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Can anyone from Poland tell me about Auschwitz and The Ghetto?

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Mar 4, 09, 18:52 #241

Harry:

1jola:
In fact I did post my origins. I posted that I am a Pole and a Roman Catholic.
Sorry but you can not be either of those things. Your yourself said that only Jews were able to escape communism and get a free ride to the west. You and your parents escaped to the west, therefore you must be Jewish and not Roman Catholic. And you yourself said that a Jew can not be a Pole, so you can not be a Pole.

You need medical help.

Harry:

I think I said that I wouldn't describe myself as being of any nationality. I claim different nationalities when they suit me (e.g. using a European citizenship when in the EU). And truthfully, wouldn't the world be a better place if everybody was a lot less nationalistic and a lot more humanistic?

You would make a great citizen of the Soviet Union.

sjamThreads: 5 Posts: 1,016 Joined: Jan 13, 09 ♂	Mar 5, 09, 10:49 #242
1jola: You would make a great citizen of the Soviet Union. From someone that proved such a lousy citzen of their own country—by abandonning it for the 'free' west thus leaving Poland to its fate—now that is pretty funny :-)))

1jolaThreads: 33 Posts: 2,739 Joined: Sep 23, 08 ♂	Mar 5, 09, 11:23 #243
sjam: by abandonning it for the 'free' west thus leaving Poland to its fate Did your parents give you the choice of residence when you were a child, genius? Now, based on what Harry the Cosmopolitan said don't you think he would make a great communist? Here is my anthem: ...and here is Harry's:

sjamThreads: 5 Posts: 1,016 Joined: Jan 13, 09 ♂	Edited by: sjam Mar 5, 09, 11:31 #244
1jola: Did your parents give you the choice of residence when you were a child, genius? Well actually yes! At aged seven I was given the choice to go to an English boarding school or travel the world with them. I chose to travel and it proved the best choice as I spent these most enjoyable years in East Africa, North Africa and the Middle East.

1jolaThreads: 33 Posts: 2,739 Joined: Sep 23, 08 ♂	Mar 5, 09, 11:54 #245
I can see the conversation. "Son, we're going on a hippy tour around the world. You don't need us, and you should get a good education, so why don't you stay behind in England while we do the wild thing. Well, unless you want to come with us, it's up to you, whadda ya say, biggen?" So, your parents nearly abandoned you at the ago of seven.

sjamThreads: 5 Posts: 1,016 Joined: Jan 13, 09 ♂	Edited by: sjam Mar 5, 09, 12:08 #246
1jola: Son, we're going on a hippy tour around the world. Actually, my late father, a Pole, was busy killing communist insurgents in numerous covert British military operations during these world tours—and he was very good at this job ;-))) And he certainly had some pretty wild experiences.

1jolaThreads: 33 Posts: 2,739 Joined: Sep 23, 08 ♂	Mar 5, 09, 12:30 #247
If I were mean, I would make repeated posts how your parents tried to abandon you at the age of seven. I won't and you should refrain from joining ranks with Harry at smearing everything Polish and twisting facts.

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Edited by: sjam Mar 5, 09, 12:42 #248

1jola:

I would make repeated posts how your parents tried to abandon you at the age of seven.

Feel free as I don't have any issues regarding possible abandonment by my parents. They could easily have placed me in boarding school without asking my opinion, and this would have been the easier option, because my father who was deported to Germany as a young teenager missed out on his education so he was concerned that travelling around with frequent disruptions to his children's education would have put us at a disadvantage in later life, as it had been for him. But as it turned out he need not have worried as I was given the very best education at numerous Embassy schools and had also a great time enjoying the world.

1jola:

smearing everything Polish

BTW. I don't consider pointing out instances of Polish antisemitism or collaboration with the Nazis as smearing Poland; these are facts not smears. Just as some Polish Jews collaborated with the Nazis is also fact. I recognise both as part of Polish history whereas you do not.

HarryThreads: 59 Posts: 7,996 Joined: May 2, 07 ♂	Mar 5, 09, 13:33 #249
1jola: Harry at smearing everything Polish and twisting facts. Strangely enough, just this morning I was photographing and writing about the plaque on the wall of St. Augustine Church on ul Nowolipki. No doubt you know the one I mean: the one commemorating the Christian Poles who died helping their Jewish countrymen.

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Mar 5, 09, 13:33 #250

sjam:

BTW. I don't consider pointing out instances of Polish antisemitism or collaboration with the Nazis as smearing Poland; these are facts not smears.

Fair enough. Facts are not smears, but they are being used as smears, primaly by Jews outside Poland. This is evident to most Poles. In Poland this method has no chance but in the US, Israel where people have the Schindler view of Polish history, it is repeatedly used as smears.

sjam:

Just as some Polish Jews collaborated with the Nazis is also fact.

It might be a fact to you, but when you start to give those facts you are immediately called an anti-Semite. It is also a very unknown "fact." Most people don't know the extent and severity of Jewish collaboration yet they "know" the Poles were collaborators and anti-Semites. Of course, you are free to spread half truths or outright lies about Poles with impunity, nay, even encouragment. Let's test this. I have made no effort to search, but you can find an English language article in the mainstream press discussing Jewish collaboration. Let's make it recent, say 2008. Post a link and we'll see what they say.

sjam:

I recognise both as part of Polish history whereas you do not.

You are wrong. I recognize both too and I have enough knowledge to draw conclusions. I'm interested what the public is offered. Let's not make a pissing contest out of it, please. Let's look at the facts first.

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Edited by: sjam Mar 5, 09, 14:34 #251

1jola:

but in the US, Israel where people have the Schindler view of Polish history,

They also have Polanski's Oscar winning 'The Pianist' which shows equally the Jewish Police actions in the Ghetto (but also one that helped Szpilman escape the Umschlagplatz) and the Poles help to Szpilman contrasted by the Pole who stole money from others that were trying to help Szpilman, it also portrayed German oficer who could have shot Szpilman but did not and chose to help him. It also shows the Polish blackmailers.

So you might think US and Israel has just a 'Schindler view' but this is just your generalistion and opinion but doesn't mean it is applicable in reality.

1jola:

It might be a fact to you, but when you start to give those facts you are immediately called an anti-Semite.

1jola:

Facts are not smears, but they are being used as smears,

Sorry, but if that is your position then in fairness one could equally state that you have been using the facts of Jewish Police, or the 13's et alii to smear the Polish Jews.

1jola:

sjam:
BTW. I don't consider pointing out instances of Polish antisemitism or collaboration with the Nazis as smearing Poland; these are facts not smears.

Fair enough. Facts are not smears, but they are being used as smears, primaly by Jews outside Poland.

You say it is fair now despite having previoulsy called me anti-Polish for stating what you now say is fair enough? So I will accept your agreement that I was being fair all along ;-))

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Mar 5, 09, 16:24 #252

1jola:

It might be a fact to you, but when you start to give those facts you are immediately called an anti-Semite.

Have you been called an anti-semite for posting about those facts? No, you haven't.

1jola:

It is also a very unknown "fact." Most people don't know the extent and severity of Jewish collaboration yet they "know" the Poles were collaborators and anti-Semites.

We've very recently discussed what British schools teach about Jewish collaboration. Unfortunately, you, as a Polish-American Jew, appear to know more about what British schools teach than people who actually went to British schools.

1jola:

Let's test this. I have made no effort to search, but you can find an English language article in the mainstream press discussing Jewish collaboration. Let's make it recent, say 2008. Post a link and we'll see what they say.

This article isn't particularly recent but frankly I can't be bothered to go past the first ten results of a google search for ' "Jewish collaboration" nazis': http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9B0DE3DB1331F935A15756C 0A961948260&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all

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Edited by: pawian Jan 26, 10, 15:09 #253

http://www.thenews.pl/national/?id=124409

Auschwitz children’s stories collection published
26.01.2010 13:06
The Auschwitz Museum has published a reprint of a collection of stories for children, compiled by prisoners at the death camp in World War 2.
The stories - Bajki z Auschwitz - were printed illegally by Polish prisoners working in the offices of Nazi architects preparing plans for extension of the camp. According to former camp inmates, about 50 copies of the little book were created, using stolen paper and paints, and printed clandestinely.
The finished books were smuggled out of the camp. Most of the stories were written or translated by Stanisław Bęć.
The book contains six stories altogether: "The adventures of the little black chick" which is probably the first ever children’s story written in Auschwitz; “The story of the Hare, the Fox and the Cockerel” translated from the Czech; “Every Living Thing” describes insects, birds and animals found in fields, gardens and homes – also based on a Czech original; “The Wasps’ Wedding” which is the only story that has survived without its illustrations; “The Selfish Giant” a rhymed version of the story by Oscar Wilde and “The Tales of the Learned Cat” a copy of which the Museum received in 1999.
This is the first book for children by the Auschwitz Museum Press, which since its creation in 1957 has published more than 400 titles of a total 8 million copies, including historical books, memoirs, albums, catalogues and guides in 20 language versions.
Proceeds from the sale of the book of stories for children are particularly to go towards preserving items documenting the fate of children at the death camp, and the so-called childrens’ barracks at Birkenau.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,160 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Jan 26, 10, 15:24 #254
And where is the proof that they were smuggled out?

pawianThreads: 80 Posts: 4,542 Joined: May 30, 08 ♂	Jan 26, 10, 15:34 #255
Seanus: And where is the proof that they were smuggled out? Do you expect SS stamps on the raw materials?

caprice49Threads: 4 Posts: 288 Joined: Aug 5, 09 ♀	Edited by: caprice49 Jan 26, 10, 15:47 #256
Seanus: proof that they were smuggled out? Thomas!! Next you will be asking you was Stanislaw Bec

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Edited by: Seanus Jan 26, 10, 15:50 #257

It depends how much they wanted to cover their bases ;) ;) Security was said to be very tight so I was just wondering if sb can inextricably tie those books to an Auschwitz smuggle.

Auschwitz is not 9/11 where there is ample footage upon which to base conclusions. Remember, hearsay is admissible to different levels in common law jurisdictions.

Thomas?? I've lost count of how many times I've found articles to be inaccurate.

pawianThreads: 80 Posts: 4,542 Joined: May 30, 08 ♂	Edited by: pawian Jan 26, 10, 15:57 #258
Seanus: Security was said to be very tight so I was just wondering if sb can inextricably tie those books to an Auschwitz smuggle. Definitely you need to read more stories and diaries about Auschwitz. There was resistance movement in the camp. Not only materials but also people were smuggled in and out. E.g, your compatriot, Denis Avey. You know how to use Google? :):):):)

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,160 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Jan 26, 10, 16:05 #259
What was the word you used?? Oh, yes, it was "stories". You wanna hear my story about the time I saw a pig fly by my window? No, didn't think so ;) ;) Can you show me the photos of those smuggling things in and out? Isn't it funny that diary accounts often don't check out? Let's smuggle people in to be shot, LOL ;) ;)

pawianThreads: 80 Posts: 4,542 Joined: May 30, 08 ♂	Jan 26, 10, 17:10 #260
Ooops. You have been absent really long. After your comeback, I can`t recognise you. Is it some new strategy of yours or you have been replaced by Body Snatchers?

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Jan 27, 10, 10:10 #261

Seanus:

Can you show me the photos of those smuggling things in and out?

Are really that naive? My mother - a Catholic with no particular reason to highlight the plight of the Jews was one of the lucky ones who lived to tell the tale of the horrors of Auschwitz.

There were however many nationalities (including Germans) of many religions in camp who suffered a similar fate as the Jews and if they are to be reproached it should be for making the holocaust exclusive to them.

jonniThreads: 26 Posts: 4,189 Joined: Nov 27, 07 ♂	Edited by: jonni Jan 27, 10, 10:16 #262
Seanus: Let's smuggle people in to be shot, LOL ;) ;) There was a British soldier, still alive but over 90, who managed to smuggle him hiself in several times by bribing guards - he was able to bring in supplies which saved people's lives. This is his story

caprice49Threads: 4 Posts: 288 Joined: Aug 5, 09 ♀	Jan 27, 10, 10:34 #263
jonni: There was a British soldier, still alive but over 90, who managed to smuggle him hiself in several times by bribing guards There were also people who escaped to convey the horrors to the Western Allies who for a long time did not believe what was going on.

jonniThreads: 26 Posts: 4,189 Joined: Nov 27, 07 ♂	Jan 27, 10, 10:40 #264
caprice49: who for a long time did not believe what was going on. Not at all difficult to understand given the horrors of the place.

caprice49Threads: 4 Posts: 288 Joined: Aug 5, 09 ♀	Jan 29, 10, 15:30 #265
It did beggar belief. And clearly still does with some. Little is mentioned about the offspring of the survivors. They too relived the horrors in graphic detail throughout their childhood.

plk123Threads: 30 Posts: 6,410 Joined: Aug 29, 07 ♂	Edited by: plk123 Mar 21, 10, 05:07 #266
Auschwitz slideshow