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Can anyone from Poland tell me about Auschwitz and The Ghetto?

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Edited by: Prince Feb 19, 09, 18:37 #151

Harry this communist from west Germany would behave in the same way:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Army_Faction

The Red Army Faction or RAF (German Rote Armee Fraktion) (in its early stages commonly known as Baader-Meinhof Group [or Gang]), was postwar West Germany's most violent and prominent militant left-wing terrorist group. It described itself as a communist "urban guerrilla" group engaged in armed resistance. The RAF was formally founded in 1970 by Andreas Baader, Gudrun Ensslin, Horst Mahler, Ulrike Meinhof, Irmgard Möller, and others.

but they were in miniority in western German ... if west Germany was given for Soviets they would act as commies in all countries.

Why Poland has been sold for Soviets ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_betrayal

Pinching PeteThreads: 1 Posts: 1,112 Joined: Feb 23, 08 ♂	Feb 19, 09, 18:37 #152
Prince: Prince .. boo hoo, who bankrupted the Soviets? It wasn't you that's for sure. You wouldn't even be in the EU without the West. Betrayal? What a clown. You marched on the Czechs, okay? You and the Bear. Skip the sanctimony.

HarryThreads: 59 Posts: 7,996 Joined: May 2, 07 ♂	Feb 19, 09, 18:42 #153
Prince: Harry this communist from west Germany would behave in the same way: A fascinating bit of conjecture there. Now, please name the men who ran the Polish concentration camps and who now "live in Israel and claim to be Israelis not Polish". Either that or admit that you have been telling anti-semitic lies.

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Edited by: Prince Feb 19, 09, 18:47 #154

Harry:

Now, please name the men who ran the Polish concentration camps and who now "live in Israel and claim to be Israelis not Polish".

I don't know anny Polish concentration camps but surly in camps established by NKVD one of commanders was Morel.

Pinching Pete:

.. boo hoo, who bankrupted the Soviets?

Americans.

Kukliński helped you a lot.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryszard_Kukliński

Ryszard Jerzy Kukliński (June 13, 1930 – February 11, 2004) was a Polish colonel and Cold War spy. Motivated by the desire to promote the Polish national interest, he passed top secret Warsaw Pact documents to the CIA between 1971 and 1981.

After the December 1970 massacre of Polish workers in Gdynia by communist forces, Kukliński contacted the CIA and offered his services as a spy. (According to another version, he was approached by the CIA in Vietnam as early as 1967.) Between 1971 and 1981 he passed 35,000 pages of mostly Soviet secret documents to the CIA. The documents described Moscow's strategic plans regarding the use of nuclear weapons, technical data about the T-72 tank and Strela-1 missiles, the distribution of Soviet anti-aircraft bases in Poland and East Germany, the methods used by the Soviets to avoid spy satellite detection of their military hardware, plans for the imposition of martial law in Poland, and many other matters.

A placard with a dedication to Ryszard Kukliński in Warsaw.

Kukliński is buried in the honour row of the Powązki military cemetery in Warsaw, and has been given honorary citizenship of several Polish cities, among which most notable are Kraków and Gdańsk.

Pinching Pete:

You marched on the Czechs, okay? You and the Bear.

As long as we weren't free ... and people wanted Czechs to win ... we haven't marched on them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryszard_Siwiec

Ryszard Siwiec (1909—September 12, 1968) was a Polish accountant, teacher and former Home Army soldier who was the first person to commit suicide by self-immolation in protest against the Soviet-led invasion of Czechoslovakia. He set himself ablaze in Warsaw during a national harvest festival on September 8, 1968 at the Dziesięciolecia Stadium

HarryThreads: 59 Posts: 7,996 Joined: May 2, 07 ♂	Feb 19, 09, 18:57 #155
Prince: I don't know anny Polish concentration camps but surly in camps established by NKVD one of commanders was Morel. So you mean you can not name the men you claimed to exist. OK, nice of you to admit that you were lying.

PrinceThreads: 26 Posts: 826 Joined: Nov 4, 08 ♂	Edited by: Prince Feb 19, 09, 19:05 #156
Harry you try to make Poland responsible for crimes commited here ... when majority of Poles prefered to be nuked than see Soviet victory... Morel existed and it is another issue.

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Feb 19, 09, 20:06 #157

Harry:

Would you like us to talk about the post-WWII Polish concentration camps?

What’s the confusion, Harry? You didn’t have a paragraph in your handbook “How to provoke Poles most successfully” about different types of camps? What a horrible oversight! You know, even not every German camp during WW2 was a concentration camp. Did those alleged ‘polish’ camps after the war had gas chambers?

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Feb 19, 09, 20:25 #158

Bzibzioh:

You know, even not every German camp during WW2 was a concentration camp.

Nice to see you posting facts rather than personal material (or at least trying to). You're right about the Nazis. As well as the Konzentrationslager they also had transit camps, labour camps, POW camps, camps for rehabilitation and re-education of Poles, hostage camps and extermination camps. However, with the exception of some of the extermination camps (which had an the sole purpose of killing, i.e. the Aktion Reinhard camps), all of those non-Konzentrationslager fit the generally accepted definition of concentration camp.

Bzibzioh:

Did those alleged ‘polish’ camps after the war had gas chambers?

No they did not. But as mentioned above, gas chambers are more the kind of thing that would be found in the extermination camps in Poland. The Nazi extermination camps in Poland which, I must stress, were never Polish.

You can argue about semantics if you want to but to most people a concentration camp which is run by Poles, guarded by Poles, managed by Poles and exists at the order of a Polish government which is made up of Poles is simply a Polish concentration camp.

1jolaThreads: 33 Posts: 2,739 Joined: Sep 23, 08 ♂	Feb 19, 09, 20:25 #159
Bzibzioh: What’s the confusion, Harry? You didn’t have a paragraph in your handbook “How to provoke Poles most successfully” about different types of camps? He doesn't have the latest ADL handbook.

PrinceThreads: 26 Posts: 826 Joined: Nov 4, 08 ♂	Edited by: Prince Feb 19, 09, 20:26 #160
Harry: You can argue about semantics if you want to but to most people a concentration camp which is run by Poles, guarded by Poles, managed by Poles and exists at the order of a Polish government which is made up of Poles is simply a Polish concentration camp. Soviet/Russian National Anthem - Techno Version!

BzibziohThreads: 6 Posts: 3,648 Joined: Oct 15, 08 ♀	Feb 19, 09, 20:32 #161
Harry: You can argue about semantics if you want to but to most people a concentration camp which is run by Poles, guarded by Poles, managed by Poles and exists at the order of a Polish government which is made up of Poles is simply a Polish concentration camp. No more than Guantanamo Bay could be called a Cuban Camp.

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Feb 19, 09, 20:43 #162

sjam:

1jola: You operate with no sources whatsoever, pumpkin.

Had to wait until I got home as this is not one of your copy and paste sources.

As if writing out a few lines from a book carries more weight. You silly man. I'm still waiting for your source of the lie you posted that Polish police were volunteers.

Answer this. Which police force did more damage to the ghetto population? Granatowa or the Jewish ghetto police?

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Feb 19, 09, 20:47 #163

Harry, are you up to your old tricks again and trying so desperately prove how Poles did this or that?

The simple truth is that Stalin did not trust Poles; in those days 90% of the penal facilities were run by and staffed by Jews who have changed their names to a more Polish sounding ones. So whom can Stalin entrust a Security in Poland a Jew by the name of Jacob Berman. Stalin regarded Jews as trustworthy, whose loyalties would be to Zionism rather than the country of their residence and he was right, seems like he was not disappointed in his choice.

Keeping to the subject at hand, in Silesian region alone there were some 2 to 3 hundred such officers and 75% of them were Jews, of course the percentage is much higher when it comes to who is of an executive level and position of influence. Silesia alone had 20 to 30 prisons housing polish nationals and anyone who was deemed a threat to a Commie Government. You have to keep in mind that it was Pinek Maka (a Jew), who was the Secretary of Security for Silesia and guess who he appointed to be in charge of the penal system? Hold on to your hat, here’s a real shocker now; it’s another Jew Chaim Studniberg.

Here is just a sample of Jewish officers in Silesian region who were commanders of such facilities and did not even bother to disguised to be perceived as Poles, they are as follow; Maj. Frydman (in Bytom), Jacobowitz (can’t remember), Szmul Kleinhauft (in Mysłowice), Efraim Lewin (in Nysa), Szlomo Morel (in Świętochłowice, Opole, Katowice) and Lola Potok Ackerfeid (in Gliwice).

As for Czesław Gęborski, being either Polish or Jewish although he himself never made a claim to be Jewish some of the witnesses have claimed that they overheard him bragging to other Jewish guards there and making this statement “I boast of me being Catholic and they believed me”. The shadow of a doubt is upon him but it was never proven. What he did is a stuff of aw inspiring and envy to many aspiring SS and Gestapo officers because of his ingenuity he employed in keeping his prisoners entertained to the bitter end. No matter how you perceive him to be a Pole or a Jew; the simple truth is his deeds were committed under a watchful eye of his regional commander who was a Jew and there is no way you can deny this.

PS. Read what American Jew named Sack has to say about this very subject. It will blow your mind and maybe make you realize how wrong you are. Keep in mind I recommend a Jewish author because you would not even consider reading a non Jewish one.

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Edited by: Harry Feb 19, 09, 20:48 #164

Piorun:

how Poles did this or that?

Until Poland faces up to what it did as a nation, it willl be doomed to repeat the same mistakes. As has already been proven by Poland being selected to host and agreeing to host the USA's black prison in Europe.

Bzibzioh:

You can argue about semantics if you want to but to most people a concentration camp which is run by Poles, guarded by Poles, managed by Poles and exists at the order of a Polish government which is made up of Poles is simply a Polish concentration camp.

No more than Guantanamo Bay could be called a Cuban Camp.

Is Guantanamo Bay run by Cubans?
Is Guantanamo Bay guarded by Cubans?
Does Guantanamo Bay exist by order of the Cuban government?
Come to think of it, is Guantanamo Bay even on Cuban territory?

Face facts: a concentration camp in Poland which is run by Poles, guarded by Poles, managed by Poles and exists at the order of a Polish government which is made up of Poles is simply a Polish concentration camp. Trying to argue that it isn't just makes you look foolish.

PrinceThreads: 26 Posts: 826 Joined: Nov 4, 08 ♂	Edited by: Prince Feb 19, 09, 20:57 #165
Harry so why Poles fight the war against Soviets in 1920 ? If your version was true ... Poles should welcome Soviets with flowers in 1920 ... Why Poles have been invaded by Soviets in 1939? Why there was need to false election results after WWII

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Feb 19, 09, 21:03 #166

Prince:

Harry so why Poles fight the war against Soviets in 1920 ?

Why Poles have been invaded by Soviets in 1939?

Why there was need to false election results after WWII

I would very much imagine that in your mind the answer to all three of those questions is "Because of the Jews!".

Now, please name the men who ran the Polish concentration camps and who now "live in Israel and claim to be Israelis not Polish". Either that or admit that you have been telling anti-semitic lies.

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Feb 19, 09, 21:03 #167

Harry:

Face facts: a concentration camp in Poland which is run by Poles, guarded by Poles, managed by Poles and exists at the order of a Polish government which is made up of Poles is simply a Polish concentration camp. Trying to argue that it isn't just makes you look foolish.

Harry, for the last time cos arguing about semantics is just boring: those after WW2 camps in Poland were labour camps run by Soviets, as a polish gov was not independent. Using some Poles - Christian or Jewish - as guards changes absolutely nothing.

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Feb 19, 09, 21:06 #168

Harry:

Just read my statement above and consider changing all reference to Poles and Polish, to Jew and Jewish and you will be a hundred percent correct otherwise you are just a Lire.

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Edited by: Harry Feb 19, 09, 21:10 #169

Bzibzioh:

Using some Poles - Christian or Jewish - as guards changes absolutely nothing.

That might be a nice argument, were it not for the fact that from the late 1940s onwards the staff at Poland's concentration camps were almost exclusively Polish and they ran the camps in the way specified by a government made up exclusively of Poles.

BTW: the 'they made us do it' defense is the same one used by the Nazi guards at Auschwitz. How odd to find a Pole using the same excuse to justify the actions of Poles at concentration camps that Nazis used to justify their actions at Nazi concentration camps.

Piorun:

Just read my statement above and consider changing all reference to Poles and Polish, to Jew and Jewish and you will be a hundred percent correct otherwise you are just a Lire.

Oh goody! Somebody else wants to claim that all the people who ran Poland's concentration camps were all Jews! Please do what your fellow anti-semite Prince has failed to do and post all the names of those people.

PiorunThreads: - Posts: 741 Joined: Nov 11, 07 ♂	Feb 19, 09, 21:14 #170
Harry: Prince has failed to do and post all the names of those people. I did not all but some.

HarryThreads: 59 Posts: 7,996 Joined: May 2, 07 ♂	Feb 19, 09, 21:15 #171
Piorun: I did not all but some. And the names which I provided? Those ones which belong to people who were not Jews. What about them?

PiorunThreads: - Posts: 741 Joined: Nov 11, 07 ♂	Feb 19, 09, 21:16 #172
Harry: And the names which I provided? Those ones which belong to people who were not Jews. What about them? Did you read my post?

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Edited by: Prince Feb 19, 09, 21:21 #173

Harry I haven't claimed that all ...

Marek Edelman is great personality I really like him. If he wanted to be member of our parlament once again ... he has my vote.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marek_Edelman

After the Second World War, Edelman studied at the Medical University in Łódź. In 1976 he became an activist with the Komitet Obrony Robotników (Workers' Defense Committee) and later of the Solidarity movement. During the period of martial law in 1981, he was interned. He took part in the Round Table Talks and served as a member of the Sejm (Polish parliament) from 1989 until 1993.

It doesn't change the fact that not all people were assimialted in short time when Poland was independent 1918 - 1939. It doesn't change the fact that smashing majority of Polish society was anti communist and Poland was Soviet occupied.

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Feb 19, 09, 21:22 #174

Harry:

the 'they made us do it' defense is the same one used by the Nazi guards at Auschwitz. How odd to find a Pole using the same excuse to justify the actions of Poles at concentration camps that Nazis used to justify their actions at Nazi concentration camps.

Nobody made us do anything. WE just didn't do it.

Harry:

Until Poland faces up to what it did as a nation, it will be doomed to repeat the same mistakes.

And this crusade you are doing about educating us about our own history and this "facing up to" isn’t working. When you will realize that?

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Feb 19, 09, 21:24 #175

Piorun:

Did you read my post?

Yes. You stated that "The shadow of a doubt is upon him [Gęborski] but it was never proven". So in the space of a single page you went from saying that there is doubt about his ethnicity to being certain that he was a Jew because all the people who ran Polish concentration camps were Jews. Nice consistant argument you have there.

I don't see where you have made any mention of Aleksy Krut, Stefan Szablewski, Włodzimierz Staniszewski, Stanisław Kwiatkowski, Ivan Mordasov or Teofil Hazelmajer, to name but a few of the commanders of the Polish concentration camps.

miranda	Feb 19, 09, 21:27 #176
are you Jewish Harry?

HarryThreads: 59 Posts: 7,996 Joined: May 2, 07 ♂	Edited by: Harry Feb 19, 09, 21:28 #177
miranda: are you Jewish Harry? Why does the answer to that question matter at all?

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Feb 19, 09, 21:34 #178

Harry:

I don't see where you have made any mention of Aleksy Krut, Stefan Szablewski, Włodzimierz Staniszewski, Stanisław Kwiatkowski, Ivan Mordasov or Teofil Hazelmajer, to name but a few of the commanders of the Polish concentration camps.

Unlike you I don’t make it my life’s mission to blame all the ailments of this world on Jews like you do on Poles. I don’t’ know the rest of these names, but with little bit of research on my part I’ll bet I can prove you wrong. You see It’s not the facts that are driving you but some kind of chip on your shoulder. Was your father thrown out of Poland or something?

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Feb 19, 09, 21:37 #179

[quote=]
Harry: Until Poland faces up to what it did as a nation,[/quote]

Maybe it is your people that should face up?

Stalin's Jews

We mustn't forget that some of greatest murderers of modern times were Jewish

And us, the Jews? An Israeli student finishes high school without ever hearing the name "Genrikh Yagoda," the greatest Jewish murderer of the 20th Century, the GPU's deputy commander and the founder and commander of the NKVD. Yagoda diligently implemented Stalin's collectivization orders and is responsible for the deaths of at least 10 million people. His Jewish deputies established and managed the Gulag system. After Stalin no longer viewed him favorably, Yagoda was demoted and executed, and was replaced as chief hangman in 1936 by Yezhov, the "bloodthirsty dwarf."

Yezhov was not Jewish but was blessed with an active Jewish wife. In his Book "Stalin: Court of the Red Star", Jewish historian Sebag Montefiore writes that during the darkest period of terror, when the Communist killing machine worked in full force, Stalin was surrounded by beautiful, young Jewish women.

Stalin's close associates and loyalists included member of the Central Committee and Politburo Lazar Kaganovich. Montefiore characterizes him as the "first Stalinist" and adds that those starving to death in Ukraine, an unparalleled tragedy in the history of human kind aside from the Nazi horrors and Mao's terror in China, did not move Kaganovich.

Many Jews sold their soul to the devil of the Communist revolution and have blood on their hands for eternity. We'll mention just one more: Leonid Reichman, head of the NKVD's special department and the organization's chief interrogator, who was a particularly cruel sadist.

In 1934, according to published statistics, 38.5 percent of those holding the most senior posts in the Soviet security apparatuses were of Jewish origin.

The Jews active in official communist terror apparatuses (In the Soviet Union and abroad) and who at times led them, did not do this, obviously, as Jews, but rather, as Stalinists, communists, and "Soviet people." Therefore, we find it easy to ignore their origin and "play dumb": What do we have to do with them? But let's not forget them. My own view is different. I find it unacceptable that a person will be considered a member of the Jewish people when he does great things, but not considered part of our people when he does amazingly despicable things.

Even if we deny it, we cannot escape the Jewishness of "our hangmen," who served the Red Terror with loyalty and dedication from its establishment. After all, others will always remind us of their origin.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3342999,00.html

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Feb 19, 09, 21:45 #180

Piorun:

Unlike you I don’t make it my life’s mission to blame all the ailments of this world on Jews like you do on Poles.

You certainly seem ti blame all the negative actions which were taken by the post-WWII Polish government on Jews.

Piorun:

I don’t’ know the rest of these names, but with little bit of research on my part I’ll bet I can prove you wrong. You see It’s not the facts that are driving you but some kind of chip on your shoulder.

I'll be right here waiting for that research. Just as I'll be waiting for you to explain how you went from saying that there is doubt about Gęborski's ethnicity to being certain that he was a Jew because all the people who ran Polish concentration camps were Jews.

Piorun:

Was your father thrown out of Poland or something?

Never even set foot in the country.

1jola:

Maybe it is your people that should face up?

A masterful point. Or at least it would be if I was Jewish. By the way, although the actions of individual Jews is (or at least should be) a source of a certain amount of shame for Jews as a whole, the actions of the Jewish state should be the source of much much more.