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in Polish slang, what is the difference between Siema and Siemka?


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nikolaThreads: 3
Posts: 18
Joined: Dec 7, 07 ♀ 		 Feb 13, 08, 10:56    #1
I'm learning Polish and I talk to polish friends online, i'm just wondering what context to use Siema and Siemka in.

One of my polish friends said 'siemka' is diminutive or something, but i dont know what that means :S haha

Dzieki
x
JustysiaSThreads: 15
Posts: 2,869
Joined: Oct 14, 07  Pictures: 2  Gold Member MEMBER ♀ 		 Feb 13, 08, 11:22    #2
nikola wrote:
One of my polish friends said 'siemka' is diminutive or something


yes siemka is a dimunitive of siema. it makes it sound more 'cute'. its like my name Justyna, if you say Justynka it is a nicer way of saying it. just like calling a guy called George Georgie. Understand? lol
osiolThreads: 59
Posts: 4,714
Joined: Jul 25, 07 ♂ 		 Feb 13, 08, 11:44    #3
Same kinf od difference between siemano and siemanko?

JustysiaS wrote:
just like calling a guy called George Georgie

The only example I can think of is Georgie Fame & the Blue Flames. Otherwise, there are better examples. Sorry to pick holes, Justynka (which sounds quite bad in English, so I'd rather not say it in an English-0language environment).
scotThreads: -
Posts: 8
Joined: Dec 27, 07 ♂ 		 Feb 13, 08, 11:49    #4
osiol wrote:
The only example I can think of is Georgie Fame & the Blue Flames



There was Georgie Best as well :)
JustysiaSThreads: 15
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Joined: Oct 14, 07  Pictures: 2  Gold Member MEMBER ♀ 		 Feb 13, 08, 11:50    #5
osiol wrote:
Sorry to pick holes, Justynka


i dont mind other people helping me out. and yes thats why i use Justysia instead, i know just what the other one sounds like.
osiolThreads: 59
Posts: 4,714
Joined: Jul 25, 07 ♂ 		 Feb 13, 08, 11:53    #6
scot wrote:
There was Georgie Best as well :)

I was originally going to type that, but being more of a music man than a football man, I decided to change my mind, especially as the song 'Yeah Yeah' came into my head. I didn't want it to suddenly become a huge list of Georgies, thus undermining the lesser of the two points I was making in that post.

The more important point being the one about Siemano / Siemanko.

Hang on - talk about undermining my own posts - there was a third point, but that's probably best left alone for the time being...
JustysiaSThreads: 15
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Joined: Oct 14, 07  Pictures: 2  Gold Member MEMBER ♀ 		 Feb 13, 08, 11:56    #7
osiol wrote:
The more important point being the one about Siemano / Siemanko.


its the same situation like with siema and siemka, where siemanko is a dimunitive of siemano. siema and siemano is the same thing really.
osiolThreads: 59
Posts: 4,714
Joined: Jul 25, 07 ♂ 		 Feb 13, 08, 12:03    #8
Is it just a conglomeration of the words: się + ma(sz) + no?
It's just the 'no' I'm wondering about really.
I often get sidetracked into learning fairly useless things like this. Distractions, distractions...
VincentThreads: 15
Posts: 1,707
Joined: Sep 9, 07 ♂ [Moderator] 		 Feb 13, 08, 12:21    #9
excuse my ignorance...but I always thought dimunitive meant smaller/small.. so why is siemanko a dimunitive of siemano when it has an extra letter , making it bigger:):)
osiolThreads: 59
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Joined: Jul 25, 07 ♂ 		Edited by: osiol  Feb 13, 08, 12:24    #10
Vincent wrote:
so why is siemanko a dimunitive of siemano when it has an extra letter , making it bigger

Why is słoń such a small word? What would be the diminutive of this? Słonik?
edit:
I ask about elephants again, partly because I like them, ever-so-slightly because the question is almost relevant to the topic, but mostly because no-one asnwered this question last night.
DaveyThreads: 17
Posts: 436
Joined: Jun 29, 07 ♂ 		 Feb 13, 08, 12:26    #11
JustysiaS wrote:
i know just what the other one sounds like

hahah I didn't actually catch on until I said it out loud
osiolThreads: 59
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Joined: Jul 25, 07 ♂ 		 Feb 13, 08, 12:28    #12
Sounds like "Used in car."
JustysiaSThreads: 15
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Joined: Oct 14, 07  Pictures: 2  Gold Member MEMBER ♀ 		Edited by: JustysiaS  Feb 13, 08, 12:40    #13
Vincent wrote:
I always thought dimunitive meant smaller/small


in Polish dimunitive is "zdrobnienie". that comes from "drobny" which means "tiny". the cause of a dimunitive is not to make a word shorter, but to describe something "tiny", which usually results in adding to words. dimunitives will often have extra endings "stuck" to them, such as: -ka, -sia, -czka, -ek, -siek. Im gonna come back to my name again, im 22 and most people will call me Justyna or panna Justyna (miss Justyna) because im a grown up. Justynka is what people would call a Justyna who's for example 5 yeras old, because its a "tiny" Justyna. Whats "tiny" is often "cute" too (no rude comments here :P), so when it comes to siema and siemka or siemanko, the longer the version the "cuter" it is. And no it doesnt matter how big is the person you are about to say it to. I hope this helps.

osiol wrote:
Is it just a conglomeration of the words: się + ma(sz) + no?
It's just the 'no' I'm wondering about really.


yes you are right osiol. i wouldnt worry too much about "no", it coulve been any other couple of letters and it wouldnt make any difference to the actual meaning of the word. its like saying "hey" and "heya", the extra "a" does nothing to "hey". its a dimunitive.
lowfunk99Threads: 18
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Joined: Jan 7, 08 ♂ 		 Feb 13, 08, 12:49    #14
Osiol or Orsiolka?
JustysiaSThreads: 15
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Joined: Oct 14, 07  Pictures: 2  Gold Member MEMBER ♀ 		 Feb 13, 08, 12:51    #15
lowfunk99 wrote:
Osiol or Orsiolka?


if anything it would be Osiolek or Osioleczek . you could say Osliczka if he was a laydeee ;)
osiolThreads: 59
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Joined: Jul 25, 07 ♂ 		Edited by: osiol  Feb 13, 08, 12:52    #16
Osiołek

edit: I believe there is an opposite of diminutive - a kind of 'big bad' form some words can take.
Discuss in no more than 400 words.
lowfunk99Threads: 18
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Joined: Jan 7, 08 ♂ 		 Feb 13, 08, 12:52    #17
I know that, was being funny!
JustysiaSThreads: 15
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Joined: Oct 14, 07  Pictures: 2  Gold Member MEMBER ♀ 		 Feb 13, 08, 12:58    #18
osiol wrote:
I believe there is an opposite of diminutive - a kind of 'big bad' form some words can take.


yes there is, its called "zgrubienie". fine be like that, i wont explain it then.

:P
osiolThreads: 59
Posts: 4,714
Joined: Jul 25, 07 ♂ 		 Feb 13, 08, 13:00    #19
JustysiaS wrote:
yes there is, its called "zgrubienie". fine be like that, i wont explain it then

Please explain it.
Pretty please.
Prosiaczek!
Shawn_H  Feb 13, 08, 13:02    #20
JustysiaS wrote:
zgrubienie

Please, give us an example.

Take the common Ass for example (not the animal kind...)
VincentThreads: 15
Posts: 1,707
Joined: Sep 9, 07 ♂ [Moderator] 		 Feb 13, 08, 13:05    #21
JustysiaS wrote:
I hope this helps



yes it does ...many thanks for detailed explanation :)
JustysiaSThreads: 15
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Joined: Oct 14, 07  Pictures: 2  Gold Member MEMBER ♀ 		Edited by: JustysiaS  Feb 13, 08, 13:35    #22
Ok, zgrubienie works just like zdrobnienie (dimunitive) - you have extra endings that are being added to words, but it gives them a mostly negative meaning, or in some cases it underlines "greatness" or "big size". The endings will be for example -isko, -izda, - al, -ska. How about we use my name again ;). It would be Justysica or Justysizda, and depending in what context you use them they will be either negative, or just playful/sarcy. More examples: nose(nos) - nochal(big nose, ugly nose), zamek(castle) - zamczysko(huge castle), król(king) - królisko(big king), osioł- oślisko(huge donkey, ugly donkey). As you have probably noticed, by adding a dimunitive or a zgrubienie (not sure what that would be in English), not only you get a few extra letters at the end, but often the whole word looks different and some letters that were originally in it get replaced by others. yet again, hope it helps!
osiolThreads: 59
Posts: 4,714
Joined: Jul 25, 07 ♂ 		 Feb 13, 08, 13:51    #23
JustysiaS wrote:
zgrubienie (not sure what that would be in English),

Not really English, but I occasionally borrow a German uber-
I am the uberdonkey!
Doesn't work in a serious context.

JustysiaS wrote:
hope it helps!

Yes, but then there is the rest of the grammar to throw into the mix.
JustysiaSThreads: 15
Posts: 2,869
Joined: Oct 14, 07  Pictures: 2  Gold Member MEMBER ♀ 		 Feb 13, 08, 13:53    #24
osiol wrote:
Yes, but then there is the rest of the grammar to throw into the mix.


i know and its not fun at all. didnt even wanna start on that.
KrzysztofThreads: 2
Posts: 1,146
Joined: Jul 26, 07 ♂ 		Edited by: Krzysztof  Feb 13, 08, 19:03    #25
JustysiaS wrote:
zgrubienie (not sure what that would be in English)

pejorative

JustysiaS wrote:
mostly negative meaning, or in some cases it underlines "greatness" or "big size"

definitely the first option (negative meaning), diminutive is more two-ways (smaller or nicer).
JustysiaS wrote:
zamczysko(huge castle), król(king) - królisko(big king)

zamczysko - dark, unpleasant castle (with nasty ghosts, for example :)


Shawn_H wrote:
Take the common Ass for example (not the animal kind...)


dupa - ass (arse, bottom)
dupeńka, dupcia - diminutives
dupsko - pejorative

osioł - ass/donkey
osiołek - diminutive (to underline that it's a nice ass)
oślątko - diminutive (to create "baby" version of the big animal, so a young offspring of donkeys)
cherutto  Feb 17, 08, 00:25    #26
what is the polish word for asking-what?
ksanjayThreads: 2
Posts: 26
Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂ 		 Feb 17, 08, 03:47    #27
A very informative/useful discussion.
Thanks Justysias.
Feel like starting my polish lessons again, which I had stopped some time back :).
JustysiaSThreads: 15
Posts: 2,869
Joined: Oct 14, 07  Pictures: 2  Gold Member MEMBER ♀ 		 Feb 17, 08, 06:33    #28
ksanjay wrote:
Thanks Justysias.
Feel like starting my polish lessons again, which I had stopped some time back :).


ha ha glad i could help, i still surprisingly remember stuff from school so i thought i would share. thank Krzysztof, he's smarter than me by the looks of it ha ha.
nikolaThreads: 3
Posts: 18
Joined: Dec 7, 07 ♀ 		Edited by: nikola  Feb 23, 08, 11:40    #29
thanks everyoneee :)

cherutto wrote:
what is the polish word for asking-what?


'Co' pronounced 'tso' i believe :)
Shawn_H  Feb 23, 08, 11:42    #30
Krzysztof wrote:
dupeńka, dupcia - diminutives

Thanks K, I missed this one!

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