'Battle of Britain' won thanks to Polish aces !!

HarryThreads: 59 Posts: 7,996 Joined: May 2, 07 ♂	Feb 2, 10, 13:47 #31
z_darius: Now, one might want to stop and pause here and think how the arrogance of the British stopped Poles from participating sooner in the Battle of Britain. Yes and one might also want to pause and think about the arrogance of holding 603 squadron out of the combat until a mere two days before pilots who couldn't even speak to fighter command.

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Edited by: Wroclaw Boy Feb 2, 10, 20:38 #32

z_darius:

Now, one might want to stop and pause here and think how the arrogance of the British stopped Poles from participating sooner in the Battle of Britain.

Thats a bit much, i appreciate 303 squadron and what they did for the cause, you should be thankfull that the Royal Air Force provided the resources and technology for allowing the Poles to hit the Gerries where it hurt.

z_darius:

These are not the numbers claimed by the squadron members but confirmed by a British historian, and they are about 1/3 of the claimed ones. So no, there is no, I did not fall for any exaggerated claims.

Good I'm happy its confirmed aswell as it can be, but i still think you need to take into account:

Wroclaw Boy:

they took more chances
had a serious score to settle
most had lost their loved ones

They were essentially crazy and good to have on our side.

On a personal level judging by Polish drivers they are pretty nuts on the road too but for the most part skilled drivers.

The last WWII dog fight book i read was about Douglas Bader (cant remember the name) theres a section about a Polish ace taking real risks in the air and pulling them off, i'll try and find the section and copy it in.

HarryThreads: 59 Posts: 7,996 Joined: May 2, 07 ♂	Feb 2, 10, 20:55 #33
Wroclaw Boy: Thats a bit much, i appreciate 303 squadron and what they did for the cause, you should be thankfull that the Royal Air Force provided the resources and technology for allowing the Poles to hit the Gerries where it hurt. Fat chance of that! Derek has slunk off back under the rock he came from now he's been exposed as nothing more than a liar!

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Feb 2, 10, 22:13 #34

Wroclaw Boy:

you should be thankfull that the Royal Air Force provided the resources and technology for allowing the Poles to hit the Gerries where it hurt

Oh, we're thankful for the planes and stuff, you know. I'm also quite sure that the Polish
pilots who fought in the Battle of Britain were more than grateful for giving them an
opportunity to avenge their country. In return, they fought with dedication and bravery,
which nobody can deny. We were allies after all.

RAF pilots also aided the Warsaw Uprising and some of them died helping our freedom
fighters. We will keep them in our memory - nothing's forgotten. We were allies after all.

To say, as the thread title suggests, that the Battle of Britain 'was won thanks to Poles',
is an exaggeration, but our pilots did what they could. Whether they did or didn't get
enough recognition for their deeds is a secondary issue. We were allies after all.

Why all the bitterness? Why all the arguing?

TrevekThreads: 30 Posts: 2,088 Joined: May 21, 08 ♂	Feb 2, 10, 22:47 #35
skysoulmate: Have there been any films made about the 303rd squadron? Don't know, but interestingly, the original Kościuszko sqn was founded by an American, who later made the film King Kong.

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Edited by: skysoulmate Feb 2, 10, 23:17 #36

Trevek:

Don't know, but interestingly, the original Kościuszko sqn was founded by an American, who later made the film King Kong.

Interesting - America didn't have an Air Force during WWI and many Americans volunteered to fight for the French, the British (usually via Canadian military) and in this case for the Polish.

This explains it...

Merian C. Cooper in Polish Air Force uniform.

World War I
Cooper was a DH-4 bomber pilot during World War I. He was shot down and captured by the Germans, serving out the remainder of the war in a POW camp.[1]. According to Stephen Skinner (The Stand), Captain Cooper was allowed to remain in the U.S. Air Service after the war, despite serious burns to his arms incurred in the crash of his DH-4. In January 1919, while on special duty with the American Red Cross in France, he located the gravesite of Lieutenant Frank Luke, Jr., America's second-highest-scoring ace of World War I. Cooper's subsequent report helped to confirm the identity and location of Lt. Luke's first burial site, which was near the village of Murvaux.
[edit]Poland

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merian_C._Cooper

HarryThreads: 59 Posts: 7,996 Joined: May 2, 07 ♂	Feb 3, 10, 00:42 #37
^ Poland had an airforce in WWI?!? You really should try reading more carefully before trying to tell us what sources say.

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Edited by: skysoulmate Feb 3, 10, 01:01 #38

Harry:

^ Poland had an airforce in WWI?!? You really should try reading more carefully before trying to tell us what sources say.

You need to free your mind and stop hating - it'd do you good.

Your anti-Polish propaganda has nothing to do with history - it's pure nonsensical hate.

I'm sorry someone hurt your feeling badly enough for you to become a hatemonger. Don't blame Poland for what ails you - blame your parents.

HarryThreads: 59 Posts: 7,996 Joined: May 2, 07 ♂	Feb 3, 10, 01:09 #39
History? I'm surprised that you know enough about it to even be able to spell the word! But just for a laugh why don't you tell us all about Poland's mighty WWI airforce? I'd be particularly amused to hear about the American pilots who joined the Polish airforce because their own nation didn't have any air forces.

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Edited by: Moderator Feb 3, 10, 01:16 #40

Harry:

History? I'm surprised that you know enough about it to even be able to spell the word!

But just for a laugh why don't you tell us all about Poland's mighty WWI airforce? I'd be particularly amused to hear about the American pilots who joined the Polish airforce because their own nation didn't have any air forces.

You totally missed my point. The only reason you're here on PF is to make it clear to everyone that according to you Poles are nothing else than a bunch of anti-Semitic thugs who'd never done anything of value...

YOUR history is simple hate. Not history at all.

it would be nice if you kept to the topic.

skysoulmateThreads: 41 Posts: 3,039 Joined: Jan 10, 10 ♂	Edited by: Moderator Feb 3, 10, 01:32 #41
Moderator: it would be nice if you kept to the topic. Point taken

z_dariusThreads: 22 Posts: 5,091 Joined: Oct 18, 07 ♂	Feb 3, 10, 01:59 #42
Harry: Yes and one might also want to pause and think about the arrogance of holding 603 squadron out of the combat until a mere two days before pilots who couldn't even speak to fighter command. 13 Group covered the north of England, Scotland and Northern Ireland and was commanded by Air Vice-Marshal Richard Saul. 603 was a part of 13 Group and indeed, it was later moved south.

TymoteuszThreads: 7 Posts: 694 Joined: Jul 25, 09 ♂	Feb 3, 10, 01:59 #43
I know of an English chap named Neville who is collecting information on the 304 squadron. Polish pilots who flew bombing campaigns. I will leave a link here to his stuff if its OK with admin. If you know anything about the 304 you should contact him :) http://jagahost.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=history&action=display&t hread=5479

TITThreads: 9 Posts: 353 Joined: Jan 7, 10 ♂	Feb 3, 10, 02:32 #44
Trevek Don't know, but interestingly, the original Kościuszko sqn was founded by an American, who later made the film King Kong. to be precise - Polish Americans, sons of ex -emigrants to US

skysoulmateThreads: 41 Posts: 3,039 Joined: Jan 10, 10 ♂	Edited by: skysoulmate Feb 3, 10, 03:30 #45
TIT: to be precise - Polish Americans, sons of ex -emigrants to US Yeah, very true... Tymoteusz - very cool link, thanks.

szkotja2007Threads: 38 Posts: 2,543 Joined: Dec 29, 06 ♂	Edited by: szkotja2007 Feb 3, 10, 12:00 #46
Tymoteusz: 304 squadron Some info on 304 in Scotland and a rare colour photo of a Halifax Mk X operated by 304 ( cant get the photo to upload - heres a link )

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Feb 3, 10, 14:38 #47

skysoulmate:

Interesting - America didn't have an Air Force during WWI and many Americans volunteered to fight for the French, the British (usually via Canadian military) and in this case for the Polish.

I thought it was more because US weren't inmvolved in WW1 for the first 3 years or so, so many pilots couldn't fight as part of the US forces. Cooper actually joined the Polish airforce after WW1 to help fight the Bolsheviks.

TIT:

to be precise - Polish Americans, sons of ex -emigrants to US

Cooper was of British descent, not Polish. he felt he should help Poland because his grandfather told him tales of Kościuszko fighting for American freedom in the War of Independence. He felt Americans should help Polish independence. It was one of the reasons the squadron was named after Kościuszko.

szkotja2007Threads: 38 Posts: 2,543 Joined: Dec 29, 06 ♂	Feb 3, 10, 15:20 #48
The first person ever to shoot down a Messerschmidt Bf 109 was an American in 1937.

TrevekThreads: 30 Posts: 2,088 Joined: May 21, 08 ♂	Feb 3, 10, 16:28 #49
szkotja2007: The first person ever to shoot down a Messerschmidt Bf 109 was an American in 1937. Typical yank! Couldn't wait until the war started and then didn't rush to get involved! (seriously, was that Spanish civil War/)

vtec2710Threads: - Posts: 16 Joined: Feb 3, 10 ♂	Feb 3, 10, 17:08 #50
Stop this pointless discussion Brits won the battle of britain. Poles were only cleanning the planes, weren't they Harry?

HarryThreads: 59 Posts: 7,996 Joined: May 2, 07 ♂	Feb 3, 10, 17:10 #51
vtec2710: Brits won the battle of britain. Poles were only cleanning the planes, weren't they Harry? Do you actually have any contribution to make to this discussion? I can tell you right now, if you're only posting here to try to annoy me, you will fail as badly as the Polish armed forces did while trying to stop the three invastions of Poland during WWII.

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Edited by: vtec2710 Feb 3, 10, 17:26 #52

My goodness Harry are you planning an invasion???? :P

No I am not posting here to try to annoy you, I post here to stop this stupid discussion.
This is an appeal to Poles to stop proving the other nations their values.
English they only care about their own businesses, they USE the others to reach the target, and finally get all the glory.Same with americans.
Good example is the battle of britain.I do not care if you deny the role of Poles or no.For me there is a fact that brits do not like to share the glory.
Look at this :american scientists:
http://demotywatory.pl/839046/Amerykanscy-naukowcy

that is the best comment

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Feb 3, 10, 17:30 #53

Trevek:

I thought it was more because US weren't inmvolved in WW1 for the first 3 years or so, so many pilots couldn't fight as part of the US forces. Cooper actually joined the Polish airforce after WW1 to help fight the Bolsheviks.

Well, we're actually saying the same thing. Equivalent to the many Swedes joining the Finnish forces to help them against the Soviet invasion.

Thanks for clarification about Cooper's heritage.

time meansThreads: 9 Posts: 2,309 Joined: Apr 21, 08 ♂	Edited by: time means Feb 3, 10, 17:34 #54
vtec2710: Poles were only cleanning the planes, Indeed vtec, run along and get a bucket and sponge, theres a good man.

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Feb 3, 10, 17:36 #55

vtec2710:

English they only care about their own businesses, they USE the others to reach the target, and finally get all the glory.Same with americans.
Good example is the battle of britain.I do not care if you deny the role of Poles or no.For me there is a fact that brits do not like to share the glory.

Sorry but that's a nonsensical comment. That could be applied to any nation. Germany "used" Turks, Italians, etc. for their own glory. Japanese used the Germans, Russians used the Americans and the Brits, etc. Very selective "examples" for sure... You are using your current biases and dislikes to portray the past...

HarryThreads: 59 Posts: 7,996 Joined: May 2, 07 ♂	Edited by: Harry Feb 3, 10, 17:38 #56
vtec2710: For me there is a fact that brits do not like to share the glory. Really? Is that why the men of 303 squadron were invited to take part in the London Victory parade in spite of fact that the government of Poland did not want them to be there?

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Edited by: vtec2710 Feb 3, 10, 17:40 #57

skysoulmate:

You are using your current biases and dislikes to portray the past...

Not saying not.
But I have never seen or heard about the situation that any english would share the glory.Just denial and criticism.

harry:

fact that the government of Poland did not want them to be

what for?So the english would to give them the "mop and sponge of glory"?
According to you they did nothing, so why they would take precious playes of british RAF pilots.

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Feb 3, 10, 17:44 #58

vtec2710:

But I have never seen or heard about the situation that any english would share the glory.Just denial and criticism.

So address the issue of why every single nation which was on the allied side was invited to a victory parade in London in 1946. And why the four Polish RAF squadrons were the only non-Commonwealth/Empire units to be invited. And tell us what British forces were invited to the Warsaw victory parade.

vtec2710Threads: - Posts: 16 Joined: Feb 3, 10 ♂	Edited by: vtec2710 Feb 3, 10, 17:48 #59
My goodness Harry I do not want to offend you -that is why I will try not to answer to any of your post anymore.I just simply do not want to show my bad side. You have no basic historical knowledge.So any discussion with you is pointless.

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Edited by: Harry Feb 3, 10, 17:51 #60

vtec2710:

My goodness Harry I do not want to offend you -that is why I will try not to answer to any of your post anymore.I just simply do not want to show my bad side.

So you mean that your racist argument has just been blown out of the water by a healthy dose of facts and you are now going to slink back under the rock you came out from under. Good, that is very much for the best for everybody.

[edit to reply to vtec's edit]

vtec2710:

You have no basic historical knowledge.So any discussion with you is pointless.

But before you go you just have to try and chuck out some more insults. Fine go ahead. And then address the issue of why every single nation which was on the allied side was invited to a victory parade in London in 1946. And why the four Polish RAF squadrons were the only non-Commonwealth/Empire units to be invited.

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