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Did British public protest against the sell out of Poland to the Soviets?


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MyMomThreads: 9
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 Oct 2, 11, 12:11    #61

It's much easier than admitting that Poles (and nominally Catholic ones, at that) were the ones who kept Poland in captivity.

Communism would never have worked in Poland if it wasn't for the masses of ordinary collaborating Poles.


Your are the kind who would claim that Poles murdered themselves at Katyn, if it weren't for the movie.
No chance in hell any communists would rule in Poland if it weren't for the regular Red Army units and NKVD forces. It is true though that the enslavement of Poland took part in phases. After all the bloodsheds from 1939 onwards, there was simply not enough opposition left so that the Polish stalinists could pretty much rule without Russians in the later years of stalinism.

delphiandomineThreads: 42
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 Oct 2, 11, 12:13    #62
Your are the kind who would claim that Poles murdered themselves at Katyn, if it weren't for the movie.


Ah, gotta love the insults - you simply can't admit that Poles enslaved Poles, so instead, you choose to insult me. Typical.

No chance in hell any communists would rule in Poland if it weren't for the regular Red Army units and NKVD forces.


Of course not, but would they have managed to rule if Poles simply refused to work with the Communists?

As I said - there were a hell of a lot of people dependent on the Party - and they didn't object.
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 Oct 2, 11, 12:32    #63

Of course not, but would they have managed to rule if Poles simply refused to work with the Communists?

Yes. You are very naive, or simply antipolish, when you underestimate Stalin like that. Just look at who "Polish officers" in Ludowe Wojsko Polskie were - initially 67% of them were Russians and Jews. How many of those remaining Polish officers were there simply because they got an offer they couldn't refuse?
Would it make you happy if the number of Polish victims of Soviet occupation was even higher?
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Edited by: delphiandomine  Oct 2, 11, 12:58    #64
Yes. You are very naive, or simply antipolish, when you underestimate Stalin like that.

The fact remains that there were plenty of Poles who were perfectly happy to work with Stalin in the post WW2 era. I don't think it's any surprise that much of the Communist elite came from poor peasant backgrounds - people who saw their chance and seized it with both hands. They were Polish, nonetheless.

Just look at who "Polish officers" in Ludowe Wojsko Polskie were - initially 67% of them were Russians and Jews.

So 33% of them were Polish of presumably Catholic background. As I said - plenty of Poles were happy to go along with it.

How many of those remaining Polish officers were there simply because they got an offer they couldn't refuse?

Doesn't matter why they were there - they were still Polish, working for an enemy power to enslave their fellow countrymen.

Would it make you happy if the number of Polish victims of Soviet occupation was even higher?

What has that got to do with anything?

Don't forget, Poles killed Poles in most cases - not Russians or (gasp) Jews.
ShawnHThreads: 9
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Edited by: ShawnH  Oct 2, 11, 13:15    #65
delphiandomine:Communism would never have worked in Poland if it wasn't for the masses of ordinary collaborating Poles.

.....

who realized that....


delphiandomine: the reality on the ground was that the Russians were always going to be firmly in control


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 Oct 2, 11, 13:19    #66
Don't forget, Poles killed Poles in most cases - not Russians or (gasp) Jews.

Do you have any proof of that statement or is it yet another of your polonophobic BS, Michael? Although I like how you just confirmed what I suggested about you a post before.

The fact remains that there were plenty of Poles who were perfectly happy to work with Stalin in the post WW2 era. I don't think it's any surprise that much of the Communist elite came from poor peasant backgrounds - people who saw their chance and seized it with both hands. They were Polish, nonetheless.

How many? Care to prove your statement or yet another lie?

So 33% of them were Polish of presumably Catholic background. As I said - plenty of Poles were happy to go along with it.

So are you saying that plenty of Polish officers were happy to work for Stalin? Do you mind if I quote that statement of yours with your full name under it?

What has that got to do with anything?

That you would gladly accuse Poles of anything just because a majority of them survived both occupations. Well, even if all Poles were dead, you would still come up with some accusation, simply because the dead cannot defend themselves and thus are an easy target for a guy like you.
delphiandomineThreads: 42
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Edited by: delphiandomine  Oct 2, 11, 17:35    #67
Ah, let's just quote something...

Popiełuszko's murderers - Captain Grzegorz Piotrowski, Leszek Pękala, Waldemar Chmielewski and Colonel Adam Pietruszka

Poles were even at the level of murdering Polish priests. Sorry, but no matter how hard you try, it doesn't change the truth - Poles murdered Poles
IronsideThreads: 59
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 Oct 2, 11, 23:30    #68
If Britain had refused to negotiate about Poland without Polish representatives being there, that would have suited Stalin just fine:

Maybe but then maybe not.


unelected military junta you mean?

No, I mean Polish legal Government supported by all Polish politicians and party;s, opposition as well. Hell, PM Sikorski was before the war member of opposition n Poland.
study something else sometimes than a lotus flower.
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 Oct 3, 11, 13:37    #69
Ironsidemaybe not.

Maybe not? Yes, I can just see that conversation at the Yalta conference:
HMG representative: We demand that Polish government representatives be present while we discuss Poland.
Stalin: Not a problem, Osobka-Morawski is waiting outside.
IronsideThreads: 59
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 Oct 3, 11, 23:08    #70
Maybe not? Yes, I can just see that conversation at the Yalta conference:
HMG representative: We demand that Polish governmen

In other words that have been no much for Stalin eh? Poor retarded creatures the best Britain could muster, miracle they survived till now, hallelujah!
Ozi DanThreads: 22
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 Oct 4, 11, 07:45    #71
PWEI?

Why can't you learn that a lie constantly repeated does not become the truth: instead it simply is repeatedly exposed as a lie so that more and more people know that it is a lie.


Can someone tell me who this noob poster is please? He's carrying on like he has some issue with me. It's as though he's upset because I've owned him on several occasions in the past on this forum (viz Harry), but surely that can't be, because I've never communicated with this PWEI.

Could you please be so kind as to quote the parts of the relevant agreements which show that, given that the British and Americans had secured a promise from Stalin that there would be a Polish state and that there would be free and fair elections in Poland open to all parties other than the fascists, Poland’s independence was threatened. Either that or stop telling your latest pathetic lie.


I'd like to help you chief, but I just don't understand your question, as it makes no sense - i.e. it would be a strange agreement indeed that had parts showing independence being threatened. Perhaps rephrase it?

Actually, now I remember - there was an Aussie chap who called himself "Harry" on this forum (he hasn't been here in a while, having, one can only assume, exhausted himself online from a surfeit of self-important toast liberally smeared with lashings of figjam – or was that kebabs?) and we had some particularly interesting debates on this very topic some time ago. There's a wonderful feature on this site called "search" - you can look up our debates (yes, before you come back and say it, I know, I owned him in every genuine debate we had).

Which allied leader first proposed moving Poland’s borders to their current western location? Oh yes, it was General Władysław Sikorski.


Ah, we have a dilettante on Sikorski in our midst. Pray tell (as your knowledge on this would undoubtedly surpass mine), what was the rationale behind Sikorski's proposal here and what where the salient features of his proposal vis a vis how same could benefit Poland? Surely he didn't really mean to just give away parts of the Kresy with only a commensurate border shift to the West, as you imply? How did he go with putting this proposal to the Polish Govt in Exile? Did it ever progress beyond an ethereal pipe dream? Tally-ho, you’ve got some research to do…

But in your world Poland was unaware that her borders would change.


When, then, was Poland made aware of this, and by whom? If it was indeed HMG bearing the message in discharge of its obligations under Art. 5 of the Treaty in consequence of matters arising in respect of Teheran, then tarry not and send Harry a PM advising of same, as I'm sure he spent many a sleepless night fumbling through Wiki looking for this very same piece of evidence in rebuttal of my proposition.

Actually it is far simpler, it is as simple as can be; after all, what can be simpler than something which does not exist?


If this simply did not exist, then it is a simple matter to demonstrate that which existed, the existence of which would simply vindicate the rebuttal to the simple charge that HMG, simply put, betrayed Poland, when, to put it even more simply, a simple message of simplistic narrative, simplifying the simple outcomes of Teheran, simplistically delivered to the Poles, by simple minded people, was, to put it simply, never delivered. Simple no?


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