plural forms (cztery kubki / czternascie kubkow)

ryanbThreads: 28 Posts: 28 Joined: Apr 27, 11 ♂	Jul 13, 11, 01:10 #1
I am trying to learn some Polish before I move to Warsaw. I've been using Rosetta Stone. One thing that really leaves me confused is the plural forms. cztery kubki- 4 cups czternaście kubków - 14 cups What makes the form of cup different when there are four versus fourteen? I don't get it.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Jul 13, 11, 01:16 #2
Nice thread, ryanb. Highly practical. I'll let the resident Poles give you the best advice but you'll notice changes between 1, 2-4 and 5 onwards, e.g jedna butelka, dwie butelki and pięć/sześć butelek. I'd also like to improve in this area. Please be patient and you'll get good help. One thing I can say is beware of irregular examples, e.g jedna owca, dwie owce and sześć owiec.

gumishuThreads: 17 Posts: 3,943 Joined: Apr 6, 09 ♂	Jul 13, 11, 01:44 #3
ryanb: cztery kubki- 4 cups czternaście kubków - 14 cups What makes the form of cup different when there are four versus fourteen? I don't get it. all numbers above 4 require genitive (among them 14)

SzwedwPolsceThreads: 13 Posts: 1,915 Joined: Feb 21, 09 ♂	Edited by: SzwedwPolsce Jul 13, 11, 13:15 #4
gumishu: all numbers above 4 require genitive Not all numbers above 4. 1-4 nominative 5 and above = genitive. But with the the exception: Numbers above 19, ending with 1,2,3 or 4 require nominative. E.g. Mam 23 lata (nominative). Because it ends with 3. Mam 26 lat (genitive). Because it ends with 6.

Lyzko

Jul 13, 11, 13:44 #5

Szwedwpolsce, you continue to confirm in my mind anyway that often educated foreigners have studied a foreign language and know it better than many a native speaker. For instance, even Danes insist that Prof. Glyn-Jones' Reference Grammmar of the Danish Language is more comprehensive than anything in written by a Dane, George O. Curmes' weighty grammar of German, probably more complete than any single grammar written by a German in German, or Bruno Kress' 'Formenlehre des Islaendischen', more exhaustive in its declension tables than any book written in Icelandic by an Icelander etc...

SzwedwPolsceThreads: 13 Posts: 1,915 Joined: Feb 21, 09 ♂	Jul 13, 11, 15:15 #6
ryanb: I've been using Rosetta Stone. By the way. How does Rosetta Stone teach people grammar? I have noticed that many people using RS have poor grammar skills (when they try to construct their own sentences). In English it is often possible to understand a sentence, even if the grammar is poor. In Polish it can be difficult to understand such a sentence. It is a big difference.

PennBoyThreads: 157 Posts: 3,441 Joined: Dec 7, 08 ♂	Jul 13, 11, 15:19 #7
SzwedwPolsce: In Polish it can be difficult to understand such a sentence. It is a big difference. How's your Polish coming along SzwP? getting there?

♂

Jul 13, 11, 15:36 #8

SzwedwPolsce:

1-4 nominative
Numbers above 19, ending with 1,2,3 or 4 require nominative.

Not quite. Numbers above 19, ending with 2,3 or 4 require nominative. Numbers above 19, ending with 1 require genitve,

21 kubków

22 kubki

25 kubków

To sum up:

1 - 4 = nominatative

5 - 21 = genitive

And then:

22 - 24 = nominative

25 - 31 = genitive

32 - 34 = nominative

35 - 41 = genitive

And so on.

SzwedwPolsceThreads: 13 Posts: 1,915 Joined: Feb 21, 09 ♂	Edited by: SzwedwPolsce Jul 13, 11, 15:40 #9
Goury: Not quite. Numbers above 19, ending with 2,3 or 4 require nominative. Numbers above 19, ending with 1 require genitve, Yes, it is true. I wrote it too fast. I wrote ending with 1,2,3,4. But it should only be ending with 2,3,4, not 1. Good that you saw it. PennBoy: How's your Polish coming along SzwP? getting there? It is going in the right direction. :)

Lyzko	Jul 13, 11, 18:03 #10
Above one hundred, I'd figure (based on the greeting 'Sto lat!' not 'Sto laty!') that it's genitive followed by which ever base number number follows, e.g. One-hundred vs. One hundred-and-one houses etc..

♂

Jul 13, 11, 20:15 #11

Quite confusing. I'm glad I will be able to take a class once I get there. Polish will be my fourth language but the grammar is so different from English or the romance languages I have already learned. I think I'm gonna put away Rosetta stone for a while and concentrate on my grammar book. Rosetta is great for helping me with listening and pronunciation I think but it hasn't helped much with grammar at all.

BzibziohThreads: 6 Posts: 3,657 Joined: Oct 15, 08 ♀ [Suspended]	Jul 13, 11, 20:51 #12
ryanb: cztery kubki- 4 cups To confuse you even more cup=filiżanka kubek=mug

♀

Jul 13, 11, 23:07 #13

Lyzko:

Above one hundred, I'd figure (based on the greeting 'Sto lat!' not 'Sto laty!') that it's genitive followed by which ever base number number follows, e.g. One-hundred vs. One hundred-and-one houses etc..

100 - sto lat Gen
101 - sto jeden lat - Gen

102 - sto dwa lata - Nom
103- sto trzy lata - Nom
104 - sto cztery lata - Nom

105 - sto pięć lat - Gen
...

Always look at the last part of the numeral. With plural number, 2,3 and 4 are in Genitive case, all the rest take Nominative.
But note:
12- dwanaście lat - Gen
13 - trzynaście lat - Gen
14 - czternaście lat - Gen
- it's because 12, 13 and 14 are one-word numerals and not compounds.

Lyzko	Jul 13, 11, 23:18 #14
Brilliant, Strzyguśiu-:)) At least I was on the right track. As with many subjects, the more you think you know, the less you really do(....but eventually learn it better than if you thought you already knew it)!

SzwedwPolsceThreads: 13 Posts: 1,915 Joined: Feb 21, 09 ♂	Jul 13, 11, 23:26 #15
strzyga: With plural number, 2,3 and 4 are in Genitive case Ending in 0 (zero) is also in genitive. I forgot to write that earlier. 20 lat 100 lat and so on...

strzygaThreads: 4 Posts: 986 Joined: Apr 30, 08 ♀	Jul 13, 11, 23:46 #16
strzyga: With plural number, 2,3 and 4 are in Genitive case, all the rest take Nominative. of course the opposite is true. sorry for the confusion :) and I've even managed to lead Szwed astray ;) still what he said is true - 0 takes Genitive

♂

Edited by: SzwedwPolsce Jul 14, 11, 00:12 #17

I understand if this thread is a little confusing. But these rules are not so difficult if you just understand the principle.

I will try to summarize it quickly:

1-4 nominative
5 and above = genitive. But with the the exception:

Numbers above 19, ending with 2,3 or 4, require nominative.

(E.g.
Mam 23 lata (nominative). Because it ends with 3.
Mam 26 lat (genitive). Because it ends with 6.)

Also note that all numbers ending in 0 (zero) require genitive.

This is probably all you need to know about this thing.

Lyzko	Jul 14, 11, 17:47 #18
Na gospodarstwie jest tysiący dwa kotów, psów, i pięćset stołów... just a made-up sentence merely to continue to practice this concept. I realize mixed genders could reveal other issues-:) LOL

toja	Jul 14, 11, 20:36 #19
Na gospodarstwie jest dwa tysiące kotów i psów i pięćset stołów. If that's what you mean.

Lyzko	Jul 14, 11, 20:37 #20
Czy to znaczę? Tak jest-:)

Lyzko	Jul 14, 11, 23:47 #21
....ale, PIĘĆ tysięcy kobiet, koń itd.... -:))) LOL

grubasThreads: 20 Posts: 1,452 Joined: Feb 1, 10 ♂	Jul 14, 11, 23:50 #22
Lyzko: Na gospodarstwie jest tysiący dwa kotów, psów, i pięćset stołów... Lyzko: Czy to znaczę? Tak jest-:) Lyzko: ....ale, PIĘĆ tysięcy kobiet, koń itd.... You are funny.

Lyzko	Jul 14, 11, 23:57 #23
Tak, są dziwne zdania, tylko zaćwiczić liczby polskie!

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