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AK and UPA cooperation: joint attack on Soviets in Hrubieszow (1946)


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NathanThreads: 33
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 Jun 20, 10, 23:06    #31
Torq:
I already signed this, but the document still waits for your signature, Nat.

I have signed in my heart many years ago, but gladly will do it again. Signed.

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11
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Edited by: Bratwurst Boy  Jun 20, 10, 23:09    #32
*applause and happy cheers*

*music starts to play*

The buffet is opened gentlemen! :)
NathanThreads: 33
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 Jun 20, 10, 23:15    #33
Bratwurst Boy:
*applause and happy cheers*

*music starts to play*

The buffet is opened gentlemen! :)

Thanks, BB. Let's celebrate! (It should be definitely done on the international level and I believe it will)
1jolaThreads: 33
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 Jun 20, 10, 23:18    #34
For the record. Any propagating of Nazi and communist ideology or symbolism carries a 2 year prison term in Poland. You people in Ukraine might be reading some propaganda saying otherwise, but that is the law.

In Ukraine, marching with SS banners is fine and often done. They march along UPA fans and the neo-Nazi UNA/UNSO.

Any march with Nazi symbols in Poland would be promply lynched, before the police could react.

I do feel for you guys though that you are becoming a Russian republic again. It is not smart to alienate us by all this UPA stuff. You are making enemies out of friends. Your call though. Your future is with Russia, everybody's friend now, some say.
TorqThreads: 65
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Edited by: Torq  Jun 20, 10, 23:19    #35
Nathan:
I have signed in my heart many years ago, but gladly will do it again. Signed.


Hrubieszów Agreement

Bratwurst Boy:

*applause and happy cheers*

*music starts to play*

The buffet is opened gentlemen! :)


Thank you, BB. We are glad that our allies appreciate our reconcilliation with Ukraine.
Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11
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Edited by: Bratwurst Boy  Jun 20, 10, 23:22    #36
Torq:
Thank you, BB. We are glad that our allies appreciate our reconcilliation with Ukraine.


We need and want our neighbours happy and content...everything else is just to much stress!
But overcoming old historical grudges and grievances is hard work what requires a mighty strong good will from all.
I don't want our neck of the woods ending up like the Balkans where they still refight differences from 1000 years back.

*goes for some piece of cheese cake from the buffet*
BorrkaThreads: 49
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 Jun 20, 10, 23:23    #37
Nathan:
gladly will do it again. Signed.


The deal is perfect and I see in my mind's eye the united Polish-Ukrainian troops heading East towards Moscow.
Like many times before LOL.
1jolaThreads: 33
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 Jun 20, 10, 23:24    #38
You forgot our church in Lwow in your misty eyed agreement, Torq, but what do you care.
Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11
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Edited by: Bratwurst Boy  Jun 20, 10, 23:27    #39
1jola:
You forgot our church in Lwow in your misty eyed agreement, Torq, but what do you care.


Such things are much easier to negotiate in a better, friendlier atmosphere...
There will be found an agreement for sure, but reconciliation needs to come first!

Germany too hopes for an agreement about the Berlinka...for now we have to be content that our treasures are cared for in Krakau.
TorqThreads: 65
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 Jun 20, 10, 23:27    #40
1jola:
You forgot our church in Lwow in your misty eyed agreement, Torq, but what do you care.


Security! Get this man out of here - he's interrupting the ceremony.
Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11
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 Jun 20, 10, 23:28    #41
Torq:
Security! Get this man out of here - he's interrupting the ceremony.


Nah...a piece of cheese cake should to the trick too! :)
TorqThreads: 65
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Edited by: Torq  Jun 20, 10, 23:36    #42
Bratwurst Boy:
Nah...a piece of cheese cake should to the trick too! :)


Good. Give him some vodka too - he's a bit stubborn, but a good man! :)

*retires to his room to get some sleep after difficult negotiations:
добраніч! Dobranoc! Gute Nacht!*

NathanThreads: 33
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 Jun 20, 10, 23:36    #43
I found some Wikipedia quote :
June 20, 2010 Hrubieszow agreement was signed for the first time in international practice online by Torq and Nathan and testified by Bratwurst Boy. This agreement openned a new era in the world's peaceful coexistance of two nations that should have been signed and kept millions times before, and finally did :)

Bratwurst Boy:
Nah...a piece of cheese cake should to the trick too! :)

Absolutely! Jola, please, grab a slice of this delicious cake and let's drink to friendship and mutual understanding.
Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11
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Edited by: Bratwurst Boy  Jun 20, 10, 23:37    #44
What a successful evening, but have to go now to!

*tips hat and bows out*

Gute Nacht Gentlemen :)

*totters home*
MareGaeaThreads: 45
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 Jun 20, 10, 23:40    #45
Nathan:
mutual understanding


Mutual understanding...now that would be nice...:)

Bratwurst Boy:
Gute Nacht


Gute Nacht, Goede nacht, Good night, Bonne Nuit and so on :)

>^..^<

M-G (off to bed too)
NathanThreads: 33
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 Jun 20, 10, 23:40    #46
All the best to you guys. Have a great upcoming week.
1jolaThreads: 33
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 Jun 21, 10, 08:47    #47
Ok, I guess if Akowcy and Banderowcy could cooperate after real hate for each other, not cyber hate, then I don't see why we, their descendents, and keyboard warriors at best, can't either.

Searching for a common enemy since our forces have just doubled, searching... :)

What have the Russians done to us lately? :)
NathanThreads: 33
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Edited by: Nathan  Jun 21, 10, 14:29    #48
1jola:
Ok, I guess if Akowcy and Banderowcy could cooperate after real hate for each other, not cyber hate, then I don't see why we, their descendents, and keyboard warriors at best, can't either.

Searching for a common enemy since our forces have just doubled, searching... :)

Happy to hear that, brother. And yes, our forces are doubled and you know that historically it always meant bad times for our enemies. That's why building hatred between us was their main policy for centuries. To Poland and Ukraine!!!
*Nathan takes some cheese cake with raisins (damn, BB brought some huge pie) with fresh brewed coffee and goes on the porch to listen to the birds' chirping*
porzeczkaThreads: -
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 Jun 21, 10, 18:00    #49
Torq:
There will be special groups of historians and researchers commisioned to examine in depth the common history and all available sources to come up with a common version of historical events, acceptable to both sides.

There was/is: Poland-Ukraine: Difficult Questions

Here is what was established by them (volume 9, page 448):
In spring 1943, after the Ukrainian police in the German service had joined UPA, Ukrainian nationalist guerrilla groups started to expand rapidly.
In spring 1943, OUN and UPA began massive anti-Polish actions, first in the eastern districts of Volhynia and then in its central and western parts. The course of events indicates that the decision on the extermination (according to Polish historians) or removal (according to Ukrainian historians) of the Polish population could be taken by OUN Leadership (Provid) in spring 1943.
In the Polish-Ukrainian conflict that reached its peak in Volhynia in 1943 the Polish population was a side that was defending itself against annihilation. In mid-1943, the UPA forces numbered some 20,000 armed people, and towards the end 1943 they reached 35-40,000 (excluding 'Self-defense' Kush Units). On the other hand, the Polish guerrilla troops that started to be organized in the second half of July 1943 had only some 1,300 people.

I'm for Polish-Ukrainian reconciliation and mutual understanding, but not for toleration of lies written by some people.
Nathan:
You even made a dump out of a cemetary and cry about L'viv mayor council which completely reconstructed Polish cemetary in L'viv. When will you do it in Pawlokoma?
Until then I hope it will be the city's property and people enjoy organ music. The Soviets stole everything from it and I am happy L'viv brought it back to life.

Pawlokoma Cemetery doesn't look like a garbage dump. The photo from there is also on the wiki page.
pawlokoma
It is nice that L'viv mayor let the Poles to reconstruct the Polish cemetery in Lviv :) which was unfortunately destroyed by Ukrainians.
Up to 1971 many of the sculptures were destroyed; the cemetery of Lviv Eaglets was completely destroyed and turned into a truck depot. There were attempts to crush the triumphal arch with tanks, and in the 1970s, bulldozers razed most of the tombs.[2]

The issue has resurfaced several times in the Polish-Ukrainian relations;[3]
however, in 1989 the reconstruction works have begun, carried by local Polonia and Polish workers working temporarily in Lviv. Eventually the Cemetery of the Defenders of Lviv was reopened on 24 June 2005 when the Lviv City Council that initially resisted the opening[3][2] finally gave its approval, following Polish support for Ukraine's Orange Revolution (2004).[2][4]

Keep this party going :)
SashaThreads: 2
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 Jun 21, 10, 18:45    #50
MediaWatch:
Let's not forget, as you say THE SOVIETS made the Ukrainians and Poles hate each other as much as possible.


The claim doesn't have legs to stand on. If you're talking about communists then it wouldn't be out of place to mention that they're crucial concept was to fight the class, not the nation. Furthermore an internationalism was their agenda which makes your claim sound somewhat ridiculous as if it was copy-pasted from any American newspaper. :)
Their purpose was to eliminate hostile (towards the system) elements in both the USSR and in Poland, no matter what their nationality was. Let's not forget, there were loads of Ukrainians and Poles who at the very least weren't interested in opposing the communists.
The bail "the Soviet made them hate each other" which was thrust under your nose to distract one's attention from the real atrocities was successfully swallowed. Congrats!

Borrka:
The deal is perfect and I see in my mind's eye the united Polish-Ukrainian troops heading East towards Moscow.
Like many times before LOL.


oops... someone couldn't refrain from naming his dreams. :) Well... it's about a level of an ordinary Russian jingo.


Nathan:
To Poland and Ukraine!!!


Hm.. you forgot. :) "Na Moskvu"!
Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11
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Edited by: Bratwurst Boy  Jun 21, 10, 19:20    #51
Sasha:
The claim doesn't have legs to stand on.


It's true Sasha!
Divide and Conquer...make Poles and Ukrainian nationalists hate each other to make sure they will never unite against their common enemy.
Plant russian nationals in the occupied countries to make sure there won't be any successfull nationalist independence movements.
Look at the baltics, the Ukraine, now Kirgisistan...the shadow of Stalin is still long and dark.

Oh yes, the Sovietunion Empire was all about "internationalism" as long as the central was in Moscow and nobody else had something to say...agressively anti-nationalist actually.

Nationalists were the enemies of the red empire! They wanted indepedence, freedom for their people, valuing their own heritage.

It was only logical to paint them all black in the soviet teachings (and I think the school history didn't differ that much in commie times) and make one nationalist hate the other....making sure there won't be found any common ground, the common enemy - divide and conquer in it's purest form!
SashaThreads: 2
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Edited by: Sasha  Jun 21, 10, 19:30    #52
Bratwurst Boy:
Divide and Conquer...make Poles and Ukrainian nationalists hate each other to make sure they will never unite.


BB that was a way more plausible for hitler who has used a bunch of ukrainian nationalists for their own purposes and threw them away while he didn't need them anymore having apparent plans on fertile Ukrainian lands. All Slavs would get the unscheduled "e" on the last syllable if not... yes... if not Soviets (i.e. Russians, Ukrainians or whoever who fought for their country no matter if it was bad or good). :)
BB I clearly understand why you side with Nat in this thread. ;)

P.S. If German fascists were criminals in this war then UPA-soldiers dimwitted criminals... it had been clear as a day long before the actions, Germany wouldn't have allowed banderowcam to get their own piece of land. Never ever.

Bratwurst Boy:
Nationalists were the enemies of the red empire! They wanted indepedence, freedom for their people, valuing their own heritage.


a counterquestion... would Luzatian Sorbs be enemies of Germany if one day they followed KosMet scenario which you (Germans) wholeheartedly approved?

Bratwurst Boy:
It was only logical to paint them all black in the soviet teachings


There was no need to... they contrived doing that themselves.

Bratwurst Boy:
and make one nationalist hate the other....making sure there won't be found any common ground


Nationalists (if stick with the negative connotation of this word which was the case at least for banderowci) can't find common ground with anybody by default. Their plan was absolutely clear and firm: erase Russians, Poles and Jews by all means, either way.
Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11
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Edited by: Bratwurst Boy  Jun 21, 10, 19:35    #53
Sasha:
BB I clearly understand why you side with Nat in this thread. ;)


The problem with Hitler was he was to stupid to play the game right, as the Soviets did for many decades.
IF he had played "Divide and Conquer" with all these peoples on his way to Moscow you would speak German today. They would had come to help the Wehrmacht running left and right!
As it was he preferred his utterly stupid race-ideology, throwing all eastern people into the same pot, to smart, far sighted politics.

I side with Nathan because this old, bloody game started by Stalin is still the legacy in all ex-Soviet republics and I'm sick of it that even after the demise of the Soviet Empire people find it so hard to reconcile, to look behind it and to cut it.

Sasha:
it had been clear as a day long before the actions, Germany wouldn't have allowed banderowcam to get their own piece of land. Never ever.


They had been desperate for wanting to believe the Germans of all people..but...who made them so desperate?

Sasha:
a counterquestion... would Luzatian Sorbs be enemies of Germany if one day they followed KosMet scenario which you (Germans) wholeheartedly approved?


KosMet?
NathanThreads: 33
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 Jun 21, 10, 21:28    #54
porzeczka:
Up to 1971 many of the sculptures were destroyed; the cemetery of Lviv Eaglets was completely destroyed and turned into a truck depot. There were attempts to crush the triumphal arch with tanks, and in the 1970s, bulldozers razed most of the tombs.[2]

You know who uses tanks on live people and dead people on cemetaries: Hungary 1956, Czech republic 1968, Lithuania 1990.
Here is what I found:
After the collapse of the Soviet Union and the formation of an independent Ukraine, work began on the restoration of the "Eaglets' Cemetery," although slowed by opposition of local nationalists. Following Polish support for Ukraine's Orange Revolution (2004), the opposition declined and the Cemetery was officially reopened in a Polish-Ukrainian ceremony on June 24, 2005. The last surviving Lwow Eaglet, Major Aleksander Sałacki (born 12 May 1904), died in Tychy, on April 5, 2008.

Good example how Polish-Ukrainian cooperation brings more than hatred instigated by outside forces.
porzeczka:
I'm for Polish-Ukrainian reconciliation and mutual understanding

That's all that really matters.
porzeczka:
Keep this party going :)

You are not leaving, are you? There are so many gentlemen sipping on wine and eating delicious cheese cake with raisins and no ladies, except you. So please, be kind to keep us some company and I assure you the evening will make you more than happy and cheerful. And for all of us, men, it would be even greater pleasure to revolve around a little sun than to wander like crazy planets around in a dissarray with some black hole on the horizon :)
Sasha:
it's about a level of an ordinary Russian jingo.

He is a prime minister now, isn't he?
Sasha:
There was no need to... they contrived doing that themselves.

Oh come on, Sasha, who you would be lying to here? There people both in Ukraine and Russia that still build Stalin monuments even though there are tons of information in libraries, internet, TV, freedom of speech (which starts to be pressed on) about 41,000 personal signatures by Stalin to kill from a regular man to his close comrades. This doesn't include Polish soldiers in Katyn or Soviet higher military command in 1938. If this sytem managed to brainwash people to the level of outrageous stupidity that even 20 years cannot erase, then how much more hatred, unbased and often invented, be more hardly planted into inter-national relations.
Bratwurst Boy:
Oh yes, the Sovietunion Empire was all about "internationalism" as long as the central was in Moscow and nobody else had something to say...agressively anti-nationalist actually.

Sasha:
Their plan was absolutely clear and firm: erase Russians, Poles and Jews by all means, either way.

Somehow, we didn't organize Holodomor against Russians, starving around 10 million people in 2 year, one in 1932-33, the othe in 1947, not mentioning 1921. We didn't built Gulags in Siberia, where Poles, Germans, Jews and Ukrainians died in millions after forced deportation, exhaustive labor. We didn't make "Three wheat stalks law" in 1932 where starving people in Ukraine who were caught with more than a handful of wheat picked up in the fields already cleaned by Soviets were punished as anti-state thieves who steal from the state property.
Some sources claim there were several legislative acts adopted in order to force starvation in the Ukrainian SSR. On August 7, 1932, the Soviet government passed a law, "On the Safekeeping of Socialist Property", [12] that imposed penalties starting at a ten year prison sentence and up to the death penalty for any theft of socialist property. [13] [14] [15] Stalin personally appended the stipulation: "People who encroach on socialist property should be considered enemies of the people."[citation needed] Within the first five months of passage of the law, 54,645 individuals had been imprisoned under it, and 2,110 sentenced to death. The initial wording of the decree, "On fought with speculation”, adopted August 22, 1932, lead to common situations where minor acts such as bartering tobacco for bread were documented as punished by 5 years imprisonment. After 1934, by NKVD demand, the penalty for minor offenses was limited to a fine of 500 rubles or three months of correctional labor. [16]

Somehow you came not to your homes, but ours. And for you OUN-B are dimwitted, why? because you are so smart? Somehow Jews were fighting within UPA with honorary distinguishment. A few years of craziness that occurred in Ukrainian-Polish relations was the only thing that kept us apart for so long. And yes, Soviet Union worked on destroying trust and insert hatred into neighbors. Now it is continued by Russia (please, don't sigh here). I posted some info on Kyrgyztan and policies within SU as well as BB in posts above said about what you know more than very well. Face it, the system is still alive and since technological progress and some interesting discoveries in medicine or other sciences is not of particular interest of unsatiable land-grabbers sitting on the 1/9th of the world and still dreaming of more, we will have more conflicts to come.
SashaThreads: 2
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Edited by: Sasha  Jun 21, 10, 22:39    #55
Nathan:
We didn't built Gulags in Siberia, where Poles, Germans, Jews and Ukrainians died in millions after forced deportation, exhaustive labor.


Firstly, Nat, I would love to mention that there can't be any serious discussion on the topic as long as you meaningly avoid the use of the word "Russian" in a dodgy situations. :) Your personal stance against the Russians makes your whole notion sound within an inch of a gracious smile. No more than that...

Nathan:
Somehow, we didn't organize Holodomor against Russians, starving around 10 million people in 2 year


One thing is out of my grasp. Why are you purposely trying to represent things the way as if Ukraine wasn't a part of the USSR at that time? :) The Russians starved too. Or should I say "the Soviets" since they're synonyms in your lexicon? Do not fool yourself... the Ukrainians were as Soviet as Russians if not more at times... ;)
The Russians starved too. Write it down somewhere before you're not blank on that fact over again.

Nathan:
We didn't built Gulags in Siberia, where Poles, Germans, Jews and Ukrainians died in millions after forced deportation, exhaustive labor


That's for sure. You preferred to shot people on the spot. Oops... did I say "shot"? My bad... you preferred not to spend a bullet on civilians burning them alive. :)

Nathan:
We didn't make "Three wheat stalks law" in 1932 where starving people in Ukraine who were caught with more than a handful of wheat picked up in the fields already cleaned by Soviets were punished as anti-state thieves who steal from the state property.


I thought that sort of whining would only work on some American forum. :)

Nathan:
Somehow Jews were fighting within UPA with honorary distinguishment.


I bet one could find among them Russians (never say that though or the spirit of Bandera will punish you)... unfortunately.... it took being loyal to join you.. :) And Jews have always been notorious for their moral principles. Let's face it.

Nathan:
Now it is continued by Russia (please, don't sigh here).


I will. :)

Nathan:
Oh come on, Sasha, who you would be lying to here?


Lying?.. still waiting for your disproof of UPA's atrocities.

Nathan:
There people both in Ukraine and Russia that still build Stalin monuments even though there are tons of information in libraries, internet, TV, freedom of speech


Wait a second... so you justify your and your team-mates worshiping to Bandera by existence of Stalin-worshiper. Ok, that works. But I've never actually said your opinion have no rights to exist. I just find it false and outdated, precisely the way I think about stalinists.

Nathan:
If this sytem managed to brainwash people to the level of outrageous stupidity that even 20 years cannot erase


Says who? :) The alive specimen of the system brainwashing? Think at leisure what brought you to a point where you are right now... and please assess how much of that were your emotions "Ukrainian "historian" said that...". In the mean time I've never said everything is perfect here. But at least I have a gut to say so.

Nathan:
He is a prime minister now, isn't he?


Do not want to advocate him but he never out forward westward-ideas.

Bratwurst Boy:
IF he had played "Divide and Conquer" with all these peoples on his way to Moscow you would speak German today.


Pls check the number of nations collaborating with Germans. You've lost just face it... at a high price though.
Yet considering the number of ungrateful that would be interesting just for a moment to see how things would have been, if Adik had managed to realize his plans.

Bratwurst Boy:
As it was he preferred his utterly stupid race-ideology


Now check the number of racist posts at least on this forum and reevaluate your judgement. :)

Bratwurst Boy:
bloody game started by Stalin is still the legacy in all ex-Soviet republics and I'm sick of it that even after the demise of the Soviet Empire people find it so hard to reconcile, to look behind it and to cut it.


BB it's your own opinion. No more than that. :) I see here lame attempts to sanitize Adik.

Bratwurst Boy:
They had been desperate for wanting to believe the Germans of all people..but...who made them so desperate?


Ok.. I'll tell you what... :) Lust for power and the opportunities appeared. Wars dramatically reveal villains which was exactly the case. Who do you think were their victims? Commies?.. :) Aha...

Bratwurst Boy:
KosMet?


Sweet... you don't even know the name of the region which independence you've approved for many times. Kosovo and Metohija.
Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11
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 Jun 21, 10, 23:00    #56
Sasha:
I see here lame attempts to sanitize Adik.


You are running dangerously low on arguments Sasha...I'm disappointed!
BorrkaThreads: 49
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 Jun 21, 10, 23:07    #57
Sasha, I'm not going to join this long discussion - I'm rather busy now - but just my 5 cents.
Russia - the Russian Empire was Russian pride and glory ruled (more or less) by Russians and not by Ukrainians, Poles or Chukchas.
So you Russians are responsible for all what happened 1917 and later in YOUR empire.
No way around it.
SashaThreads: 2
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Edited by: Sasha  Jun 21, 10, 23:10    #58
Bratwurst Boy:
You are running dangerously low on arguments Sasha...I'm disappointed!


Feel free to stay disappointed ad nauseam, yet this

Sasha:
bloody game started by Stalin


is your claim which has nothing to do with argumentation. And that

Sasha:
I see here lame attempts to sanitize Adik.


is not an argument but accurately the impression your claim made.

Borrka:
So you Russians are responsible for all what happened 1917 and later in YOUR empire.
No way around it.


I got what you mean... :) It's very familiar.
When it comes to doing any good the definition of "a Russian" turns kind of blurring and it could be a Pole, a Chuckcha, a Jew etc. Yet as only a bad thing mentioned then miraculously "a pure Russian" appears with his imperialistic turn of mind. :)) Corporative responsibility. That's the only solution...
NathanThreads: 33
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Edited by: Nathan  Jun 22, 10, 04:26    #59
Sasha:
I thought that sort of whining would only work on some American forum. :)

I am not whining and there seems nothing funny about 10 million starved to death people. I hold memory of them. I am not expecting for you to understand what it might have been like for those who died, but to criminalize those who in a desperate move, knowing that almost no one will survive, fought against the system which killed millions of their compatriots just 10 years ago, is lower than anyone can go, especially empire that starved and murdered them. What is the most despicable is to know that you completely understand this and somewhere inside you agree with me, but you will never say it or accept it.
Sasha:
When it comes to doing any good the definition of "a Russian" turns kind of blurring and it could be a Pole, a Chuckcha, a Jew etc. Yet as only a bad thing mentioned then miraculously "a pure Russian" appears with his imperialistic turn of mind. :)) Corporative responsibility. That's the only solution...

Trust me, no one wants any "good" of you (just get the hell out of the face with your good stuff and never show up again, please) But the very simple facts that the Soviet Union's Central Bank and capital were in Moscow, international agreements, state policy, history: didn't it all was around "Big Russian Brother" and inferior little brothers who "always dreamed of being with Him"? Language of the SU was Russian, all the embassies and consulates of the Soviet Union are now embassies of Russian Federation, not counting submarines, ships and similar stuff which were supported by all 15 countries - everything are in Russian Federation.
On December 20, 1991, the State Bank of the USSR was disbanded and all its assets, liabilities and property in the RSFSR were transferred to the Central Bank of the RSFSR (Bank of Russia), which several months later was renamed the Central Bank of the Russian Federation (Bank of Russia).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Bank_of_Russia
All the savings people had in any of these republics were basically stolen. And these money were not a month's salary, but life-long savings: it was kids education, retirement and hospital expenses, rainy days money - all gone. Now it is the Central Bank of Russian Federation. But that's again me whining as you say. If you took and controlled everything within that empire called Soviet Union doesn't it make it Your empire as Borrka said? Or that again will be poor Russians under attack of nationalists who want to undermine the saintest intentions of such good people.
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 Jun 23, 10, 09:16    #60
Nathan's posting refers to all East-European CCCP-vassals so I would be delighted to read any comment from you Sasha.


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