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że & iż


posts: 16

Polonius3Threads: 1,005
Posts: 4,834
Joined: Apr 11, 08 ♂ 		 Jan 10, 10, 12:35    #1
I was taught that iż is used in a sentence when że has already appeared so as not to be repetitive. One example:

On uważa, że ojciec już wszystkim mówił, iż pochodzi z Hiszpanii.
(as opposed to)
On uważa, że ojciec już wszsytkim mówił, że pochodzi z Hiszpanii.

Is this an iron-clad rule or simply a question of stylistic preference?
noreenbThreads: 4
Posts: 1,082
Joined: Apr 22, 09  Pictures: 3 ♀ 		 Jan 10, 10, 12:57    #2
"Iż" is a bit oldfashioned word.
In spoken language it doesn't sound very natural. It is used in books mostly.
rafikThreads: 21
Posts: 740
Joined: Jun 22, 06 ♂ 		 Jan 10, 10, 13:01    #3
Nobody says "iż" nowadays.I always say "że"
LenkaThreads: -
Posts: 241
Joined: Nov 17, 09 ♀ 		 Jan 10, 10, 13:07    #4
In spoken language it's really rarely used but you can still hear this sometimes.In written language it's still in use as you said to avoid repetition.
SzwedwPolsceThreads: 13
Posts: 1,915
Joined: Feb 21, 09 ♂ 		Edited by: SzwedwPolsce  Jan 10, 10, 13:26    #5
Polonius3:
On uważa, że ojciec już wszsytkim mówił, że pochodzi z Hiszpanii.

Does anyone think this sentence sounds bad?
ZiemowitThreads: 10
Posts: 1,063
Joined: May 8, 09 ♂ 		 Jan 10, 10, 13:27    #6
"Iż" is a borrowing from the Czech language and in fact has never been used in spoken language in Polish. Everyone who uses it this way sounds a bit silly (unless he is a politician, but they typically speak as if they were reading a newspaper, so instead of telling you: nie wiem, they will say: nie mam takiej wiedzy, which is unacceptable for a decent newspaper) ... but you can spot "iż" quite often in the press.
MagdalenaThreads: 5
Posts: 1,389
Joined: Aug 15, 07 ♀ 		 Jan 10, 10, 13:33    #7
Ziemowit:
"Iż" is a borrowing from the Czech language

Not true. The Czechs use "že" as well. ;-P
strzygaThreads: 4
Posts: 986
Joined: Apr 30, 08 ♀ 		Edited by: strzyga  Jan 10, 10, 13:46    #8
SzwedwPolsce:
On uważa, że ojciec już wszsytkim mówił, że pochodzi z Hiszpanii.Does anyone think this sentence sounds bad?

It's perfectly OK in speech, but in writing one of the "że"-s would need to be replaced with "iż". It's a matter of good style really. Check in any novel.
Usually the first one remains "że" and the second changes into "iż", but it depends on the sentence, can be the other way around.
SzwedwPolsceThreads: 13
Posts: 1,915
Joined: Feb 21, 09 ♂ 		 Jan 10, 10, 14:00    #9
strzyga:
It's perfectly OK in speech, but in writing one of the "że"-s would need to be replaced with "iż". It's a matter of good style really. Check in any novel.
Usually the first one remains "że" and the second changes into "iż", but it depends on the sentence, can be the other way around.

Ok, thanks.
ZiemowitThreads: 10
Posts: 1,063
Joined: May 8, 09 ♂ 		 Jan 10, 10, 14:03    #10
Magdalena:
Not true. The Czechs use "že" as well. ;-P

I didn't say that the Czechs don't use "že". I said that the "iż" is a borrowing to Polish from Czech.
MagdalenaThreads: 5
Posts: 1,389
Joined: Aug 15, 07 ♀ 		 Jan 10, 10, 15:07    #11
Ziemowit:
I said that the "iż" is a borrowing to Polish from Czech.

In order for the Poles to be able to borrow "iż" from Czech, the Czechs would have to use it. They don't, and as far as I know, never did.
Polonius3Threads: 1,005
Posts: 4,834
Joined: Apr 11, 08 ♂ 		 Jan 11, 10, 10:09    #12
BTW obywatel was also borrowed form the Czechs. According to Polish word-forming convention it should have been obywaciel like nauczyciel, przyjaciel, etc.
ZiemowitThreads: 10
Posts: 1,063
Joined: May 8, 09 ♂ 		 Jan 11, 10, 11:20    #13
Obywaciel would sound great (although a bit silly after all); we're so accustomed to it in Polish that I'd never have thought it might be a Czech word originally!

Anyway, I think Magdalena is right about the "iż". I have simply confounded it with the word "ponieważ", and it is of this word that my printed source of the history of the Polish language states that it was a borrowing from Czech and is seldom used in speech, belonging basically to the world of writing.
asikThreads: 2
Posts: 547
Joined: Feb 17, 09 ♀ 		 Jan 11, 10, 12:57    #14
rafik:
Nobody says "iż" nowadays.I always say "że"

yes! I agree , but "że" is not a good word ...
noone says "iż" nowodays we use, ponieważ, lub, bo means "because" or depends on sentence...
strzygaThreads: 4
Posts: 986
Joined: Apr 30, 08 ♀ 		 Jan 11, 10, 13:37    #15
Obywaciel for me sounds like cielak - obywacielak anybody?

Somehow I don't have such connotations with nauczyciel and przyjaciel.
nanaThreads: -
Posts: 48
Joined: Sep 7, 09 ♀ 		 Jan 13, 10, 00:33    #16
I speak ;) maybe not so often but it happens. In written language is quite common.


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