's song from 1934 will tell you that. You can play the two versions: the modern one is better in my view, but the original, pre-war one is definitely easier to follow for a non-native speaker (you can also hear the dark ł there as well as the -em instead of -ym endings).

Kochać nie warto, lubić nie warto,
Znaleźć nie warto i zgubić nie warto,
Chodzić nie warto i leżeć nie warto.
Przysiąc nie warto, uwierzyć nie warto!
Pieścić nie warto, pobić nie warto.
Stracić nie warto, zarobić nie warto,
Sprzedać nie warto, kupić nie warto.
Jedno, co warto - to upić się warto!

Upić się warto, upić się warto!
W szynku na rogu wygłupić się warto!
W dobrej kompanii popić, to warto!
Czystą kroplami zakropić, to warto!
Wódkę do łbów ponalewać, to warto!
Siedzieć, popijać i śpiewać, to warto!
Z sercem ściśniętym, z duszą otwartą,
Upić się, upić, to jedno, co warto!

www.youtube.com/watch?v=EcipyROBOeI

LeonisThreads: 30 Posts: 60 Joined: Aug 15, 09 ♀	Jan 28, 10, 20:41 #11
Thank you very much! A really edifying piosenka.

piaskowyThreads: - Posts: 15 Joined: Oct 25, 09 ♂	Jan 30, 10, 13:55 #12
"Warto" means "it is worth". For example - "Warto to zobaczyć" (or "To jest warte zobaczenia") = "It is worth seeing".

MichalThreads: - Posts: 2,408 Joined: Feb 27, 07 ♂	Edited by: Michal Feb 2, 10, 16:17 #13
vndunne This is not in fact a Polish word. It is, in fact, a Russian word, which has been incorporated into the Polish Language. In fact, the Poles have taken many Russian words over the generations. In Polish it is used just the same as in the original Russian Language and means, may I? Can I ? ect.

SzwedwPolsceThreads: 13 Posts: 1,915 Joined: Feb 21, 09 ♂	Feb 2, 10, 16:51 #14
Yes, Poland has borrowed many words from many countries. Actually almost all countries have done that. Doktor, chemia, komputer, satysfakcja etc.

Zman	Feb 2, 10, 18:55 #15
I beg to differ. "warto" must be clearly of german origin <--- Werte (worth, wartość)

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Edited by: Ksysia Feb 2, 10, 21:32 #16

Zman

would you also say that syn is of German origin - Sohn ???

some words are pra-indo-european, we share them.

Take the river Warta, that in German is called Warthe, I think. Warthegau.

The names of rivers are always the oldest names around, they just remain from times immemorial. Warta was once V.rt-a.(virta) From Sanskrit, to spin. Like the Dragon V.rtra.
The dot signifies r as a vowel, pronounced like a long soft tongue exercise.

The same for river Wieprz, the *PIE origin was *Vp.r-a. (vipera) The bigger river, Wisła, Vistula, was *Veisla, and it means the source, like other rivers - Wisłoka etc. Look at the map of Poland, there are other rivers which names are based on *veis. This root is now unused in Polish, but retained in German, which does not mean that Germans named the river. This name is 6-8 thousand years old.

Germanization of history has already been ridiculed. It's good to appreciate the German culture, but to say that everything comes from Alemania is clearly wrong. After all they have only been able to create a strong country when forced to, needed 500 years to win a battle with Poles after Grunwald, and paint everything white. Romans would laugh.

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Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Feb 2, 10, 21:41 #17

Ksysia:

This root is now unused in Polish, but retained in German, which does not mean that Germans named the river. This name is 6-8 thousand years old.

Well, Poles for surely not....as there were no Slavs in this territory at that time.

Ksysia:

After all they have only been able to create a strong country when forced to,

When you don't count the Holy Roman Empire of the german Nation, for a millennia (962 - 1806)...

Ksysia:

needed 500 years to win a battle with Poles after Grunwald,

Wot??? :):):)

KsysiaThreads: 39 Posts: 545 Joined: May 6, 09 ♀	Feb 2, 10, 22:52 #18
and there were no Germans. all the harder for words to originate from German Well - if you count the name, ok. I can name my house an Emipre, why not. I can even make it a wooden palisade, put in some fat guys and give them beer. Settled :) That!

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂	Feb 2, 10, 23:03 #19
Ksysia: I can even make it a wooden palisade, put in some fat guys and give them beer. Settled :) Now I just need an adress and I'm coming to the party! :)

KsysiaThreads: 39 Posts: 545 Joined: May 6, 09 ♀	Feb 2, 10, 23:16 #20
I knew you'd like the idea :D

musicwriterThreads: 7 Posts: 110 Joined: Jan 7, 10 ♂	Feb 22, 10, 03:38 #21
What is the meaning of Noteć (river)?

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Feb 22, 10, 07:40 #22

Michal:

his is not in fact a Polish word. It is, in fact, a Russian word, which has been incorporated into the Polish Language. In fact, the Poles have taken many Russian words over the generations. In Polish it is used just the same as in the original Russian Language and means, may I? Can I ? ect.

As usual you are full of crap.

The word "mozna" comes from a Proto Indoeuropean root mog- (to be able to). Hence we have words such as:

English - might
German - mögen
Polish - móc (mogę, można)
Icelandic (also Old Norse dialects) - mega

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Feb 22, 10, 11:46 #23

musicwriter:

What is the meaning of Noteć (river)?

most of the names of the rivers in Poland are unitelligible to Poles (they don't make sense in Polish or any other Slavic language) - it seems they are not Slavic in origin which fits nicely with the fact that Slavic tribes encroached upon Poland from the east somewhere in 5th 6th century AD - some argue that they have been led by nomadic Avars who were skilled mounted raiders

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